Thinking of Entering A big comp

[jamie_liszt]

Hey

Hope this post doesnt sound stupid.. lol

I Am Currently at 7th grade (AMEB) And just turned 16, The problem is when i perform i sometimes hit wrong notes, or stop and look confused! stupid mistakes. When im 18 i would like to enter the 2008 sydney piano comp in australia... But i never see people in the chopin competition, sydney comp..etc make mistakes like me, wrong notes OR stopping, they never stop or look confused.... i know if i make one mistake or look confused or stop during a performance in the comp its an automatic failure and i lose.

During now and 2008 (through 2006 and 2007) what could i do to work my way up to those standards, maybe i just need to play more in public, or practise the songs more, i just dont know! the people like yundi li, martha argerich, ingolf wunder, never make big noticable mistakes, how do they do it, ARGH!!!!! I would be embarassed to stop in a performance at something that big.

If you are not 100% confident with your pieces you will play, should you still enter the comp and give it a try, and embarass yourself or wait another 4 years, i just want to hear peoples opinions, helpful tips, anything!

thanks

[zheer]

If you are grade 7 now i dont think you will be ready fo the big comp in 2 years time, they my not even let you play on their piano to be honest. Infact most of these guys are fully accomplished pianist, they just wont to be spoted.
Its like saying am almost black belt in Karate am i teady to fight Bruce Lee, the answer is nooooooooooooooooooooo.

[jamie_liszt]

Theres only 8 grades in AMEB, I'll be finished in a year.

[g_s_223]

But after the 8 AMEB grades there are two further diploma levels, namely AMusA and LMusA. I would expect all major competion entrants to be at least at AMusA level, and many, if not most, to be at LMusA level. I believe AMusA level itself is significantly more advanced than AMEB grade 8.

[zheer]

Theres only 8 grades in AMEB, I'll be finished in a year.

   Thats what am trying to say. Grade 8 piano is good achievment, but its miles behind these competators. Look if i enter these big piano comp i will end up in accidint and emergency at hospital, and i have been playing for years.

[arensky]

Hey

Hope this post doesnt sound stupid.. lol

I Am Currently at 7th grade (AMEB) And just turned 16, The problem is when i perform i sometimes hit wrong notes, or stop and look confused! stupid mistakes. When im 18 i would like to enter the 2008 sydney piano comp in australia... But i never see people in the chopin competition, sydney comp..etc make mistakes like me, wrong notes OR stopping, they never stop or look confused.... i know if i make one mistake or look confused or stop during a performance in the comp its an automatic failure and i lose.

During now and 2008 (through 2006 and 2007) what could i do to work my way up to those standards, maybe i just need to play more in public, or practise the songs more, i just dont know! the people like yundi li, martha argerich, ingolf wunder, never make big noticable mistakes, how do they do it, ARGH!!!!! I would be embarassed to stop in a performance at something that big.

If you are not 100% confident with your pieces you will play, should you still enter the comp and give it a try, and embarass yourself or wait another 4 years, i just want to hear peoples opinions, helpful tips, anything!

thanks

You should probably back up a step in your repertoire, do some short and easier pieces that you can play without stopping or screwing up in. It's like the person who took too big a a bite of the steak and in their enthusiasm choked on it. Take some smaller bites, and you won't choke. It's also important to make the demon feel at home, so he get's bored and leaves. The "demon" is the thing that makes you you screw up, the tiny flash of self doubt OR over confidence that makes you stumble or have a lapse in performance. Forcing him out will not work, he thrives on emotion and bad temper; he will use those against you and become stronger. Ignore him, or say "hello,won't you sit down, coffee, tea, cigarette"? In other words accept that you have failed in the past, and quietly resolve to do better, without getting excited. Don't know your levels system, but it seems you are already beyond that, in that you have realized the true nature of what is holding you up. So yeah fulfill your requirements, but if your level of difficulty right now is Chopin Ballades/Scherzi, do a Nocturne, perfectly. And do some short (less memory to deal with, NO CHOKING  )one page miniatures; I reccomend Schumann's Albumleaves, op.124, particularly the Fantasy Dance, #5 and #6 on the facing page. Or do some Kabalevsky kid pieces (not for performance!) , they are good music and will help you with this process. Oh and Bach 2 Part Inventions; they are right here for you to download, in a very clear and pure edition. As for competitions, give it a shot, why not? But first make the lapses stop, or you will be disapointed. You'll know when you are ready...remember don't FIGHT the demon!    Make friends with him, he will get bored when he sees he cannot get to you anymore. He may try to sneak up on you again but you will be stronger, and he will have to leave...

[cherub_rocker1979]

Hey

Hope this post doesnt sound stupid.. lol

I Am Currently at 7th grade (AMEB) And just turned 16, The problem is when i perform i sometimes hit wrong notes, or stop and look confused! stupid mistakes. When im 18 i would like to enter the 2008 sydney piano comp in australia... But i never see people in the chopin competition, sydney comp..etc make mistakes like me, wrong notes OR stopping, they never stop or look confused.... i know if i make one mistake or look confused or stop during a performance in the comp its an automatic failure and i lose.

During now and 2008 (through 2006 and 2007) what could i do to work my way up to those standards, maybe i just need to play more in public, or practise the songs more, i just dont know! the people like yundi li, martha argerich, ingolf wunder, never make big noticable mistakes, how do they do it, ARGH!!!!! I would be embarassed to stop in a performance at something that big.

If you are not 100% confident with your pieces you will play, should you still enter the comp and give it a try, and embarass yourself or wait another 4 years, i just want to hear peoples opinions, helpful tips, anything!

thanks

First of all, the worst thing you can do when you make a mistake is to stop, because then you made another mistake.  You need to stop calling piano works songs, they're not songs.  If you are not 100% confident with your music you are setting yourself up for failure, the pressure will tear you down.  You need a good teacher to guide you, we all do.

[jamie_liszt]

Yes i know stopping if you make a mistake is bad, its a bad  habit of mine lol.

Thanks guys for all your replies, i will work on some smaller pieces you mentioned arensky, i am going to try to perform infront of people more often, I wont enter the 2008 competition just because i am old enough, i wont rush into it (ill wait until 2012 or maybe later) until i am truly ready and have completed everything.

[brewtality]

2012 is more realistic, I doubt that you'd make it into the main field playing at Amus or Lmus level in 2008. Just look at the repetoire list from last yrs comp, most of those pieces are all way above Lmus.

[dmk]

Hey

Hope this post doesnt sound stupid.. lol

I Am Currently at 7th grade (AMEB) And just turned 16, The problem is when i perform i sometimes hit wrong notes, or stop and look confused! stupid mistakes. When im 18 i would like to enter the 2008 sydney piano comp in australia... But i never see people in the chopin competition, sydney comp..etc make mistakes like me, wrong notes OR stopping, they never stop or look confused.... i know if i make one mistake or look confused or stop during a performance in the comp its an automatic failure and i lose.

During now and 2008 (through 2006 and 2007) what could i do to work my way up to those standards, maybe i just need to play more in public, or practise the songs more, i just dont know! the people like yundi li, martha argerich, ingolf wunder, never make big noticable mistakes, how do they do it, ARGH!!!!! I would be embarassed to stop in a performance at something that big.

If you are not 100% confident with your pieces you will play, should you still enter the comp and give it a try, and embarass yourself or wait another 4 years, i just want to hear peoples opinions, helpful tips, anything!

thanks

Aussie James Moon (who withdrew after Stage 3 due to a hand injury) was 17 when he competed last year.  He completed his L Mus A in 2001 which would have made him around 13 or 14 depending on when he did it. 

You need to be able to play L Mus standard works in a way above L Mus standard way, to get an audition and get in.  The audition process is rigorous, I think they auditioned more the 250 people for last years competition in Europe, Japan, Russia, New Zealand and the United States.

Not every work played is of a higher order difficulty, but all works need to played to an incredibly high standard.

That should give you an idea of how good you need to be, good luck for auditioning in 2012 though!!! I would suggest you start studying and a well respected conservatorium under a well respected teacher.

good luck

dmk

[jamie_liszt]

im going to play for someone in the conservatorium in 1 week and i might be getting lessons from someone there hopefully!

thanks for all your replies..

[lostinidlewonder]

I would question why you want to try to get into the Sydney International Piano competition. If it is because you want to use it to project your piano career great, if it is just for fun or just for interest, that is ridiculous! That is what smaller competitions are for.

The class of pianists in any international competition is "usually" top notch and they all aspire to make careers (or already have one) with their piano. They are not in there to win a competition, they are there to use it to sling shot their career. The amount of music you have to play for they Sydney Competition is humongous  and also you have to prepare difficult selected pieces within a few months that they allocate you. So you cannot rely on years of experience with particular pieces, you have to also demonstrate that you can absorb tough music very quickly and play it at top level.

Mistakes slowly dissapear the more you work on a piece. And you can work on a piece forever, it never ends. The longer you lose contact with your piece, slowly mistakes will grow over it. I think of it like bacteria If you don't cover your food and store it it will go bad. Same with music, you leave it lying there it slowly rots away. Unfortunaly you will not get past auditions if you hit wrong notes, its just tough luck and thats how the adjudicators weed out the mediocre competitors from the reallllly serious ones. Serious competitors are not concerned about the notes anymore, they are concerned about he sound production.

You are grade 7 now, 2005, you will probably want to reach an equivalent of something like grade 14 before you enter international competition. I don't know the grade systems past the AMEB 8 really well (since there really isn't offically one), but if you go into competion with grade 8 pieces or a little bit harder, you are going to get squashed to bits by your competition. If someone say plays some incredible piano concert say....Carl Vines, and then you compare that to a delicate Mozart, you are going to get sqashed, unless your Mozart is legendary. If you try to get by with a simple Chopin Etude and someone pulls off an amazing Alkan Etude you might also get blown away. Or if you play a simpler Scriabin Etude.. say op2 no1 and your competition pulls off op65 you are going to get squashed.

You have to definatly consider difficulty in big competitions. It is like gymnastics, people want to see impressive stuff, not safe stuff. Safe stuff wont win it for you.

Finally I would think, go into the big competitions when you MUST go, NOT because you WANT to go. You get to a point where you have so much music memorised and mastered and your ability is really refined enough that you want to test it with competition, and reap rewards for a good result. You will feel extremly dissatisfied if you try to get into it and they are only rejected in the audition because you haven't reached your maximum potential.

[pianowelsh]

Competitions- thats your choice.  your problem is stopping or forgetting etc etc etc ec.  First you need to tell yourself  'I dont do that anymore' - because you can preempt a failure or a memory lapse and it becomes habitual.  This really needs to be avoided if you are atall serious about the piano.  You need to look at this positively and analytically. Ask yourself first is the reason I stop a) technical, b) Musical (dissatisfied with sound and 'have ' to stop), c) memory problem (just cant remember what comes next.  OR is it even just nerves - playing on a different piano in a strange setting etc (does it go right in practice place?).  99% of mistakes we make in performance are a result for lack of attention/care in practice.  ILLUSTRATION if you glue a planes wings on and they are a bit wobbly when its on the table then you pick it up and launch it, under pressure those wings will fly straight off and the plane will crash (possibly beyond repair) SO carefull preparation is the Key to a secure performance.  Mindless practice (when it becomes automatic) is dangerous. Because when you are under stress you have nothing to hold onto.  if you have a technical problem - dont gloss over it go to specifics and work it out and fix it - sooner the better.  Musical issues ie (i was really dissatisfied with that opening)  Hear it before you begin and in the practice room work at learning how it feels to physically recreate that sound you have in your mind.  When performing - dont surprise yourself by jumping into a piece THINK first (read notes from pianists bench - you could sit there a long time). c) Memory. Dont rely on repetition to remember the piece. Analyse it, take sections out and pick over it and get to grips with every note from a mechanical side of things.  Also know they sounds you are going to make in advance (singing helps here) Its usefull to play LH alone and sing the RH this helps me alot with harmonic changes because you dont think about your RH and you can concentrate on the LH.  Make reductions/mapping Play the piece through inblock chords or the major harmonies of the piece so you have a big structural plan in your mind.  Also practice the piece Line by Line and practice mentally jumping from line to line (pianistic acrobatics) so that if you do forget you can jump to the beginning of the next line. ALWAYS jump forward NEVER back and Do Not stop unless its totally beyond salvation.
I would personally not recommend taking a competition unless you can aquit yourself well - because for your sake it probably woulndt be helpfull.  What lostinwonder says about difficulty is true but you should consider that you must NEVER play something which is too difficult for you at competition - Everyone will see through this and it is likely to end in disaster.  Play what is comfortably your level.  Keep pushing your level up - YES but dont show the edge of what you can achieve in public - grow into the repertory first. You have plenty of time if you want to take a competition. Most big competitions cut off about 30 yrs old.  Can I recommend generally though that PEOPLE dont make competitions their goal but they make FIRST CLASS performances their goal - this is so much more important than the accolade of winning or placing in competitions. If you set a competition performance as your goal a competition performance is what you'll get (most of these are bland and perfect technically - but have a nervous quality to them and the programming is usually very boring and totally unsuited to the performer) Play what suits you well and for enjoyment with communication as your chief goal and who knows when you are ready to do a competition you may just scoop it???!

[danyal]

You have to definatly consider difficulty in big competitions. It is like gymnastics, people want to see impressive stuff, not safe stuff. Safe stuff wont win it for you.

I must disagree. Last year was our international competition here. The Unisa International. Apparently quite big internationally. A pianist by the name of Spencer Myer won it. He didnt really play an impressive show off program throughout. His semi-final round was filled with Debussy preludes and other rounds had works like Bach suites etc. His final round: He played Mozart 9 and Beethoven 4 against others playing Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, Chopin etc (all exceptionally well!) His win was because of his musicality and sound and as you say, legendary, performances of beautiful, well chosen repertoire rather than difficulty. He was up against 4 other Russians in the finals and won because of it. Another competitor played ALL the Transcendental Etudes as a set in the semi final round... and he got past her because of his musicality. (His technique was also incredibly up to scratch, dont get me wrong, it's just not all that matters in the musical world)

Do NOT, under any circumstances go if you are not ready and you know you're not. You have to be on an incredible polished standard of playing and music. If you are serious about becoming a pianist, you dont want to give yourself a bad name in the music world. Its tough enough as it is.

Pianists like Argerich, Zimerman etc always have incredible flawless performances because they have worked more and harder than most people would believe possible. Its the only way to perfection. And they would not dare ever walk onto a stage unprepared. Not even just a little bit unsure. They dont take chances on stage. (Or in their practising for that matter, everything is covered) Its suicide to do so.

You will know when you are ready to go. And its obvious that its not now. If you are serious about this, spend the next few YEARS on steady, consciencious, hard and proper practise. If this is your dream, dont let it go, just work to reach it.

[brewtality]

I must disagree. Last year was our international competition here. The Unisa International. Apparently quite big internationally. A pianist by the name of Spencer Myer won it. He didnt really play an impressive show off program throughout. His semi-final round was filled with Debussy preludes and other rounds had works like Bach suites etc. His final round: He played Mozart 9 and Beethoven 4 against others playing Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, Chopin etc (all exceptionally well!) His win was because of his musicality and sound and as you say, legendary, performances of beautiful, well chosen repertoire rather than difficulty. He was up against 4 other Russians in the finals and won because of it. Another competitor played ALL the Transcendental Etudes as a set in the semi final round... and he got past her because of his musicality. (His technique was also incredibly up to scratch, dont get me wrong, it's just not all that matters in the musical world)

He entered the Sydney comp last year but didn't make it to the finals. So perhaps the jury's criteria differs from competition to competition? The sydney comp is not my favourite as there are so many repetoire restrictions. Perhaps the original poster should consider entering something else.

[dmk]

I must disagree. Last year was our international competition here. The Unisa International. Apparently quite big internationally. A pianist by the name of Spencer Myer won it. He didnt really play an impressive show off program throughout. His semi-final round was filled with Debussy preludes and other rounds had works like Bach suites etc. His final round: He played Mozart 9 and Beethoven 4 against others playing Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, Chopin etc (all exceptionally well!) His win was because of his musicality and sound and as you say, legendary, performances of beautiful, well chosen repertoire rather than difficulty. He was up against 4 other Russians in the finals and won because of it. Another competitor played ALL the Transcendental Etudes as a set in the semi final round... and he got past her because of his musicality. (His technique was also incredibly up to scratch, dont get me wrong, it's just not all that matters in the musical world)

Do NOT, under any circumstances go if you are not ready and you know you're not. You have to be on an incredible polished standard of playing and music. If you are serious about becoming a pianist, you dont want to give yourself a bad name in the music world. Its tough enough as it is.

I agree that you need to be able to pull off some big flashy works particularly with the concerto rounds (not always though...) but look at the programs from the three Sydney International place getters...there is some pretty delicate stuff in here (Brahms Romance, Schubert Bb impromptu, Tchiakovsky Meditation, Gluck/Sgambatti Melodie...)combined with your large virtuoistic works...I think good balance is way more important

JOHN CHEN
NEW ZEALAND
10.6.86 - Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

STAGE I RECITAL
Chopin Etude Op 10 No 1 in C Major
Ravel Gaspard de la Nuit 'Ondine'
Bartok Sonata (1926)

STAGE II RECITAL
Debussy Prelude Book II No.12 'Feux d'artifice'
Schubert Impromptu Op 142 No 3 in B Flat Major
Balakirev Islamey (Oriental Fantasy)

STAGE III RECITAL - QUARTER FINALS
Mozart Sonata KV 284 in D Major
Ravel Gaspard de la nuit 'Scarbo'
Brahms Romance Op 118 No 5 in F Major
Brahms Rhapsody Op 119 No 4 in E Flat Major
Gordon Kerry Figured in the Drift of Stars

STAGE IV RECITAL - SEMI FINALS
Beethoven Sonata Op 31 No 3 in E Flat Major
Chopin Sonata No 3 Op 58 in b minor

CHAMBER MUSIC
Ravel Piano Trio in a minor

STAGE V TWO CONCERTOS FINALS
Mozart Concerto KV 453 in G Major
Rachmaninov Concerto No 3 Op 30 in d minor

REM URASIN
RUSSIA

15.5.76 Kazan, Russia

PROGRAM

STAGE I RECITAL
Chopin Etude Op 25 No 6 in g sharp minor
Tchaikovsky Meditation Op 72 No 5
Liszt Mephisto Waltz No 1

STAGE II RECITAL
Debussy Prelude Book II No 7 'La terrasse des audiences du clair de lune'
Chopin Polonaise Op 44 in f sharp minor
Rachmaninov Etudes Tableaux Op 39 No 6 and No 9

STAGE III RECITAL - QUARTER FINALS
Mozart Sonata KV 576 in D Major
Scriabin Fantasie Op 28 in b minor
Tchaikovsky/Pletnev Nutcracker Suite - Seven pieces
Gordon Kerry Figured in the Drift of Stars

STAGE IV RECITAL - SEMI FINALS
Beethoven Sonata Op 110 in A Flat Major
Chopin Four Mazurkas Op 24
Chopin Sonata No 3 Op 58 in b minor

CHAMBER MUSIC
Shostakovich Piano Trio Op 67 in e minor

STAGE V TWO CONCERTOS - FINALS
Mozart Concerto KV491 in c minor
Tchaikovsky Concerto No 1 Op 23 in b flat minor

DANIEL HILL
AUSTRALIA

8.1.81 Melbourne, Australia
PROGRAM

STAGE I RECITAL
Rachmaninov Etudes Tableaux Op 39 No 5 in e flat minor
Gluck/Scrambati Mélodie
Chopin Ballade No 1 Op 23 in g minor

STAGE II RECITAL
Debussy Prelude Book I No.3 'Le vent dans la plaine'
Beethoven Six Variations Op 34
Schumann Toccata Op 7

STAGE III RECITAL - QUARTER FINALS
Mozart Sonata KV 282 in E Flat Major
Schumann Symphonic Etudes Op 13
Gordon Kerry Figured in the Drift of Stars

STAGE IV RECITAL - SEMI FINALS
Beethoven Sonata Op 27 No 1 in E Flat Major
Franck Prelude Chorale and Fugue
Rachmaninov Five Etudes Tableaux Op 39 Nos 1, 2, 6, 7, & 9

CHAMBER MUSIC
Shostakovich Piano Trio Op 67 in e minor

STAGE V TWO CONCERTOS - FINALS
Mozart Concerto KV 595 in B Flat Major
Prokofiev Concerto No 2 Op 16 in g minor

[jamie_liszt]

ARGH I cant believe i didnt see John chens chopin sonata op 58 b minor and chopin etude op 10 no 1!!!

[lostinidlewonder]

The Unisa International. Apparently quite big internationally. A pianist by the name of Spencer Myer won it. He didnt really play an impressive show off program throughout. His semi-final round was filled with Debussy preludes and other rounds had works like Bach suites etc. His final round: He played Mozart 9 and Beethoven 4 against others playing Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, Chopin etc (all exceptionally well!) His win was because of his musicality and sound and as you say, legendary, performances of beautiful, well chosen repertoire rather than difficulty.

I am often misunderstood on here so I'll have to clarify what I meant. I said you have to CONSIDER difficulty. Why? Simply because when playing in big competition you need to present listeners with all the types of sound that the piano can produce. If you play something safe you are not extending the piano to its limits. Yes you can win with easier repetoire and there of course should be a balance, it is stupid to make every piece you play insane and difficult, the competition requirements would not allow it. Most competitions expect you to play a Beethoven Sonata or a Bach Prelude and Fugue, so in that case what you play does not have to be so supremely difficult. However when you are "neck and neck" with your competitor and they pull of something more "difficult" that yourself, that can determine if you win or not.

The fact is you must have SOME exceptionally hard pieces in your competition repetoire, you WILL NOT SURVIVE if you do not have any to compete with.

Gordon Kerry Figured in the Drift of Stars was a set peice by the competion that everyone who got to that stage of the competition had to play. It is an annoying and very difficult piece!

[brewtality]

Gordon Kerry Figured in the Drift of Stars was a set peice by the competion that everyone who got to that stage of the competition had to play. It is an annoying and very difficult piece!

Not exactly, they had a choice between that work and Broadstock's Tower of Strength.

[dmk]

I am often misunderstood on here so I'll have to clarify what I meant. I said you have to CONSIDER difficulty. Why? Simply because when playing in big competition you need to present listeners with all the types of sound that the piano can produce. If you play something safe you are not extending the piano to its limits. Yes you can win with easier repetoire and there of course should be a balance, it is stupid to make every piece you play insane and difficult, the competition requirements would not allow it. Most competitions expect you to play a Beethoven Sonata or a Bach Prelude and Fugue, so in that case what you play does not have to be so supremely difficult. However when you are "neck and neck" with your competitor and they pull of something more "difficult" that yourself, that can determine if you win or not.

The fact is you must have SOME exceptionally hard pieces in your competition repetoire, you WILL NOT SURVIVE if you do not have any to compete with.

Gordon Kerry Figured in the Drift of Stars was a set peice by the competion that everyone who got to that stage of the competition had to play. It is an annoying and very difficult piece!

Totally agree..

BTW I play that Kerry and it is a real dog to learn and memorize, it amazes me how well all those talented young pianists did (though some of the performances were less than admirable).  There were two set pieces, the other was Brenton Broadstock's Torre di Forza I think it was selected by quite a few competitors but I think (if my memory serves me right and it could very well be wrong!!) that only 2 or 3 competitors who made it to the quarters had actually selected it (one of which was Spencer Myer!)

[lostinidlewonder]

Oops my careless writing again gets my mistake pointed out. There was a set piece from Gordon Kerry and Broadstock. Eitherway my point that you have to play hard pieces is highlighted. If you are not way past your grade 8 you have no hope learning and memorising these tough pieces in such a brief time.

[jamie_liszt]

where did you find the repetoire for John Chen and Rem Urasin! ?

[brewtality]

where did you find the repetoire for John Chen and Rem Urasin! ?

She probably still has the programme notes from last year, I still have mine too. All but one or two of the participants chose the Kerry piece.

[dmk]

She probably still has the programme notes from last year, I still have mine too. All but one or two of the participants chose the Kerry piece.

Why do you assume I am a she...although you are right!!! I often wonder why i assume certain pf members are a specific gender!!!

I do still have my program notes but i got these from

www.abc.net.au/classic/sipca

cheers

dmk

[brewtality]

Why do you assume I am a she...although you are right!!! I often wonder why i assume certain pf members are a specific gender!!!

I didn't assume anything, I remember you mentioning that you are "a sydney girl".
Yes, I have a good memory for useless information.

[dmk]

I didn't assume anything, I remember you mentioning that you are "a sydney girl".
Yes, I have a good memory for useless information.

Jeez....i thought I had a good memory....you and your pet bunyips have a way better one than mine!

[Dazzer]

omg james moon is way overhyped... hand injury... pffft what crap.

he won minor comps by fudging his age and entering groups under his age group, from what i heard.

[dmk]

omg james moon is way overhyped... hand injury... pffft what crap.

he won minor comps by fudging his age and entering groups under his age group, from what i heard.

Hand injury was what was publically reported...to be honest I have no idea what he was like in this competition I never saw him play.

Have seen him play in heaps of other minor comps though...not sure about fudging his age  He has won plenty of stuff playing well above his age bracket but you always get that in Australian comps....very 'name' based

dmk