Rachmaninoff's hand span

[Bob]

Anyone know exactly what it was?

And have a source to cite?

Thanks

[jamie_liszt]

Hmm i heard somewhere he could stretch like from C to A (13th) but im not 100% sure, i seen it on a website somewhere, not sure if its true!

ill post up a website with it if i find it..

[Bob]

I'm looking for something authentic, researched, as concrete and verifiable as possible --> scholarly.

[jamie_liszt]

Big Libraries usually have alot of books about composers, you could get one with rachmaninov in it, it would have alot of information and probably his hand span, would be better then a website you cant trust..

[perfect_pitch]

Rachmaninoff had huge hands and could reach a 12th...  C - G'.

Thats factual knowledge.

[steve jones]

To be fair, a 12th isnt THAT big. I know loads of people (non musicians) that I reckon could reach that.

I have a black friend who does have HOOOOGE hands. I reckon he could piss a 13th.

[thalbergmad]

According to the Guiness Book of Musical records, Rach could play a left hand chord of C E Flat G C G. It is one thing to play a 12th but another thing to play a 5 finger chord.

I would suggest therefore that he could play a 13th.

[steve jones]

According to the Guiness Book of Musical records, Rach could play a left hand chord of C E Flat G C G. It is one thing to play a 12th but another thing to play a 5 finger chord.

I would suggest therefore that he could play a 13th.

Thats very true. Reaching an interval, and playing three voices between said interval are VERY different things.

[zheer]

According to the Guiness Book of Musical records, Rach could play a left hand chord of C E Flat G C G. It is one thing to play a 12th but another thing to play a 5 finger chord.

I would suggest therefore that he could play a 13th.

Am not too far from the world record.            Check this out       C + Eflat + G + C + E and F.
And i have small hands.

[steve jones]

zheer,

How can you have small hands if you can reach that chord? I assume you are jesting, right?

[thalbergmad]

Am not too far from the world record.            Check this out       C + Eflat + G + C + E and F.
And i have small hands.

Henselt could reach this chord and he had small hands too.

Apparantly they were very elastic.

[zheer]

zheer,

How can you have small hands if you can reach that chord? I assume you are jesting, right?

No really i have small thin hands, i can reach that chord with my left hand because am double jointed.

[steve jones]

Shoot, you must be!

My hands are pretty average. I can reach most chords Iv encountered, but whether I could hit them in a pieces is quite another question. The only way I could play that C-F chord would be if I broke all of my fingers!

[kaveh]

On a related note-

Is there documented evidence of Chopin's hand size/span??

I saw a photo of a plaster cast of his hands inside the front cover of a Chopin anthology, and they look eerily similar to mine.

[thalbergmad]

I don't think he had a large span.

He once complained that Thalberg took 10th's easier than he could take octaves.

I read an article on one of his concerts once. The writer said his hands were very elastic and would suddenly expand and cover half the piano.

[zheer]

I don't think he had a large span.

He once complained that Thalberg took 10th's easier than he could take octaves.

I read an article on one of his concerts once. The writer said his hands were very elastic and would suddenly expand and cover half the piano.

Thanks for that.

[kaveh]

That's exacly the picture I was talking about.

[steve jones]

I believe that Chopin had small, but particularly flexible hands (and wrists). Infact, it seems much of his 'stretchy' music is more an exercise of the wrist than of the hand itself (like Etude 1, Op 10).

Rachmaninov on the other hand (no pun intended) makes me want to cry! His music is above my level at the moment, but Iv looked at a few of his scores - some of the chords look crazy!

But purely out of curiosity, I would love to compare hands with some of the greats.

[Jacey1973]

I remember finding this web page (someone may have given the link on this website - but i can't find this site anymore  ), where there were pictures of the casts of Beethoven's and Chopin's hands:



I'm not sure which is which but reckon Beethoven's on the left and Chopin's on the right - because i remember reading this book written by Edwin Fischer on the Beethoven piano sonatas once and he said how people with "short stubby fingers" and "fleshy hands" were more suited to playing Beethoven - as his own hands were like this and people with "long, slender fingers", were more suited to playing more fiddly music like Chopin's - as he had hands like this. I'm not sure if i'd agree with that though!

and Rachmaninov's:



Just thought i'd post them!

[stevie]

pianos had smaller keys back in chopin's time, things were easier, and he probably would find it extremely difficult, and even impossible in some cases, to play his own music on a modern piano.

[etudes]

According to the Guiness Book of Musical records, Rach could play a left hand chord of C E Flat G C G. It is one thing to play a 12th but another thing to play a 5 finger chord.

I would suggest therefore that he could play a 13th.

to be honest i can take C Eb G C G with my LH (not RH)!

[steve jones]

"An upright made by Hawkins in 1803 had a five and a half octave keyboard F to F octave span, 158 mm, and no pedals, just knee stops. Muller's upright of the same period had five octaves running from first octave E. Between 1803 and 1816 Beethoven owned an Erard which allowed him to reach from sixth octave F to seventh octave C."

https://www.uk-piano.org/history/compass.html


By the sounds of that, old Beethoven would probably give Rach a run for this money! Unless Im very much mistaken that is a 12th, is it not? I know its slightly smaller keys than today, but only a few mil.

[jas]

I don't know what his handspan is, but there's a theory that he may have had Marfan's syndrome (some think Paganini had it, too). It's in Geoffrey Norris's "Rachmaninoff" from the Master Musicians series.

Jas

[amelialw]

probably they were fairly big, look at his preludes they are barely suited to people with small hands! The only ones that are fine for me are Op.32 No5 and 12.

[thalberg]

My hands are big.  And flexible.

[cmg]

My hands are big.  And flexible.

You tell 'em, blintz.

[thalberg]

You tell 'em, blintz.

LOL....I'll have to take a picture.

[gerry]

There was a story floating around years ago that audience members would note that Horowitz, when taking a bow, would set his left hand on the piano above the keyboard so that the fingers would drape over the "Steinway" logo. I'm sure you readers will run to your Steinways and measure whether or not this was possible--perhaps this is just one of those urban legends. On the Bosey, the logo is about 10" below the top edge.

[jlh]

I've only ever heard he is in the Guiness Book of World Records from this forum...  I went to their website and did a search of Rachmaninoff and Rachmaninov and found nothing.  Where is the proof of this?

[amelialw]

I doubt there was even a Guiness Book of World Records at that time

[sevencircles]

I've only ever heard he is in the Guiness Book of World Records from this forum...  I went to their website and did a search of Rachmaninoff and Rachmaninov and found nothing.  Where is the proof of this?

I have a Guiness book from the early nineties and it said that Rachmaninov could reach C, Eb,G and C and G(12:th) with his left hand alone

They said it was a world record but I can guarantee that the worlds tallest man can beat that easily

[furtwaengler]

I've always had a fascination with the worlds tallest man, Robert Pershing Wadlow. I can't find the info on the site, but I remember reading somewhere that the distance between the tip of his index finger and his wrist was over 13 inches. This site has a video about him as well as some pictures and some info. They do mention his hands:

https://www.maniacworld.com/worlds_tallest_man.htm

He was nearly 9 feet tall, and it's really a sad story.

[bach_rach_and_roll]

Ah, the Rach argument to end all Rach arguments... awhile ago, someone said they are double jointed and for that reason they could reach a larger span, close to Rach's. Someone else said Beethoven's hands were stubby with fleshy hands... the first statement I challenge: every one of my fingers and both of my thumbs are double jointed and I can barely span a 9th with that added advantage. I find that when I play octaves with harmonic voices within (like a simple triad with the octave added) repeatedly (for example, if I read through any of Rach's pieces) my fingers get stuck in their double jointed positions and become extremely painful. As for the Beethoven comment... this explains why his music is easy for me. Being very Russian, I have peasant-stock hands with stubby fingers and fleshy palms... they look a lot like that cast, actually. However, I still have to drop notes from some of his pieces and when I play through Appassionata or the third movement of the Moonlight alone, I have the same problems I get with Rach's music: painful double joints.

I'd like to know how the other double jointed one manages to use it to his advantage instead of experiencing the pain I do (I can only practice my repertoire for 45 minutes at a time to avoid injury)

[gyzzzmo]

According to the Guiness Book of Musical records, Rach could play a left hand chord of C E Flat G C G. It is one thing to play a 12th but another thing to play a 5 finger chord.

I would suggest therefore that he could play a 13th.

I myself can play C E G C F (or touch that G but messing the chord) and dont have that big hands. More a matter of stretch i suppose. I dont think Rachmaninov's hands were that extreme.

[birba]

I don't care what anyone says.  You have larger then normal hands.

[gyzzzmo]

I don't care what anyone says.  You have larger then normal hands.

Maybe, i'm 1,91 tall and i suppose thats also taller than average, but still people are insinuating that rachmaninov had extreme stretch/hands, wich isnt true. I actually know quite a few musicians who can reach that C-G.

[littletune]

I myself can play C E G C F (or touch that G but messing the chord) and dont have that big hands. More a matter of stretch i suppose. I dont think Rachmaninov's hands were that extreme.

well sorry for a stupid question    but does that mean you play all those notes at the same time?  or one after another? 

[gyzzzmo]

well sorry for a stupid question    but does that mean you play all those notes at the same time?   or one after another?  

at   the same time   (without blurring other notes ofcourse)

[wert718]

I actually know quite a few musicians who can reach that C-G.

I'm 5'10 and can reach the C-G chord too. 

[littletune]

well that's really A LOT!!!!!  I'm sure I won't ever be able to reach that!!    even though I have really long fingers!  oh well 
(i wonder how much you're supposed to reach at 11 or 12  )

[gyzzzmo]

well that's really A LOT!!!!!  I'm sure I won't ever be able to reach that!!    even though I have really long fingers!  oh well 
(i wonder how much you're supposed to reach at 11 or 12  )

Stretch is most important i think. If i stretch my hand, my thumb and pinky are on one line wich causes me to have a relatively wide reach. People with long fingers but with small hands and not that stretch cant get that far i suppose.

[wert718]

Stretch is most important i think.

Quite right. I can reach a ninth with my first and second fingers.

[birba]

OMG!

[littletune]

Stretch is most important i think. If i stretch my hand, my thumb and pinky are on one line wich causes me to have a relatively wide reach. People with long fingers but with small hands and not that stretch cant get that far i suppose.

I can stretch my hand so that my thumb and pinky are on one line too other people can't do that? and also my thumb and all other fingers can be on one line but my pinky is kinda short all other fingers are long but my pinky is short, looks funny 

[thalbergmad]

Quite right. I can reach a ninth with my first and second fingers.

So could I, but i would have to cut them off first.

That is pretty massive Wert.

Thal

[littletune]

But I can reach almost the same with my first and second finger as with my first and fifth finger (or  third or 4th one) that's about an octave, except with first and second finger it's kinda hard not to press the keys next to the ones I want to press  and with my first and 5th finger I can kinda reach one more than an octave (that's a ninth right?  ) but it's hard not to press other keys (next to the ones I want to press). Sooo maybe in a few years I'll reach a ninth with my first and second finger too      and with others a tenth or something 

[go12_3]

Quite right. I can reach a ninth with my first and second fingers.

You mean actually a 9th with your first and second fingers....?   

[gyzzzmo]

You mean actually a 9th with your first and second fingers....?   

I can hit the tenth with thumb and second finger although i'd press the 9th too
Cant say thats really useful for playing the piano though.

[birba]

I think we have a couple of freaks from the side show here. 

[littletune]

I can hit the tenth with thumb and second finger although i'd press the 9th too
Cant say thats really useful for playing the piano though.

Well yes I can hit an octave with my thumb and second finger but I usually press the 7th (or how is it called) too  but in a few years...  I'll be maybe a freak from the side show too