Best recording of Alkanīs "Comme Le Vente"?

[sevencircles]

This is a work for the true speed demons.

I am surprised that Hamelin, Libetta or Berezowski hasnīt recorded it yet.

Those guys seem to have some kind of show off competition going on.

Whatīs the best recording so far?

[stevie]

gibbons....ponti is fastest, but its a bit random.

noone has come close to the intended speed though.

[pabst]

im usually a ponti fan, but yes his rec of this is trashy. Gibbons I second

[cherub_rocker1979]

Jack Gibbons
Ronald Smith 2nd

[sevencircles]

noone has come close to the intended speed though.

Thatīs why I mentioned names like Hamelin and Libetta.

These guys seem to be only ones capable of playing it at the intended speed.

Could Alkan himself play it that fast?

[sevencircles]

Here is a link to a midi played at the intended speed

[https://www.kunstderfuge.com/_/etudes_39_1_%28c%29yogore.mid

If anyone can play it this fast without making a mistake he/she has to be the fastest pianist of all time there is no question about that.

[sevencircles]

The link didnīt work. Scroll down to Comme Le Vent on this page https://www.kunstderfuge.com/alkan.htm

[stevie]

Here is a link to a midi played at the intended speed

[https://www.kunstderfuge.com/_/etudes_39_1_%28c%29yogore.mid

If anyone can play it this fast without making a mistake he/she has to be the fastest pianist of all time there is no question about that.

maybe not, its difficult to tell what speeds are possible with this piece, because none of the giant techs have tackled it head on

[sevencircles]

maybe not, its difficult to tell what speeds are possible with this piece, because none of the giant techs have tackled it head on

We know what they are capable of when we listen  to recordings of other pieces.

I thinkīs we can say that neither Hamelin or Libetta could play that fast without making serious mistakes for instance.

[stevie]

comme le vent requires 16nps in one hand, extremely fast, but listen to recordings by them, listen to the scale at the end of wunder's and sokolov's winterwind etude, that goes around 20 notes a second per hand...

[maxy]

heh, Sokolov could probably do it, but I guess he is not interested in this piece.

[kreso]

heh, Sokolov could probably do it, but I guess he is not interested in this piece.

He is probably interested in real music, like Chopin, Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Schumann..
Not in Alkan!

[maxy]

He is probably interested in real music, like Chopin, Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Schumann..
Not in Alkan!

a bit harsh.

Alkan does provide real music.  Unfortunately, for each great moment... a pile of crap surrounds it.

[da jake]

He is probably interested in real music, like Chopin, Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Schumann..
Not in Alkan!

All the composers you mentioned composed their share of garbage. Liszt conatins more junk than Alkan.

Taste asside, no musicians doubt the merit of Festin D'Esope or the Symphony for Solo Piano. Simply put, Alkan ranks as one of the most important Romantic Era composers.

a bit harsh.

Alkan does provide real music.  Unfortunately, for each great moment... a pile of crap surrounds it.

Alkan wrote many pieces which are in perfect taste (including miniatures, chamber music, the Sonatine,  and the masterpieces mentioned above).

PS: Musically, Comme le Vent is a piece of trash. It compares to pieces like Grande Galope Chromatique, thus should probably not be put forward as a definitive example of the composer's art. 

[kreso]

All the composers you mentioned composed their share of garbage. Liszt conatins more junk than Alkan.

Taste asside, no musicians doubt the merit of Festin D'Esope or the Symphony for Solo Piano. Simply put, Alkan ranks as one of the most important Romantic Era composers.

Sorry, I didn't want to say that Alkan is not great composer, I like him also..
I just wanted to say that Sokolov and some people who have never heard for Alkan, are playing music which is, of course great-like the all composers that I mentioned, but they don't maybe think that also some other composers and their works are intereseting and beuatifull and they should very often in repertoire of today's pianists..

[panic]

I find this topic kind of ironic as 39/1 is by far the least substantial of the op. 39 etudes, although it does contain hints of compositional brilliance here and there. The comparison to Grand Galop is on the money.

[stevie]

its a really great and fun piece, not as profound as his other stuff, but very inspired and catchy, only fault is it can be a bit overlong in most existing recordings, though this is actually the performers fault for not playing it fast enough.

He is probably interested in real music, like Chopin, Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Schumann..
Not in Alkan!

*** off

[panic]

Take Brahms off that list. Past about op. 25 Alkan's music is many times more honest and real than Brahms, who just pulls the audience's emotional strings.

[practicingnow]

Take Brahms off that list. Past about op. 25 Alkan's music is many times more honest and real than Brahms, who just pulls the audience's emotional strings.

yikes
I fear for the future

[panic]

Bah. That came out wrong.

Here's what I meant, now that I can't change that idiotic comment of mine since it's been quoted. There's no doubt in my mind that Brahms has far more compositional talent than Alkan, what with his symphonies, chamber music, requiem and other choral and vocal works, and all the rest. But I find that in a lot of stuff he stages and arranges things too perfectly, to the extent that it sounds, well...sort of dishonest. If it's possible to be too musically eloquent, to the point of sounding a tad bit fake, Brahms is, in my opinion. His first movements adhere a bit TOO precisely and predictably to sonata-allegro form to the extent of sounding sort of self-indulgent. Musical thoughts are opened and closed too neatly. Passages flow too smoothly. It's all great music, but it doesn't sound like anything more than that, or very lifelike (to me personally). That's what led me to state that it sounds like pulling the audience's emotional strings.

Alkan has much less compositional ability than Brahms, of course, but he also sticks to simpler stuff, and often times he fails and his stuff comes out sounding fluffy e.g. 39/1. But when he succeeds, he moves you in unexpected and honest ways. Accents are oddly and austerely placed. Statements are rudely interrupted or wither away layer by layer into silence, to great effect. Or they surprise you with their simplicity of texture. I've never seen Brahms do that as well as Alkan. That's why I consider the best Alkan - and not everything after op. 25 as I regrettably said - to be more honest.

[sevencircles]

comme le vent requires 16nps in one hand, extremely fast, but listen to recordings by them, listen to the scale at the end of wunder's and sokolov's winterwind etude, that goes around 20 notes a second per hand...

Any online clip of Wunder or Sokolov playing the winterwind?

[stevie]

https://chubrik.com/mp3/Chopin/Chopin_Etude_Sokolov_23.mp3

the scale at the very end

[stevie]

well, if that doesnt work, just look around on the sites by chubrik

[pianorama]

Arrggh! It's not even in English! Is that Russian? I clicked on the link that was in English but it brought me to another Russian page without any English. What do I click on after that?

[tompilk]

Arrggh! It's not even in English! Is that Russian? I clicked on the link that was in English but it brought me to another Russian page without any English. What do I click on after that?

use the bottom of your browser to see the link names.. they are in english... the russian website is amazing though... loads of mp3s..
Tom

[daniel patschan]

Thatīs why I mentioned names like Hamelin and Libetta.

These guys seem to be only ones capable of playing it at the intended speed.

Could Alkan himself play it that fast?

Such a nonsense - i am for 100% sure that Kissin, Zimerman, Freire, Pollini, Pogorelich, Argerich, Glemser, Volodos, Pletnev, Petrov, Gavrilov, Frith, Ohlsson and Ogdon could play it at the same speed than Marc-Andre and Francesco. I can't stand these two names anymore. What did these guys (especially Libetta) substantially add to the history of great piano interpretations (Beethoven Opus 111, Diabelli-Var., Schubert 960, Goldberg-Var., WTC just to name a few) ? O.k., Hamelin did the whole Godowsky-Set brilliantly, he has a flawless mechanism in everything that he is playing, but: when it comes to the musical impact, to the ability to move people - he sounds as he looks: like a salesman for vacuum cleaners ! And Libetta is planning to record different pieces played in the style of famous pianists (e.g.: Lhevinne plays the HANON tremolo exercise) - o my god ! That's all he has to say ?!?

[da jake]

Though this isn't the thread to be discussing it, I think you're right about Hamelin. The more I listen to him, the more I realize what a fantastic pianist he is, but the more I also realize that he's not an original musician. True, his musicianship is very fine, and he does things with remarkable class, but I doubt we'd gain anything from his interpretation of Beethoven or Schubert Sonatas. That's why he has plays all that obscure repertoire. But still, it's to his credit for playing and recording all this music for us.

In my opinion, Pollini, Zimerman, Kissin are not better musicians either.

Libetta is totally overrated.

I'm sure Gavrilov, Sokolov, Hamelin, and dozens of others could play Comme Le Vent at the required speed.  Heck, I'm sure if Gould wanted to, he could have done a remarkable, crystal clear job of it.

[brahmsian]

  Heck, I'm sure if Gould wanted to, he could have done a remarkable, crystal clear job of it.

 

[da jake]

I believe that Gould had one of the best techniques of the 20th century. 

[brahmsian]

I believe that Gould had one of the best techniques of the 20th century. 

Agreed. His Moonlight 3rd is insane.

[steinwaymodeld]

I believe that Gould had one of the best techniques of the 20th century. 

Gould has CERTAIN best technique in 20th century.
There are aspect of certain tech he just falls apart. He is not as great of a technical pianist as Hamelin.

Libetta is not overrated imo, some of his Godowsky Chopin etude are even better than Hamelin (on technical level)

But I personally, think based on today's piano manufacturing technology, it's physically impossible for both the piano and the pianist to perform Comme Le Vent at the desired speed without compromising of notes (a simple repeat note argument will suffice, the hammer-damper action will allow repeat note to be played to a certain limit, and after that, no matter how GREAT of the technique of a pianist equips, it simply won't do.)

in the end, I do not consider Comme Le Vent one of the best Alkan piece, quite frankly it is musically dull. (76/3 has similar structure and motif but is way better written, so is the rest of the op.39 set)

[stevie]

u vil be proven WRONG, tym vil tell

[sevencircles]

[But I personally, think based on today's piano manufacturing technology, it's physically impossible for both the piano and the pianist to perform Comme Le Vent at the desired speed without compromising of notes (a simple repeat note argument will suffice, the hammer-damper action will allow repeat note to be played to a certain limit, and after that, no matter how GREAT of the technique of a pianist equips, it simply won't do.)

in the end, I do not consider Comme Le Vent one of the best Alkan piece, quite frankly it is musically dull. (76/3 has similar structure and motif but is way better written, so is the rest of the op.39 set)/quote]

I agree 100%

The ones who thought that Sokolovīs winterwind can be compared to Alkanspeed  Comme Le Vente in terms of technique Listen to the midi on the Kunstderfuge site and you can hear that it is a remarkable difference.

I did find Sokolovīs final scale very impressive though.