Childrens Learning Experience: Upright or Grand?

[tw2005]

I have an 11 year old son who plays piano (Grade5) & Clarinet (Grade5). He has been playing for apprx 3 years. His lessons are on a Yamaha C7. My son’s new tutor has insisted that we have a better piano at home with an action that is not too light.  I have done my research and settled on either a Yamaha U3 Upright or a Yamaha C3 Grand.

I am having difficulty choosing between the two particular models. The C3 (£11k) is pushing the boat out a bit and means taking out finance. It’s a big investment compared with the U3(£4.5k).

My concern is in relation to the long-term learning experience for my son and my desire to give him the opportunity to progress as much as he chooses or has the ability of, without unnecessarily going overboard on finances.

I am very interested in knowing what peoples experience or thoughts are about learning on an upright compared with a grand and visa versa. Also whether there any are differences that I should be aware of between the two models mentioned specifically related to a young student with grade 8 and beyond in mind

Any thoughts welcome and appreciated…

[aryantes]

My teacher told me that if I had to get a piano and couldn't afford a 'good' grand, then getting a cheaper grand is a better solution than getting a 'good' upright. This is important for the action.

Right now I'm learning on an upright ( although I've been playing for a lesser amount of time than your son ) and when I play on my teacher's grand it feels so much different. It is hard for me to do the same dynamics.

I plan on getting a grand soon, which one? not sure but I thought the C7 was nice, I do like the light action but learning on heavier action seems to be more beneficial in the long term ( but don't quote me on that ) hehe.

[leahcim]

I am having difficulty choosing between the two particular models. The C3 (£11k) is pushing the boat out a bit and means taking out finance. It’s a big investment compared with the U3(£4.5k).

I don't think he'll have any problems learning on a good upright or grand, but I guess the grand is the real thing.

When you say you're having difficulty, although he's 11, why isn't he picking the piano?
Does he like yamaha pianos, the sound, the action and if so, does he like those particular models?

Personally I would say don't stretch your budget to breaking point. There might be other things to spend the difference on later. Similarly, why buy new?

Supposing, for the sake of argument, what you [or he] would really want is a Bosendorfer or Steinway or whatever else, obviously the budget is through the roof, but why put yourself into debt unless it is for a dream, once in a lifetime piano purchase that he's picked himself and really wants? If that's the case for the Yamaha, fair enough, Valentino Rossi's had a successful career

Finance probably means you'll end up paying OTT for that grand in interest, which unless it is his ideal instrument seems doomed to lose you more money than necessary when you come to sell it to buy something else.

I doubt very much that a decent, well maintained 2nd hand grand or upright is going to make a jot of difference to how well he plays [You wouldn't pay 11 grand for one if they didn't last a few years after all] and you might have the cash. You might get a fair %age of the money back when the time comes to replace it. Moreso if he decides to focus on the clarinet, the guitar or the girl next door in a few years you won't have a grand piano you don't want / need.

So I'd say if you've got the budget to buy a decent well-maintained grand, new or 2nd hand get one, but if not, get a similar condition upright, but avoid finance unless it's absolutely necessary.

[lani]

My daughter played on a little Baldwin Acrosonic spinet for almost 5 years and reached a late intermediate level by the time she was 10 or 11.  She pretty much had outgrown it in a few years, but our budget was tight and she loved that little spinet. Finally after saving a few years, we were able to afford a pre-owned Baldwin Artist grand (M series) from our tuner.  It is a vintage piano, and we are very pleased with it both in looks and sound.  She realizes that it took hard work for us all to reach this goal, and is very appreciative of it.  Yes, a Steinway would have been nice, but we figure she can work towards that herself when she is older and if she is still playing!  She is only 13 now, but I would say her playing improved tremendously when she got her grand! Also, you might want to check out the piano.net site where a lot of people give recommendations and can tell you more about your prospective models. Good luck. Regards, Lani

[lagin]

Okay, here is my very biased opinion.

Grands are better because:

1.  They are easy to re-sell if you want to upgrade.

2.  VERY IMPORTANT! They have double action, meaning you can play the same note again and again and again without ever letting it come all the way back up.  Perfect for extremely quiet playing and for fast repeated notes.  Fast repeated notes will simply not sound on an upright when they get too fast.

3.  If your child ever wants to take exams, they will probably be on a grand.  At least they are where I live. 

4.  Way more dynamic range.  So your child can build more strength.  For example, if one of my students played a chord with all their strength on an upright and then I did after them, they would be pretty close in volume depending on the upright and size of student.  On a grand, I can't even get as loud as my teacher yet, and she's smaller than me!  Way more room to develop in that sense, IMO.  (This also depends on the size of the grand.  The bigger the piano, the more it's capable of).  Is the piano you are looking at very small?  Maybe an upright would be okay then, if it is.  Someone else would have to tell you if baby grands have that double action, because in my opinion, that's the most important part. 

The only regret I have with my grand is that I got one with a very light touch which is great at home, but makes it murder to play on my teacher's piano which has harder touch.  My legato thirds are not so hot then!!  I'll have to practice on her's closer to my exam in case the exam piano is harder too, which it probably will be.

By the way, may I recommend used pianos?  I got a 5'7 used Yamaha for $14,000 Canadian plus tax.  I'm no expert on this, but pianos seem to be like cars.  As soon as you so much as take them off the lot, they depreciate in value even before you play them.  At least, that's the impression I've gotten.  As your Yamaha dealer if they have any new "used" ones that they have been using for teaching in the back.  World of Music in Canada sometimes has almost new pianos with only a bit of teaching miles on them, for a few thousand less than brand spanking new.

[alzado]

Interesting thread!

A few thoughts . . . . . 

I learned and took lessons on a little Wurlitzer spinet -- it was a cute little piano, but perhaps about the "least" piano one could get.  My problem was not the piano, but a laziness and reluctance to practice.  I took lessons for about three years, and finally -- with much whining -- induced my parents to let me quit.    Now, decades later, I do have a nice grand.  It is not one of the premier brands, but is quite nice nonetheless.

While vacationing we met with a family for breakfast.  The mother told us proudly that her son of 8 years was studying piano, and that they had purchased for him a 7 foot Steinway.  I asked her if anyone else played in the house, and she said "no."   To me this is a bit extreme. 

As for the pianos themselves, I find the touch and action under my fingers to be satisfactory on the Yamaha upright I play for my lessons.  My grand's "touch" is not an improvement -- it's comparable but with a little different "feel."  I believe the upright is a bit "crisper" in the key action under my fingers.  The grand excels with richness of sound that's way beyond the upright.  I would have no difficulty playing any of my pieces on either piano.  I assure you, they would SOUND BETTER played on the grand.

Some of the comments made in this thread smack of the "theoretical."  People have read that a grand is "supposed to" do this or that, and rush to put that in a posting.  In truth, the capability of a top quality upright of today to support the playing of serious music is pretty much beyond question. 

As for firmer touch, and difficulty in pressing the keys, it is remarkable how strong one's hands become playing briskly for 1-1/2 to 2 hours per day, as I do.  My music teacher agrees -- one side effect of considerable piano playing is to strengthen the hands remarkably.  I suspect an ardent player would just take a few weeks to become familiar with a firmer touch, and from there on would have little awareness of it.


As for "grand versus upright" --        Remember, Chopin actually preferred Playel uprights when he could choose between an upright or a grand.

[kelly_kelly]

When you say you're having difficulty, although he's 11, why isn't he picking the piano?

I second that- I chose my piano when I was 11.

[nanabush]

I'm sad cuz I dont have space for a grand... my house has alot of rooms, just none are big enuf to situate a grand without removing adequate walking space.