Vegetarianism

[luc]

Are you a vegetarian/vegan?

What do you think about it? Is fish meat? Is meat murder?

[lisztisforkids]

I am a carnivore and proud of it.

[Etude]

Well as far as I can tell, the meat/fish we buy is already dead, so eating it isn't murdering anything, really.

[thalbergmad]

I am a big meat eater and always have been.

It seems to be trendy in this country to be a veggie.

What is the point of a cow if you can't eat it??

[JCarey]

Personally, I think the concept of vegetarianism is ridiculous. Our bodies are able to tolerate meat for a reason! I don't agree with cruelty to animals, but I don't consider killing them for food cruelty.

[danyal]

I've made a few feeble attempts at being vegetarian... I almost succeeded last year when, in a biology class, they brought in a cow's lungs and heart for a demonstration. It made me sick. Needless to say I quit bio the next year and didnt eat meat for a while. But after a while the lack of a good steak and decent biltong (for those of you who have no clue what that is, I think they call it beef jerkey in the USA, correct me if I'm wrong) got to me and I had long forgotten about the class, so back to meat it was. Yum.

Earlier this year I attended dinner with the family of a vegan friend of mine. Conveniently on their designated 'salad night'. There was every single type of salad you could think of. Greek salad, potato salad, coleslaw, etc etc. It was mildly interesting. I think they took pity on me though and brought out tofu burger patties after a while.

I love meat, and if I just dont think about what happened to it before it landed on my plate, everythings fine.

[gilad]

i love biltong, it's such a cultural thing, anyway.
 the essence of life is consumption, to live means you will consume and/or/maybe be consumed too. I remember as a child i used to get so sad/mad when i saw a lion killing a buck or whatever, i used to think why does that mean lion have to kill that beautiful buck, it's not fair, then i would go unwittingly eat a hamburger  .truth is life isn't fair, everything eats everything else, it's natural. anyway, people are blessed with an array of tastes and options and are able to choose whether or not to eat animals. this makes me think of the movie sharks tale.

[prometheus]

I am a vegetarian.

I find the idea to find vegetarianism ridiculous ridiculous. Sure we are omnivores and our body can be very healthy from eating a omnivorous diet. But this is beyond the point. First off, most people eat too much meat. Also eating only 'white meat' and fish would be much healthier. And lets not forget insects. So if you look at what is natural and healthy the average western diet is a wrong diet.

The 'tolerance' argument is stupid too. A majority of the humans can't tolerate lactose. But that doesn't mean I should't consume dairy, does it?

I don't really have a problem with eating meat of killing for food. But lets look objectively at what is happening. We are mass producing animals for food; 8.4 billion animals are killed in the US each year. That is an absurd number. We breed them, they have unnatural lives and then they get slaughtered, at incomprehensible numbers. This has all kind of other problems too problems too.

I don't think the lion analogy is fair. First of all, we aren't canivours. Second, we have a choice. We can just as well not eat meat and survive without any problem. Third, if we are going to eat meat why don't we try to do it a bit more civilized? These companies need to make money off producing meat so the animals suffer under the pressure of making profit.

The only real arguments are: "I just like meat too much.", " I dont think about what happened to it before it landed on my plate." and "Biological meat is just way too expensive."

Another problem is an economical one. Most farmers in third world countries produce corn or soy for our livestock because the western companies that produce livestock food pay more money than the hungy third world consumer. So little human food is produced. To get one pound of meat you just need about 8 pounds of corn/soy. So this is a problem.

I have no problems with in-vitro meat or even biological meat. But the amount of animals bred and killed in mass-production factories; how on earth can you say this is perfectly natural and proper and just our faith as omnivores?

I am for biological balance, natural eco systems and food chains. I find a person that finds a lion cruel just as stupid as one that doesn't see anything wrong with producing trillions of sentient beings for their meat only. And lets not forget that they do not get the lives their genes and instincts demand and expect.

Personally I developed a disguist for meat after I slowly became a vegetarian, which was actually very easy eventhough I really liked some kinds of meat when I cut meat slowly out of my diet. One thing I do not like about meat is the lack of consistency, hard tissue, bones, fat, tendons, etc.

Plants are also mass produces as human food. I see no problem with this because they are much less sentient in a way uncomparible to the average livestock animal. They can live perfectly natural and proper lives while animals cannot. A problem I do have with the production of plants is the fact that it requires farmland which has all kinds of complications.

lisztisforkids, you never eat anything else but meat?

Also, vegetarians can have perfectly rich enjoyable meat. Actually all vegetarians I know get a lot of enjoyment out of cooking and eating, although some admit it would be more enjoyable with meat.

The only problems you do have is that you cannot always eat everything when you are going to a restaurant. And people that just have to question your views, which happens both in a friendly and in more aggressive ways. For some reason you are just labelled different while you aren't doing anything that substantial.

[arensky]

Excellent post, giver of fire! I did not bother to quote it as I am in a hurry, have to teach soon. Everyone should read his post, it's quite thoughtful and informative, not the hysterical rantings of a PETA or PIRG activist.

I personally am eating less meat as I get older, I still enjoy it but don't like it all the time, I will often go for 2 or 3 days without eating any flesh. If you had told me 20 years ago this would be happening to me, I would have laughed in your face! But we change, or perhaps evolve? 

Anyway I think our bodies know what they need and want, and we should listen to them. If you don't like meat, don't eat it! But don't deprive yourself of something because you feel guilty or because it's trendy, as Thalbergmad mentioned. Oh, a flaw in my post...EAT YER ***** VEGETABLES! They are good for you and important! If you don't like 'em, salt and butter 'em up. They will "grow" on you....

[gilad]

Prometheus, dont take things so literally, and your comments about the stupidity of a person that views a lion as cruel are directed at my 5 year old self and he says stuff you! I dont think it's right to mass produce animals for their meat, i think it's quite a sick practice actually, but regardless of my thoughts i still eat meat, i guess that makes me an evil being. you take the moral high ground,  i'll go on enjoying my meals and living by my values, you go on living by yours and never the twain shall meat.

[tosca1]

Some of the most convincing reasons for being vegetarian are because vegetarianism does promote good health. Current dietary advice for well-being stresses the importance of fruit, vegetables and cereals. Lacto-ovo vegetarian diets are generally considered the best to ensure a balance of essential nutrients.
The incidence of colon cancer is much higher among people who consume a lot of meat when compared to vegetarians.  That, of course, does not mean that eating meat causes colon cancer, but it does say that vegetarianism is part of a healthy life-style.

Regards,
Robert.

[donjuan]

My sister tries to be vegetarian.  Man oh man, shes so fat because of it.  You see, she suppresses her yearning for meat by stuffing herself with simple carbohydrates instead.  yeah, I know... probably her own fault rather than the idea of being vegetarian.  all I am saying, is that you have to be smart if you want to get away with being vegetarian.  Otherwise, you blow up like my sister.

For the rest of us...
Eat meat!  You need the amino acids.  If you dont get the amino acids from meat, you will either be very sick, or have to work out some special dietary aid, where the pill comes from animal meat anyway!  Just accept the fact that those sharp teeth at the front are for ripping apart meat, while the back teeth are for crushing vegetation.  That's just evolution, so you had better go along with it.

The 'tolerance' argument is stupid too. A majority of the humans can't tolerate lactose. But that doesn't mean I should't consume dairy, does it?

what 'tolerance' argument?

[prometheus]

Five year olds are supposed to be stupid , I know I was.
It's just that I have seen teenagers and even adults use this arguments. Note that I didn't say those people were stupid, just just as stupid as a group of other people. Both views show an equal amount of lack of undertanding and appreciation for the way nature works.

I am not saying that you are evil or immoral. I am just saying the reasoning is flawed. Actually I do not think it is evil or immoral. Most people just eat meat because they do. At least, that is what I used to do.

Also, if you do find it sick, but for some reason you still eat meat, then the problem isn't the morality at all, right? It might be lack of discipline, peer pressure etc.

I didn't open this topic and because I seem to be the only vegetarian here up to now and considering the views already expressed I felt that I had to reply.

what 'tolerance' argument?

The one JCarey made. The fact that our bodies can metabolise meat with no problem seemed the be a reason to eat meat. But a lot of asian and african people get sick when they consume dairy. So by that logic he should opose consuption of dairy because human bodies generally do not tolerate it very well.


About health, I wouldn't say a vegetarian diet is generally a very healthy one. Adding fish or even insects to a vegetable-heavy diet is probably better than the average vegetarian diet.

For personal experience it seemed that I needed to eat a lot more carbohydrate-heavy foods to get a full, satisfied feeling after a meal. Of course this is not unhealthy per se. But lack of exersize and a particular metabolism and fat sortage and a person might gain weight, which still may very well not be unhealthy, actually.

Too much red meat is unhealthy. But if you want to lose weight going vegetarian is not the solution.

About amino acids. There are 20 standard types of amino acids and ten of them are called 'essantial' because the body cannot synthesize them. Mean does have all 10 of them in fair quantities. But if you are eating one source of vegetarian protein then you will not get all 10 in fair amounts. The problem is already solved when you eat two different plats within 24 hours. Then the body can create all protein it needs because all needed types are suppied. So protein isn't a problem. The only problem is vitamin B12, which is created by bacteria that only live in animals. For lacto-ovo vegetarians this is not a problem. For vegans, there are B12 pills with B12 that doesn't come from an animal source.

Note, some people may have some kind of nutrition disorder that can give them problems with some kinds of diets.

[pianistimo]

was watching a program on tv that said okinawan's are the world's oldest people because they eat more fish and kelp (or something like that) and hold to lots of work and exercise.  one ninety year old guy jumped off the boat and dove down to obtain clams or something - and i was surprised at him even attempting something like that at his age!

ok. so maybe fish is the solution.  fish don't seem to die so agonizingly.  their eyes just glaze over and that's it.

i've learned to make veggie casseroles that are actually quite good.  some with eggplant (breaded and fried ahead of time) and also, spinach and/or kale or collard greens.  you can sort of hide the good (healthy stuff) with the pasta and tomatoes and basil (and lots of cheese). 

i'm omnivorous but i detest anyone killing animals for the sake of just killing them.  that part of the movie of 'oh brother, where art thou' where they ran over the cow made me really angry.  or where the guy takes the machine gun and says 'i've always hated cows' and blows holes in a couple.  to me, this is ridiculous - to make animals hurt for no reason.  honestly, if i was in charge of an angus ranch, i'd probably turn vegetarian and make them all pets.

[gilad]

Five year olds are supposed to be stupid , I know I was.
It's just that I have seen teenagers and even adults use this arguments. Note that I didn't say those people were stupid, just just as stupid as a group of other people. Both views show an equal amount of lack of undertanding and appreciation for the way nature works.

I am not saying that you are evil or immoral. I am just saying the reasoning is flawed. Actually I do not think it is evil or immoral. Most people just eat meat because they do. At least, that is what I used to do.

Also, if you do find it sick, but for some reason you still eat meat, then the problem isn't the morality at all, right? It might be lack of discipline, peer pressure etc.

I didn't open this topic and because I seem to be the only vegetarian here up to now and considering the views already expressed I felt that I had to reply.

The one JCarey made. The fact that our bodies can metabolise meat with no problem seemed the be a reason to eat meat. But a lot of asian and african people get sick when they consume dairy. So by that logic he should opose consuption of dairy because human bodies generally do not tolerate it very well.


About health, I wouldn't say a vegetarian diet is generally a very healthy one. Adding fish or even insects to a vegetable-heavy diet is probably better than the average vegetarian diet.

For personal experience it seemed that I needed to eat a lot more carbohydrate-heavy foods to get a full, satisfied feeling after a meal. Of course this is not unhealthy per se. But lack of exersize and a particular metabolism and fat sortage and a person might gain weight, which still may very well not be unhealthy, actually.

Too much red meat is unhealthy. But if you want to lose weight going vegetarian is not the solution.

About amino acids. There are 20 standard types of amino acids and ten of them are called 'essantial' because the body cannot synthesize them. Mean does have all 10 of them in fair quantities. But if you are eating one source of vegetarian protein then you will not get all 10 in fair amounts. The problem is already solved when you eat two different plats within 24 hours. Then the body can create all protein it needs because all needed types are suppied. So protein isn't a problem. The only problem is vitamin B12, which is created by bacteria that only live in animals. For lacto-ovo vegetarians this is not a problem. For vegans, there are B12 pills with B12 that doesn't come from an animal source.

Note, some people may have some kind of nutrition disorder that can give them problems with some kinds of diets.

haha, yeah five year olds are quite silly.
honestly, good for you for speaking your mind.

[prometheus]

There are some problems with fish. First of some areas are overfished, damaging the fish population and the eco system. Second, a lot of other sea creatures are killed in the nets. Another problem is that some seas are so polluted that fish sometimes have too high doses of heavy metals, otherwise fish is perfect as health food. Of course fish are cruelly treated because they die slowly and mercyless, but their nervous system is less complex, though I find the way they live more important than the way they die. I am not sure how much some of these issues play in the N-America.

And about fish in breeded in farms, they have their own problems too. Because these animals live so close together they develop parasites. And these parasites jump over to the wild fish, still damaging the ecosystem. Another problem is that these fish are breeded. Sometimes these fish escape and their breeded genes damage the gene pools when they breed with the wild fish.

I am no expert on fish sociology and behavior, but it seems that their can live relatively natural and stressless lives in these farms, so that is not as much a problem as with pigs,  chickens and cows

I am not trying to make a point, I am just trying to inform.

[danyal]

You know, I have a simple solution to everyone's debates on what's right and whats not etc etc... and, all in all, it makes PERFECT sense. Take some time to read this through thoroughly as it applies to you. Enjoy!

https://www.dadamo.com/

[JCarey]

Whatever. To each his own, as they say.

[paris]

i haven't touched pork, beef and those meaty things for like 4-5years. its simply a matter of taste, i feel much better without them. i don't eat white meet neither cos of bird flu things. not that i'm afraid of, but i can't help picturing to myself thousands of sicky chicken...oh well its not attempting anymore