Grand Pianos and ect

[nixo1000]

I am in the market to buy a new Grand Piano, and I need advice. What is a good price for a grand piano between the sizes of  6 f to 6'7. Is paying 22,000 dollars to much, please help.... 

[pianorama]

No, $22,000 is not too much, unless it is a asian piano. If you think it is inferior, it is definately too much, but if you like it, that's probably a reasonable price. For the quality I think you want, you should pay $15,000-$30,000. DO NOT pay more than $30,000 unless you are truly in love with that piano, or if you know you can afford it.

[g_s_223]

This other forum at PW is quite good on instruments (but less good on repertoire etc): https://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/forum/1.html

[torakusu]

Kind of a sweeping answer above based on so little information from the initial question.

6-6.7 is a good size range, but what other criteria do you have? $22k in that range will mean either used or "asian," many of which are excellent. (And where did the "DO NOT" pay more than $30K come from?)

What have you played that you liked–didn't like–is $22k your upper limit or does it relate to a piano you played and liked?

[iumonito]

I don't think that's right.  There are plenty of good European pianos in that price range.

Querendo invenietis.

[nixo1000]

I'am looking for a new grand piano, perferably steinway and sons.

[pianorama]

Kind of a sweeping answer above based on so little information from the initial question.

(And where did the "DO NOT" pay more than $30K come from?)

I say that because well, first of all, I am trying to guess what quality he (she?) wants. I am guessing a fairly nice piano, but not so much it will blow his check book. You can get a fine piano for under $30,000 if shop smart.

I'am looking for a new grand piano, perferably steinway and sons.

HAHA! Sorry to laugh, but a Steinway & Sons piano under $ 22,000 is funny. (For that size range, anyway.) And, in my opinion, life goes farther than Steinway. Steinway's are quite good, but they are overpriced. Try looking at Yamaha or Kawai. Most of their pianos are reasonably priced and are good quality. DO NOT rush into buying a piano, try lots of brands and models before you choose. Just because 1 Yamaha piano sucks doesn't mean they all suck, and vice versa.

        Good Luck, keep us posted

                              Lowell

[nixo1000]

Thanks

[kamike]

nixo,
I think what they are saying is that, for your stated budget, you cannot expect to find a new Steinway in that size range.  New Steinways in that size range have list retail prices in the range of $55,000 to over $60,000.  You can expect to be able pay less than the retail list price, but it won't get that low.  There is nothing wrong with a Steinway.  Each are individuals, just like any other piano.

Might I suggest that you begin a serious study of all pianos.  Get Larry Fine's book "The Piano Book" and read all about them - new and used.  There are also many excellent used pianos available - some rebuilt - that might suit your style and budget.  Call some local piano technicians and ask for some advice.   Some technicians rebuild pianos and then resell them.

In my recent search for a piano, I found some excellent used, rebuilt, grand pianos in this range.

And spend a lot of time playing these pianos.  Find one that speaks to you.

[pianorama]

nixo,
I think what they are saying is that, for your stated budget, you cannot expect to find a new Steinway in that size range.  New Steinways in that size range have list retail prices in the range of $55,000 to over $60,000.  You can expect to be able pay less than the retail list price, but it won't get that low.  There is nothing wrong with a Steinway.  Each are individuals, just like any other piano.

Might I suggest that you begin a serious study of all pianos.  Get Larry Fine's book "The Piano Book" and read all about them - new and used.  There are also many excellent used pianos available - some rebuilt - that might suit your style and budget.  Call some local piano technicians and ask for some advice.   Some technicians rebuild pianos and then resell them.

In my recent search for a piano, I found some excellent used, rebuilt, grand pianos in this range.

And spend a lot of time playing these pianos.  Find one that speaks to you.

Exactly. That is what I was trying to say.

[gfiore]

 Steinway prices, a few months old, so they have risen a bit.
 All prices are for satin ebony finish. The most a S&S dealer will discount is 10% off these MSRP prices. So, unless you up the budget, forget a new or used  Steinway.
 Model S $42,100
 Model M $45,500
 Model L $52,800
 Model B $65,800

[nixo1000]

My gosh, I had no Idea Steinways were priced in that manner. My teacher has a concert grand by Baldwin, and I personally do not like the sound, so if I go and buy a Steinway or yamaha will I get that deep rich sound that I hear in many recordings.

[gfiore]

 That deep rich sound you hear on recordings has been electronicaaly altered to suit the the acoustic corrections necessary for optimum sound.
 You sound like a novice. I suggest you go out to the dealers and play as many different brands as you can find. Your ears and fingers will tell you what is best for you. I will also state that what sounds good on the dealers floor will not always sound the same in the acoustic environment of the home. This is why after delivery, many pianists have their pianos voiced to custom tailor them to the rooms acoustics.
 At the $20,000, you're in the range of many of the smaller grands from the Japanese and Korean manufacturers. The tier one grands from most of the top European manufacturers start in the $50,000 range and go up to $180,000 for the concert grand models. At most you can get around 20% of of the MSRP prices.

[kamike]

Maybe yes, maybe no.  

What you have to understand is that just because it's a Steinway is not guarantee that it will sound a certain way.   There are so many variables involved, partly because pianos are such complex instruments.

Based on your stated budget it would be surprising if you could not find a terrific instrument - either new or used.  Some of the "cheaper" grand pianos are truly good values and sound good, but you will have to do a lot of work to ferret out the good from the bad.   Many of the "cheaper" grands cost less because they are mass-produced with less quality control over materials and workmanship.  That means that there will be a  bigger standard deviation (if you could measure it) in terms of sound and touch.  It doesn't mean that you can't find an excellent piano, just that it will be harder to find one.  It also means that these pianos may have some long-term issues with reliability (i.e. stay in tune) and maintenance, and that there may not be as much opportunity to adjust voicing or regulation.    

High-end pianos, like the Steinway, are built with much more individual attention, often very old but tested and successful scale designs, top-notch materials, proprietary methods of construction, high-end mechanical parts, and more focus on quality control.  This takes more time, higher materials costs, and hence, more money.  The trade-off is that you have an instrument with more flexibility in terms of successfully changing how it sounds and plays (voicing and regulation), more consistency in overall quality of sound and touch, and one that will stay in tune longer and have fewer long-term problems.

I am sure that there are many of us here that envy your position and wish we had that kind of budget and the chance to shop for a grand piano.  Good luck.
 

[gfiore]

 I would hardly say the NY Steinway has a very high focus on quality control. You must be thinking Hamburg Steinways. And the Steinway scale designs are far from being top notch. They are relying on name recognition to obtain the obscene prices that they demand. There are plenty of European makers that far outshine Steinway in terms of high quality materials, scale designs, and quality control during the manufacturing processes.

[Axtremus]

No, $22,000 is not too much, unless it is a asian piano.

Not so. The 6'6" and larger Yamahas and Kawais can easily go past that figure, and those are good instruments.

For nixo, definitely go visit more piano stores and play as many different pianos as you can. Then you can make a better informed decision.

Curios though... why $22,000? Do you already have a prospect piano in mind?

[pianorama]

Not so. The 6'6" and larger Yamahas and Kawais can easily go past that figure, and those are good instruments.

For nixo, definitely go visit more piano stores and play as many different pianos as you can. Then you can make a better informed decision.

Curios though... why $22,000? Do you already have a prospect piano in mind?

Yamaha's and Kawai's aren't Asian, their Japanese. Oh wait. I just realised Japan is part of Asia. Anyways, I consider them different, as I think they are better quality.

[nixo1000]

Thanks for the responds, apperantly there is still much i have to learn.

[jolly]

I'am looking for a new grand piano, perferably steinway and sons.

Well....you've got a good down payment. 

Seriously, for 22K, ya got options. Don't know where you live, so I'm thinking American dollars.

First, Japanese. Either a Kawai RX-3, or a Yamaha C3. The Yammie is a nice piano.

Second, Eastern European. Think Estonia, Petrof, Vogel, Irmler.  Some nice pianos in that group.

Third, used. Try to find a 7 foot Baldwin...the SF10. Very good piano, can run with about anything. Or a CW190, 6'4' American-sound, well-built.

Fourth, rebuilt. Everything depends on the rebuilder. There are good ones and bad ones. For a tour of a good one, drop by Cuningham's in Philly if you get the chance.

[helga]

The tier one grands from most of the top European manufacturers start in the $50,000 range and go up to $180,000 for the concert grand models. At most you can get around 20% of of the MSRP prices.

Gfiore: I don't think one can generalize like that. I bought German pianos and both times I got over 30% off the purchase price. There are lots of factors influencing a particular dealer's price (how they pay for their inventory, rental fees, overhead expenses, etc.). Many of these details are unknown to the buyer who is often times left to guess whether he/she is offered a good deal. Much depends on a buyer's negotiating skills and a will to walk away from the deal. That's when a buyer often times finds out if the offer was fair or not. A dealer wants to sell, and will make the next move if there is a good chance that he'll be able to do just that.
That said, there are several excellent European makes that could realistically be purchased in that price range or slightly over $22000. Estonia is one example. Petrof is also a very solid make. It's all a matter of personal taste. But, again, if dark, mellow sound is what's needed, there are quite a few choices out there.

Helga

[chiyo]

Check these guys out.  They sell used grands.

https://rickjonespianos.com/grands.htm

Now, I've never purchased from them or anything, just heard about them from a friend.