Brahms Quintet

[crazy for ivan moravec]

hi everyone!

i'm learning the piano part of the brahms quintet..

i'd like to solicit from you some tips that you may generously share...
what are some impt things to remember in playing chamber music, esp this quintet? (tips on both ensemble playing and musical ideas are most welcome)

i've done chamber music like franck violin sonata and some mozart, sibelius before. but it's my first time to be doing a quintet... i'm a little anxious to meet my string players next month... coz i have little idea as to what to work on.

[g_s_223]

Heh, respect! This is a colossal piece - one of the most demanding in the repertoire.

Anyway, think about the following.

- Don't swamp the players with your sound, they need to hear themselves to play in tune properly. So, go easy on the sustaining pedal.

- It's better to have the lid up than down, as this gives the best sound, but play with appropriately given this power you have.

- Respect the p/pp/ppp markings. String players hate piano "thumpers" who never play quietly.

- Respect the many, many staccato markings.

- Count! Especially in rests. The ensemble may fall apart if you (or they) pull around too much.

- Also, try checking yourself against a metronome over long stretches of the piece.

- Do you have a page turner? You have many awkward page turns and these cannot get in the way of the music.

- Who is leading, i.e. setting the tempi at the start of each movement? You or the first violinist?

- Have the piano in a good state of tune (A=440) and good playing condition

Enjoy!

P.S. There is a version of this piece for two pianos, known as Op.34b - worth looking at some other time if you like the work and can find another excellent pianist.

[crazy for ivan moravec]

thank u, thank u! those are great tips! wonderful.. i will surely remember everything you said (hopefully).

  crazy

[g_s_223]

Thanks, some more tips.

- You should identify the small number of key climactic structural points in the four movements. Although I have emphasised playing quietly, at these climactic points you should indeed unleash the full power of the concert grand. Brahms would have wanted that, and it is irritating for the audience if the pianist always plays down.

- Listen to a recording of that other version, Op.34b, as it will give you some further insights into the piece.

- Listen to a recording of Schumann's Piano Quintet, Op.44. Brahms would have known this work due to his close relationship with the Schumanns. In fact, he probably played it himself several times as pianist. Thus it was probably an influence on his scoring of the piece.

- You need to know your part extremely well. If you don't, you won't be able to devote the necessary attention to listening to the quartet.

How are you finding the piano writing? I tried it, and I thought it was formidably difficult when taken as a whole, not far off the level of the 2nd Piano Concerto in Bb.

Good luck!

[crazy for ivan moravec]

yeah thanks again. i noticed the climactic points (i always look for these). i love the 2nd movement's measure 106 and goes on... or measure 98.

i have the guarneri and rubinstein which also includes the schumann. they're great! i'll check with our library if they have the other version.

i'm working on my part, memorizing it to the point like it was as if a solo work. but i try to practice with score even though im memorzing it. im anticipating myself listening more to the quartet in our first rehearsals, so im really perfecting all my parts. (yikes)

i think it's far off from the 2nd concerto. the 2nd concerto is extremely difficult to play. this has fewer notes, although it's a bit more transparent than the concerto. i even thought i'd have problems learning the scherzo, but it was actually easy to learn. but i don't know how it would become difficult when the time comes for me to play with the quartet. i'm starting with the 4th movement which i think is the hardest of them all.

thanks again! i'll let you know the outcome of our rehearsals.

all the best!

crazy

[crazy for ivan moravec]

hi guys!!! sorry for digging up an old thread.

i finally had my first rehearsal with the quartet today! WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they were great and i never felt tired with the 3 hours we had because we had a great time working on it (first and second movement only). my teacher knows the work extremely well, having worked with the best quartets (like takacs), together with his numerous experiences with this work in all 37 competitions he joined. it was the first time that i actually agreed with my teacher's coaching 100%. (usually, 50% i don't agree with him in lessons).

ensemble wise, we had only quite a few problems (but we dealt with them so seriously). but we surprisingly had very good contact in our first rehearsal... and just to add that i didn't get them as a group. actually each of them had his/her own chamber group.

i thanked myself for doing my own job really well (everybody clap please.. hehe) working on the piano part because i realized that playing with the quartet for the first time can rattle you, and make you commit mistakes.. i wasn't note-perfect though, but because i knew where i was, i never got lost with time even if i messed up my part sometimes. gosh, there was no time to even look at the score, and when i had to, it was just to look at their parts!

and so, a lot our musical problems were properly dealt with bcoz we didn't have problems with the ensemble.

im so grateful to the person who referred me to these great string players. they were so professional, and yet, the oldest among us was only 26 years old, others being 18, 21 and 24.. me 22.

some problematic areas:


1ST MOVEMENT:

measure 4 == i was hesitant with the tempo of my 16ths because i got bothered by the thought that they might not catch their entrance. my mistake: under estimating the players... but that was the opening, so forgive me coz it was just the beginning. eventually, i relied on them so much.

measure 17 == i rushed on this part. had to correct it.

measure 57 == quite tricky ensemble with the viola, and later with the cello.

measure 162 == the cellist had a problem with his counting, hehe, numerous measures of all repeated notes.

measures 184-190 == haha, the writing of the piano part pisses me off.

measure 279+  == little tricky accelerando.


2ND MOVEMENT:

mostly tempo problems, finding the "middle of the road" was difficult because there are lots of push and pulling in this movement. the portato 16ths were the solution to this problem.

the strings players were all great at their individual expressive moments! this movement tested my pp playing abilities to the max (together with articulations)!

---------------------------------------------

sorry for the long post. i just needed to let my joy out! it was a great a experience! im already dying to meet them for the 2nd rehearsal for the 3rd and 4th movements!!! (2 weeks from now)

they're excited as well. the instant connection of the whole group caught us all by surprise.

i do hope everyone of us here gets to experience this too. such a wonderful feeling!

btw, this is my first time to play a quintet. i've had chamber music before, a Mozart trio and a also duo, the Franck A major sonata with a violinist, and of course, some 4 hands and 2 pianos. i guess it's quite a leap, so im being really extra alert with my playing.

all the best!!! till the next rehearsal...

[pianistimo]

sounds harder than soloing - but with a group such as yours - it must be fun! 

[crazy for ivan moravec]

actually, it's a different kind of difficulty.

soloing is really difficult. the quintet is, too, but more on some other aspects.

[crazy for ivan moravec]

- You need to know your part extremely well. If you don't, you won't be able to devote the necessary attention to listening to the quartet.

it was nice of you to remind me! i did just that.. sure paid off! (well, actually, on anything else, this should be the case, haha)

but now, the 4th movement is really killing me!

thanks again.

[g_s_223]

Thanks for posting the update, very interesting.

Music making at this really advanced level is the payback for all those years of practice!

Best of luck with the next rehearsals and the performance.