The Point?

[Ruro]

First off... i'm not looking at this from a "Meaning of life perspective", infact I don't think I can explain how it's different from that way of viewing it, but maybe you will catch my drift as I move on...

Today, what did you do? Of course, so many possibilities; practised piano, cooked dinner, read a book, multiple of these, what ever...

But was it worth it? I mean... you are gonna be alive this week, for what? To enjoy doing some activities? Do you really *enjoy* it? Was it worth doing that? Is it worth going through next week just to do the same stuff again?
Even if it's different stuff, say going to a Theme Park, or watching Hamelin in Concert, is it truely worth it? Sure, it's over, then what? Go on for weeks on months on end?!

You catch my drift? Life is just TOO long to make it ultimately worth while.

90 Years of Life   -   Of which is   -   2% Enjoyment (if that) = Pointless
Hell, most the time your friggin sleeping.

Sorry, but is that really worth it, with so little gain. Your learning the piano to become a teacher, concert pianist, or a plain enjoyable hobby? FOR WHAT?

The bottom line is, there is too much boredem in life, too much emptiness, nothingness. The extremely small percentage that is Fun/Interesting/WORTH WHILE just isn't worth waiting for/experiencing. Even if you did consume everyday with activities... it just... isn't worth it. Maybe my own conclusions on life and such makes this present life expendable, but forcing religion on someone isn't exactly acceptable either, nor feasable really.

Why not just end it all? Save yourself a whole load of.... rubbish.

To battle my point, yeah, your looking forward to something... go for it! If you are really gonna enjoy something, then by all means, find stuff to do in the mean time to try and remove the pointlessness, and finaly take that dream holiday or whatever. But afterwards... :/

I kinda answered my own question in that, find something to look foward too, or create an opportunity, or adventure, whatever you wanna call it. But why do that if you can just save yourself the hassle and end it all?

I am personally looking forward to a trip to Japan, which is one long friggin wait till the upcoming November, but after that, I foresee quite accurately a long and boring life of programming computer software, or worse a computer technician which I was initially planning a year back (god, what was I thinking). Even if I engineered myself a new career, there is nothing potentially worth the time. Admitedlly a Concert Pianist is appealing... but it's not gonna happen. Don't give me that hope rubbish, I think statisticaly it's pointless debating.

FYI, I'm fine, this is purely a question/opinion which I wanna hear your answer/opinion to.

Thanks for your replies in advance, and in hopefuly keeping this thread non-flammable.

*Apologies if this subject breaks forum rules somehow, frankly I couldn't find the page with these rules written upon*

[lisztisforkids]

to quote Haydn,"if I can somehow help somebody, inspire them to great things or lift them up through music than I will not have lived a pointless life", I myself wish to reach my full potential. What are we really capable of? were the masters really that much different from you or me or did they just sit down and want to be something? Life is way to SHORT. Hell, I cant believe I am already 18. I enjoy being alive, I enjoy all of my feeling of happiness, anger, and even being deppresed. Life has more to gain than lose. I apoligize for poor english writing skills.

[Bob]

You don't really have a choice.  You have to live.

It's true a lot of it is tedious.  It takes a lot just to survive.  We can take survival for granted though.  I imagine at one point it took everything you had just to survive.

I think life is too short.  By the time you get going, you're old and wear out.

I try to find things that make my life worthwhile.  At least that way I had some positive impact on the world.

You also have to find things that are satisfying and fulfilling.  Otherwise, yes, it is just dull day to day things.

New is good, but you can't do too much spontaneous stuff otherwise the long-term projects don't happen.

I've heard the phrase "Live everyday like it's your last," but it's probably not.  You have to eat tomorrow.  You have a standard of living you want to maintain.  It takes work to do that and work is not always fun or exciting, but it does allow you to earn money just so you can exist and hopefully do more than just exist.

Even if you play great piano, what's the point?  At least that way, I consider I have expereince something and something as close to real "magic" in life as you can get.

But basically, you don't have a choice.  We must live.  When your stomach starts growing not much philosophy will concern you than food.  Covering these basics, food and shelter and all that, does take some work which can get dull.  But that's life.

On the other hand, you do have control.  You can decide what to do with your life and whether you enjoy things or not.  In that way, you can create your own happiness to some extent.

[pianistimo]

believe it or not, a TEACHER at my son's highschool (i think science) committed suicide last year.  it greatly affected the students.  a male friend of mine was affected all his life by the fact that his father shot himself in the head when my friend was only 8.  he ended up taking care of his mom for all those years and trying to be a son and also a father to his brothers.  extreme stress!  also, in alaska there is what is called 'cabin fever' for people who really need sunlight to thrive.  a lot of women become depressed - so a friend in our church at the time (who lived in a fairly remote location) became depressed and didn't call anyone and ended up killing herself (leaving 4 children - one of whom was a very small child). 

you can't judge people who make this decision - but it greatly affects all who know them.  when you verbally express feelings of this sort, i believe it's a way for others to be able to encourage you to choose living (even when it's difficult).  many people don't live in the moment and are waiting for that big break or for things to 'get better.'  but, through each day there are thousands of things to be thankful for, too.  it's just a different mindset that grows when you start seeing what you can do for others.  whether it's your own family, your school, or your job.  mentoring is a cool thing because you are helping the next generation have some kind of hope.  if you are good at computer programming - don't keep it all to yourself.  take a child and help them learn computers or piano.  or just take a child who needs a big brother/sister to do things with to avoid boredom and depression themselves.  i used to take a neighbor child bicycling when i was younger.  granted, we had some accidents along the way - but he never came back to me and said 'you could have killed me by choosing the trails you did' (he almost ran into a yield sign when the bike trail split in two) - but remembered it positively. 

i find the most encouragement from my family, and from piano students.  of course, you can also find some extra-curricular activities to make your life more 'fun.'   i've thought about ballroom dancing, but for you , whatever you wish you had time for - just make the time!  depression is very hard to overcome without friends around.  i'm sure everyone on piano forum has been depressed at one time or another.  you have to know that we are all rooting for you - and because we can't literally come to your house doesn't mean that most here wouldn't take the time to come and sit down and discuss why we value you so much and hope that you will see your own value to others. 

beethoven wrote the h. testament because he was planning on dying (suicide?) over his deafness.  but, then after he wrote it, he decided that as long as there was some good he could do in this life for others - he would keep on.  very smart people often see the seeming pointlessness of life - but what they fail to immediately grasp is how many people often have life worse than ours and are optomistic.  i think we are in this life to develop character.  to stand up to adversity and knock it in the teeth.  even in the worse case scenario of your life (computer programming until 90 or whatever) you have a job - you have money to live, a possibility of a family, or good friends to keep you happy and visa-versa, and time to practice the piano (and become as good as you want).  never take the easiest choices in life!  always pick the slightly harder or hardest choice.  it always seems to be the right one.  i mean, if right was easy - we'd all be drinking 5 beers or a bottle of wine a day - and slashing our wrists every month or so. 

 

[jas]

I've been thinking about this quite a lot recently. Life has become depressingly mundane. But I'm optimistic because I'm still a student, so it's not forever.
I get a lot of my quota of the less-mundane through music, art and literature. They're the best and most easily accessible methods of escapism.

You don't really have a choice.  You have to live.

It's true a lot of it is tedious.  It takes a lot just to survive.  We can take survival for granted though.  I imagine at one point it took everything you had just to survive.

I think life is too short.  By the time you get going, you're old and wear out.

I try to find things that make my life worthwhile.  At least that way I had some positive impact on the world.

You also have to find things that are satisfying and fulfilling.  Otherwise, yes, it is just dull day to day things.

New is good, but you can't do too much spontaneous stuff otherwise the long-term projects don't happen.

I've heard the phrase "Live everyday like it's your last," but it's probably not.  You have to eat tomorrow.  You have a standard of living you want to maintain.  It takes work to do that and work is not always fun or exciting, but it does allow you to earn money just so you can exist and hopefully do more than just exist.

Even if you play great piano, what's the point?  At least that way, I consider I have expereince something and something as close to real "magic" in life as you can get.

But basically, you don't have a choice.  We must live.  When your stomach starts growing not much philosophy will concern you than food.  Covering these basics, food and shelter and all that, does take some work which can get dull.  But that's life.

On the other hand, you do have control.  You can decide what to do with your life and whether you enjoy things or not.  In that way, you can create your own happiness to some extent.

You make a good (if mildly depressing) point. But there should be a middle ground. There are people who live near me who've lived in the same town all their lives and own a little convenience shop. They seem to be quite happy with the situation, but I look at them and think, what a waste. What kind of a way is that to live a life? And I have friends who left school and began working straight away without finishing their education, they have no real passions or anything they're interested in. They just go through life, working 9-5, going out at the weekends, watching TV in between. I find this depressing! There's a difference between extreme adventurousness and just making the most of life.

Jas

[Ruro]

Although I deeply appreciate your replies, nothing that has been said particularly slaps me in the face, but maybe nothing can be said to knock sense into me.

It was a bad idea bringing this topic up, it's just not gonna bring me what I need. Again though, I appreciate your replies, and thanks for your effort. I feel like saying much more tbh, but it's just pointless, I'm not gonna find what I want.

Thanks again,

Ruro

[danyal]

The fact that I breathe gives me reason to live. I have the privelage to wake up every morning and make of my day exactly what I please. My music gives me point to life. It is my life. I have goals, and dreams and places to go, things to do and people to see, etc etc, but as you so rightly asked, does that matter? Whats the point? It adds the flavour, it allows me to stay alive, physically, so that I may find, joy, happiness and love in this crazy world. I dont care about the stocks and world events, as long as I can sit and create music, or sit amongst those who are doing so and laugh and cry through every note that is played, then my life is lived, to the fullest. Music is food for my soul, it's what keeps it alive.

I think that the point to an individual's life is, to find ones passion and savour and nurture it, let it grow, to its fullest. And do so regardless of circumstances, throught thick and thin. Fight for what you love. I think otherwise known as, "finding oneself". Otherwise I find, a life is half lived.

[thalbergmad]

Ruro,

I was a little worried when i read your first post and even more worried when I looked up your age in your profile and saw you were only 18 years old. I really don't think that it is healthy to have this kind of thought pattern at your age.

When i was 18, I must admit that my thinking was similar, but because all the advice i ever got was "snap yourself out of it", i stayed as i was for some years and degenerated into a deep depression.

I will not give you the full story because it is pretty horrific and i am not saying that you are in any way ill, what i do suggest is that you see your doctor and seek advice/counselling to help put you back on track.

Regards

Thal

[ted]

Ruro:

I would definitely follow the advice of others here and at least see your doctor about it. We understand a lot more about these things nowadays. Some mental states have physical causes - foods, undetected medical conditions and so on. Failing the existence of a physical reason there are still plenty of highly qualified people who can help you. Depression is an extremely common illness, and thankfully these days completely without stigma. You do not have to put up with it and you CAN enjoy your life.

However well meaning we all are here, and please feel free to post at any time, I think the first step is for you to see a professional.

[Ruro]

I feel nervous about where this is going, so how about we just leave it there.

And I'm not annoyed, just I hate going down this road.

Thanks for your continued replies and concerns all I can assure you I'm fine, just everyone has there bad moments and create some round the bend topic.

And perhaps maybe let this thread die, it isn't exactly the light of the party, unless you all fancy continuing the topic :/

[whynot]

I'm really glad you wrote.  The most brilliant minds throughout history have been trying to answer this question for eons.  The fact that you're struggling with it says that you're a deep person, that you are not satisfied to live on the fringes of life and just survive in a television-induced stupor.  And you're at an age where a healthy, mature person is re-thinking family beliefs and coming up with his own world view.  This is difficult, and a lot of people hide from it with obsessive television, over-drinking, over-sexing, and taking extreme risks.  You are not hiding from it, which is good.    

Have people been telling you that your teens are the best years of your life, and you'd better enjoy them because boy-oh-boy it's a rough world out there, etc?  Because that is NOT TRUE.  The teens are very difficult--congratulations on surviving them, by the way--I wouldn't go back for a million dollars.  I heard this constantly as a teenager and I was in despair for years over it.  I thought, "Well, things are terrible now, and if it's all downhill from here..."  I was, like the previous poster, also suicidal for a while, largely for this reason.  But the truth is, life gets better.  Not a little better, a LOT better.  It gets easier because you've had more experiences, you know how situations work--social, financial, living, traveling, everything.  It's MUCH more interesting; you meet lots of people you actually want to spend time with because they're filtered by mutual interests of work and hobbies, not just where you live.  There are few cliques for adults.  You just spend time with the people you like, and nobody cares.  It's more comfortable, because you are charge of your living situation and lifestyle.  You become a better musician just by getting older and living a little, although you can work at it and get even better.  Family relationships get sorted out, or you become free to leave them behind, if necessary.  You learn how to make all kinds of fresh starts, you learn what matters to you... it's GREAT.    

Are you really enjoying only 2% of your life?  I know you didn't mean the math literally, but it's as good a springboard as anything.   Let's assume we don't care about having fun while sleeping, and just deal with awake time, say 16 hours.  That's about 20 minutes a day that you are enjoying what you're doing.  That's not very much.  So what do you LIKE to do?  I know there's another conversation sprouting from your posts, along the lines of, "Even though I enjoy something temporarily, what's the point?"  I'm not ignoring that point, I'm just not going there yet, because if you were enjoying more than 2% of your life, you might feel differently about the other question too.  What did you like to do as a child that you had to give up as an adult--or thought you had to give up?  What did you used to wish you could be older in order to do, that you're not doing even though you're older now?   Do you really know what pleases you?  I don't mean what makes you happy at a deep level, I mean just the small details that give you pleasure.  Something you experience with your senses.  If you don't know what pleases you (many people don't), think through your senses:  what do I like to taste? smell? hear? etc.  There are also the mental pleasures of reading certain kinds of writing, imagining places and situations, solving problems--crosswords, mysteries, transposing etc.  Is there a lifestyle you're curious about, like living in the country and growing your own food, or living in a big city if you've never done that before?  Are you able to write down five things that please you in most of those areas?  If not, that's something to start paying attention to, just discovering the myriad small pleasures of everyday life.  If this were all we did, we would become very self-centered, not living a balanced life.  I'm not advocating a selfish life at all, but you are attracted to music, which is brain + heart, so you have found some balance there.  You are clearly extremely intelligent and have the brain thing well in command.  So I'm just wondering about balance in the rest of your life:  heart, sensuality, pleasure, beauty etc.  (What's your favorite pen, hot beverage, candy bar, color of hair, season, pillow, distant relative, kind of dog, antique car, composer, cake, perfume on a girl, make of piano, author... seriously, make a huge list of what you like.)  

The "who cares" question depends on your world view.  Have you ever heard the phrase, "The meaning of life is to live a life with meaning"?  The way to have your life matter is to ALLOW it matter.  You are whoever you are, comprised of your gifts, interests, personality, experiences, your family (although if you're like most people, this is something to overcome), where you live, and what you've learned so far.  In all of that, there are many things for you to give to the world, things for you to do that no one else can do in quite the same way.  You play the piano.  You must know somebody who doesn't play, and that person has a dream song.  Learn the song and teach him how to play it.  You can play for people who have no such outlet of expression, people trapped in their bodies by sickness or old age.  You can teach computer skills to less educated people in job training programs who are trying to learn how not to scrub floors for the rest of their lives.  You write computer programs.  How about, instead of writing whatever the highest bidder wants, as I suppose most jobs would run, that you find a cause you think matters--curing cancer, ending hunger--learn what they need and write something for them? Or get in on that new chip-in-the-brain thing that's coming for people with head injuries?  Maybe chip-in-the-brain technology that allows a paralyzed person to compose music??  Whatever you know how to do or are capable of learning how to do, there is a need in the world that you can fill in a way no one else can.

Best wishes on your season of introspection.  

[leahcim]

So what you're basically saying is :-

To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.-

My advice, watch Othello next, but don't turn into Iago.

[Ruro]

*This topic is no longer for the faint of heart, or people who force there religions onto others, although I'm sure we are all nice enough to refrain from doing that anyway*

I know I'm completely flattening my previous post, so *** kill me.

That Whynot, as... informative as it is, just makes me think "what, that is just so much information, so much to take in, it's too much effort".

Not to say I didn't read it, in ways I did take it in, just I didn't process the results from it.

It's just, even with all those great possiblities; thing to look forward too (although I don't understand some of them yet, simply because I'm not 30 or whatever yet), or... "things to offer to the world", or "stuff to experience".

I mean god, that... that just doesn't outweigh the alternative. Even if I fullfilled my dream, I have an inckling feeling it wouldn't help me for ***, and even if I learnt to be a great pianist... well, maybe that is worth living for, but recently has no chance of realisation, can't even play a contrary C Major scale without blending... unless my *** old keyboard is performing the impossible.

As I said, the adult life... I don't understand what's different?! Work for years on end!? Well, how about a family? Personally never appealed to me, owning a nice house? what, get that away from me. I just... seriously, that isn't worth the TIME.

What is worth the time? I don't know?! Sure, teaching someone my currently amateur programming, what's the point!? There's too many programmers out there, and.. I just don't wanna teach anyway.

I am nothing special, I have nothing special to offer, the things I love doing... well, to be perfectly honest, probably just listening to music covers that. In which itself is either spelling out happiness which has no vent, or spelling disaster which just sends you into a slump.

I really don't see any point.

Your information must be flying right round me, maybe I'm missing a key *perception method* to your message, but it strikes no sense in me.

And Leahcim... thank you for that. *no sarcasm*

I'm just wondering if I'm trying to find an answer or if I'm trying to explain my point to ensure it's reasonably logical, which to me is sound.

I mean, just think about your life? When you REALLY think about it, there is no reason to be living today. I can't say I ever questioned it this much, but it clearly deserves questioning, because I friggin live life... just... brawling your way through crap that has no point to really serve but to fill this extra time your spending living.

BAM, your not taking up hobbies and interests to be happy, but to consume the time of your life. Not to refrain from boredem, but to refrain from losing your individual point of being.

Tell me that isn't logical. I mean what is there to be afraid of from death anyway? If you got a belief that dishes no punishment for self-destruction then more power to you. Hate all those Christians that think they can bring yup Christianity just to stop you from doing it.

Now don't get me wrong, I ain't a religion basher, I respect there religions, but when you google search for topics like suicide, you realise they pull out the bible for there best reason to stop you. Well, maybe (not all of you of course) would stop a moment and realise we got our own beliefs, and i they say you don't have to visit church on a Sunday, then.... by all means, do or don't go.

I swear we have blinded ourselves with the wrong answer towards suicide. By all means, I understand euthanasia, that will take some debate in my mind too, but self-taking, now that is NOT debatable. Although if you take the Depression Illness, then apparently that sways your judgement, and then you can have your doctors and crap step in, but *** does it happen to NORMAL PERSON, who finally realised he is living like a drone in friggin day to day, for all 90 odd whatever years of his life.

I think... I made my point.

By all means flame me.

EDIT: And let's keep on topic and not get personal with anyone in terms of there private life, unless they deem it so... I don't deem mine, so leave me out of it from that that perspective, thank you.

[JCarey]

Suicide isn't cool, man. No really, I used to be suicidal when I was younger - that was until I realized how much I truly loved life. You have a point, you really do, but it's not a good one. You must pull yourself out of this - it's unhealthy.

Go for a walk, think about other things, rest... do whatever it takes to get out of this depression you're in. Try NEW things. Life won't get boring if you keep trying new things to keep yourself occupied. And of course, keep listening to great music! 

But don't kill youself. You'll thank yourself in the future. Trust me.

[leahcim]

And Leahcim... thank you for that. *no sarcasm*

I don't know why though, Shakespeare pulls out the bible, more or less, as you noted others do.

You sound like the unabomber [Have you read his manifesto? Or perhaps between the lines, I'd ignore the political guff and concentrate on the unhappy, introspective boy who didn't want to do his maths homework - every ambitious parent and teacher should read it]

Reason for living? I don't really need one, I'm already alive without doing a great deal. Nature and Tescos take care of most of the effort that requires.

I'm like you in the sense that I can't really be bothered to do many of the things you've listed. At least not in the planned or list making ambitious sense that many go through life. I'm not thinking "Oh my house could / should be bigger, that will make me happier, therefore I shall do a, b and c" Sometimes you get distracted by something, possibly even for years despite it though.

Suicide would be no different - why would I go to the effort? What would I get from it? What else is more fitting of the description of "doing something to fill in the time before you die" ?

Surely the whole philosophy of the message is saying "There's no point doing anything" so if you're looking for a logical flaw, that's it. Suicide is doing something. It requires time, planning and effort and the results are %$% all - at least if you're atheist. If you're not the results aren't pretty.  Either case, that's less than or equal to the results of buying a big house, having kids, learning to play the piano or whatever else you've already dismissed as pointless to do because of the effort / results. A contradiction.

[whynot]

I guess I wrote too much.  Will try to curtail that.  I suggested several points of view to see if any of them clicked with you, and it seems they did not.  I offered questions you can ask yourself to figure out what makes you happy, what matters to you, because I think that knowledge would make things much better for you.   But maybe you just wanted to discuss the philosophical point, which I'm not very good at.  Maybe you don't want things to be better.  I'm not being sarcastic, I think I just misunderstood your intention.  Do you want to prove by logic that it's acceptable, sensible, to end one's life?  I can't prove one way or the other, but I know you are unhappy, and I believe it's possible for you to be happy.  Would you want that if you thought you could have it?  If it didn't feel like too much effort?  (again, not sarcastic) 

Intrigued by your Japan trip.  School or family thing?  Also, how is your playing going?  You are  frustrated about it, and it sounds like the thing you care about most, making it directly relevant to this thread.  What are you playing, and what are you having trouble with?  Only if you wish to answer, of course.  Cheers...

[AvoidedCadence]

I would recommend to you the novels Steppenwolfe and Narcissus and Goldmund by Herman Hesse - while these works are not the ideal "introduction" to the great man's works, they deal most directly with the issues you are confronting (in my opinion).  This  advice I won't attempt to justify.  The choice is yours.

[rc]

This is a long thread already but I might have something a little different to add.

First thing, there is a lot of great and true advice in here, even someone who isn't depressed could get a lot of benefit from some of this wisdom. So a practical suggestion Ruro; try going back and rereading it all, but this time go slowly, leave yourself for the moment and try to get into the thoughts and meaning behind what people have written here. Just pretend while your reading that you believe it, and afterwards you can compare viewpoints. May take some time, but that doesn't matter anyways right?

...

Well, I can truely relate to what you're saying. I understand your point because I've been in and out of that mindset so many times, thinking basically the exact same thing. This is depression. But, I think that confronting these thoughts is very good for a person, even if it means going through depression, you will become much stronger for it (this is speaking in hindsight, probably won't make too much sense to you now, but trust me here). I believe it is also true that many people will distract themselves from these critical issues with things like TV/drugs/work, they're people like all of us, but perhaps not so brave or not ready for these thoughts.

...and don't worry, I'm not a religious person. I won't (can't) bring any of that with me.

So, after going in and out of these thoughts for a while, previously just distracting myself from them... But the last, and worst case of depression I had, I found a solution. Now, this might be a very personal thing that only pertains to myself, but please join my train of thought for a bit and see what you think of this perspective. I'll try not to make it too long.

So, no matter what we do with our lives, we'll all die eventually. Whatever we accomplish will also turn to dust, except perhaps if we were a Beethoven whose works and name will continue to live long after death. Most of us probably aren't Beethoven's, so that leaves work/survival and then death when it comes, and our names will eventually fade into oblivion.

But let's dig a little deeper, because there is something us forgettable mortals can leave behind, children. Now I know you aren't interested in family, which is good for your age (I'm not much older than you BTW, not interested in family ATM either). Even if you don't leave an immortal legacy behind, perhaps, if we do everything we can to raise our children right, they will be able to make a mark. Maybe somewhere down the line will be someone who will truely make a difference, because you used your life to make it possible.

Try to think back of what our parents have done for our lives, working every day to make life possible for us, perhaps helping give us access to our music, all kinds of little things that add up. Their parents, and their parent's parents, back through time the lineage all worked to make things better for the next.

Or, maybe in pursuing our activities/hobbies, even if we don't become great, we may very well inspire or influence someone else. Maybe that random person will become great, or maybe they will just take up piano themselves and in turn their future children will, because of the hobby some forgotten person spent part of their life learning.

Anything can happen, and things really DO work like this, because even in small ways, people will influence each others lives. So even if indirectly, what you do with your life will make a difference. We are all little pieces of the great, unknown story of humanity.

You say you are nothing special, have nothing to offer. Maybe that's true right now, because you are depressed. But consider that we can live for a very long time, and can make use of that time to become something more. Before anyone can make the world a better place they must first make something of themselves, and that is where we begin. So perhaps over time you will become good at piano, or maybe will become good at something completely different. You never know what twists the future may hold, which is why it's important to explore other avenues, try other interests.

...

Well that was longer than I hoped. I think I've got most of my ideas down on the subject. Hopefully you were able to find something useful from what I said. Even if you don't agree, feel free to say so, I would be interested to hear.

[quasimodo]

Have a beer or a whisky...
Have sex...

Everything is fine 

[quasimodo]

... not even mentionning that I would be pissed if I were to die before I can play the Goldberg's Variations, and Scrabin etudes Op.42, and Chopin's Etudes and Ballades, and...

Damn it! I've just discovered that I WILL be pissed when I die 

[ada]

hi ruro

Perhaps you shouldn't get too hung up on "the meaning of life", there may not be one, but that doesn't matter.

We're here as vehicles for our DNA, that's all. It's about our genes, not us.

If we can be happy and do some good during our time here, well that's about all you can ask. That's fine.

I'm sorry if you're feeling down and yeah I've been there too, but I am so not there now.

I've learned not to take things too seriously, just get through your days and do the best you can.

In the words of John Barth's doctor in The End of the Road: "Why don't you read Satre and become an existentialist?...act impulsively, don't let yourself get stuck between alternatives...if the alternatives are side by side,  choose the one on the left, if they're consecutive in time, choose the earlier. If neither of these applies choose the alternative whose name begins with the earlier letter of the alphabet."

good luck.

[pianistimo]

dear ruro,  you ARE special! 

just watched 'when harry met sally' last night, and since you don't want a lot of 'religion,' i would suggest that you do keep talking to people!  this is what kept harry and sally going.

i had a mild depression when i was around 12 -13 and a recently met friend started making me laugh my head off.  there's something about laughter that is almost as good as medicine (although for major depression, med's or diet might be the best).  it relaxes you for one thing.  and, you momentarily forget what is pulling you down or 'breaking your spirit.'

ultimately, i think we do all have a spirit.  and, i personally believe that if we ask for the Holy Spirit, it will 'guide us' into a better understanding of the spiritual world.  it seems outdated to believe in demons, but i believe that in major depression people don't often do what is considered 'rational.'  when you switch thought patterns (whether you are religious or not) - you start delving into what makes life worth living from the standpoint of 'unwasted time.'

often, it seems, when people are passionately invoved in something they love, they have more energy and motivation.  maybe you SHOULD consider piano as a more major part of your life.  After all, you are 18 and no one is saying - it's too late, you're too old, or anything like that.  in fact, you could turn around and help others who are depressed by getting into music therapy.  it's a bigger business than i thought - because there are many people who are depressed right now.  possibly economically motivated depression, but also, i feel, spiritually.  people are not as giving anymore.  we don't get that 'up' feeling from being loved unconditionally.  it's like you have to prove your worth to the world.  this is stupid.  everyone should be loved equally for being part of this human race.