Dad Needing ASAP Help

[steveotx]

Great forum . . . .
I need help asap to make this happen before Christmas.
My 11 year old son has become a very serious piano player.  It's time to put the $750 upright away and buy a grand.  Budget is a concern.
I spent the day yesterday with him at piano stores.  He and the salespeople spoke a language I didnt understand.
At the end of the day, we narrowed it dow to these options from the different stores (based on price and how my son liked "the sound and feel"):
Inexpensive--new Schoenbach (4' 7") for $5k or a new Bergamm (4' 11") for $7k.
Moderate--new Yamaha GB1 *(4' 11") for $8700.
Expensive--used Young Chang G-185 (6' 1'") for roughtly $10k.  12 years old.  Looked new to me.
Each salesperson who heard him play said he would not be happy with inexpensive pianos--as "he can play" and "he hears the music and knows the difference".  Are they misleading me?
Is Young Chang a good option?  Sounded good to my tone deaf ear.  What must I look out for in buying used?
I like the Yamaha, but in doing research I see this model is mostly sold in Europe.  Is that a concern?
What else am I missing?
I see some options in the paper from individuals, but that makes me nervous.
Thanks for your help.

[teresa_b]

Hi steveotx,

Congrats to your son!  My son is 20, and has JUST made the same decision after quitting piano for some years.  He is playing catch-up.  Best wishes for you and your young pianist. 

Yep, the sales people are B-S-ing you, even though your son undoubtedly does have a good ear and lots of talent.  Having bought 4 pianos over the years (I finally graduated to a Steinway B, my dream piano), I know the sales people are very slick!  I don't know just which one you should choose, but here are a couple of ideas:

How about your son's piano teacher?  Could he/she come and help judge the pianos?

If you are serious about the Young Chang used piano, you may want to call an independent  piano technician (Good ones can be referred to you by university music depts or piano teachers, etc),  Have the tech check out the piano to make sure it won't need another $5000 of work, or something. 

My parents recently bought a Kohler & Campbell new 6'1" grand, and it sounds very nice.  ($11,000.)  It is a Samick (Korean) sold under the old K&C name.  Warning:  Any K&C under that size was far inferior. 

I don't think there's a problem with Yamaha.  I have never played the piano you mention.  It seems inexpensive for Yamaha, so it may not be a great piano.

Your son's intuition about the right piano for him may be right on!  See what he says.

Best of luck, and have fun!
Teresa

[mamma2my3sons]

From all I've read,  pianos under 5' are considered piano shaped objects (generally speaking) A larger piano is always a better choice. Your son will grow out of a 4'7" piano VERY quickly.

I have a 2004 Kohler & Campbell. (5'9" model) I've found it to be quite a nice piano.
For $8500 or so you may want to check out the smaller 5'2" Kohler. The New York series Kohler's (prefix KCG) have been made in Indonesian for 3 years or so now.  For 7K I would suggest checking out Story & Clark/Nordiska/Hallet Davis (these are all very similar pianos made in the same factory in Dongbei China) A 5'5" model can be had for around $7k. They have a good reputation at their pricepoint. Samick is available at this pricepoint as well.

WAIT & Get Larry Fines: The Piano book, & Price Supplement ('06). It is available on Amazon as well as www.pianoworld.com (a great site with tons of information, their piano formum is excellent-lots of information, priceing/quality on various pianos as well as their tech forum. People are very helpful etc) It will really help you make an EDUCATED decision with your son.

If you buy used, CHECK THE SERIAL number, people/dealers often fudge how old a piano really is. A piano could be 30 years old but look new.  You don't want something that is going to need work in the near future. Have a tech check the piano. Make sure the soundboard is intact, pins tight, action right etc. How has it been maintained etc. Yamaha has the best reputation of all the pianos you mentioned. I think that model though may not have the full sustenuto pedal. (not sure about this) as it is their more budget grand made in Indonesia. It still has a nice reputation but again, its small.

Don't rush into anything, educate yourself. It sounds like this is going to be a large $ purchase for you (as it was for many of us).  Thus you want to make a decision you & your son are both satisfied with over the long term.

Best wishes, keep us posted.

[iumonito]

Give us your location so that we can give you more specific advice (for example, where to go buy your piano.  The right seller makes a big difference).

The Young Chang sounds overpriced.  For 10 k you can buy an entirely decent 6 footer brand new.

I second the Dongbei suggestion.  Good pianos.  Lot's of potential too.  If you are getting it raw, you should be able to getter much cheaper than $7K for the baby grand, though, I think (more like 5,500).

[pianistimo]

i was thinking what iumoto said about buying the young chang brand new. 

i bought a kawaii (only 5 years old or something) that was used as furniture at an estate sale.  it was never played and ended up being a great deal!  no sales tax.  could bargain.  the only thing is that we had to move it ourselves.  this was the more difficult part.  but, it doesn't have to be - depending on where you are putting it.  for us, it was the upstairs floor of our house (with balcony).  i still remember the piano way up in the air and watching it swing slightly. 

preference for me is the young chang or kawaii model.  they don't have a cheap sound.  you can control the pedals better (more variety of pedalling - and not just a little 1/4 inch playpiano pedal feel) and they STAY IN TUNE. 

get a new piano - used!  check the hammers to see if there is still plenty of felt on them.  check all the strings by playing up the keyboard and see if any buzz.  bring your teacher and whatever needs fixing, have the person selling it fix it for you.  check to see if they have the registration card, key, and how many times it's been tuned (tuners names).  if it has been played infrequently, you might just get yourself  a deal.  but, you might have to pay cash.

[amanfang]

I have never liked Young Chang.  It does sound overpriced.

[kamike]

It is great that you are willing to further your son's piano interest by purchasing a better instrument.  Few kids have this kind of support, and I applaud you.

Might I kindly suggest NOT rushing into this for a Christmas present?  IT would be a mistake.  Run to the bookstore and get Larry Fines Piano Book, or order it on line at:

https://www.pianobook.com/

Since it is apparent that you have little basis for making a decision, other than budget, I strongly suggest that you pay a reputable, independent (i.e. not associated with the piano dealer) piano technician to give you advice and inspect any prospective instruments, thoroughly.  This will cost added money, but will, in the long run, be the best money you can spend.

Be aware that many pianos manufactured by the same company in the same factory are completely different in sound and touch.  Many of the Chinese pianos are inconsistent in quality of build and sound.  You absolutely MUST treat each as a one-off individual.  Yamaha and Kawaii  pianos are much more consistent. 

Your decision should be a combination of your son's playing the piano, the technicians advice, and lastly, your budget.   Considering that a piano is such a milestone and important factor in your son's musical career, it would be better to spend as much as possible or required to suit his needs.  If you are in the position to take a loan out for this purchase, IMHO a piano is one of the best things you could get a loan for.  A good one will pay dividends of many kinds for many, many years.

Best of luck, and please contact the forum again and tell us of your progress.

[jolly]

Lots of things changing in the piano industry at this winter's NAMM.

The best piano coming out of China may be....

Weinbach......

[pianorama]

Might I kindly suggest NOT rushing into this for a Christmas present?  IT would be a mistake. 

I agree. If your son's birthday is in the spring or late winter, consider getting a piano for that, not Christmas. It is already only 3 days to Christmas, and I personally think it is too late.
Best luck in finding a good, affordable piano.

[pianorama]

So, what did you decide to do? Christmas Day is already almost over. Are you going to wait for his birthday? When is your son's birthday?