Playing Two Against Three

[dough_mouse]

Do any of you have any tips for playing two against three, or any differring rhythms against each other?

[m1469]

Well, the way I teach it is as follows :

1.  Thinking it through.

Figure out which sounds fall where.  The second note of the triplet will come before the second note of the duplet.... etc.


2.  Hearing the combination of rhythms as one sound. 

Tap triplets with one hand on knee, and duplets with the other on other knee.  Aim is to achieve a certain rhythmic sound overall.   Once this is accomplished, take just two notes on the piano and instead of tapping on legs, play them out on the piano like when tapping.  (Change the triplets and duplets between hands).  First without changing notes, but once you get the hang of it, use the written notes.


Hope that helps

m1469

[quantum]

The trick is recognizing the rhythmic pattern of the combined beats. 

Use this phrase "Nice cup of tea".   Say it out loud. 
This is equivalent to:
3/4 time: Quarter note, eighth, eighth, quarter. 

Now RH 3, LH 2.  Beat on your thighs:
Together, R, L, R.  (keep looping the pattern, to the rhythm of the phrase above)

For RH 2, LH 3:
Togeether, L, R, L

....

Now once you get that there is an excercise to further develop your skill on it. 

For the following count OUT LOUD only one pattern: either in 3 or in 2. 

R 3, L 2, count in 3
R 2, L 3, count in 3
R 2, L 3, count in 2
R 3, L 2, count in 2

Play the pattern continuously, without stopping rhythm as you change the variation.  The pattern loops so when you finish the 4th variation, you go back to the 1st one. 

....

For future reference the pattern for 3 against 4:

The rhyme: "Pass the golden butter"
3/4 time: dotted eighth, sixteenth, eighth, eighth, sixteenth, dottend eighth

R 4, L 3:
Together, R, L, R, L, R

R 3, L 4:
Together, L, R, L, R, L


Exercise:

R 4, L 3, count in 3
R 4, L 3, count in 4
R 3, L 4, count in 4
R 3, L 4, count in 3

[fuel925]

You might find some of the replies in a thread I made useful:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,14810.0.html

[thalbergmad]

 

Use this phrase "Nice cup of tea".   Say it out loud. 

That is exactly how i was taught.

Felt rather silly doing it at the time, but it works.

[zheer]

That is exactly how i was taught.

Felt rather silly doing it at the time, but it works.

   Haw can saying nice cups of tea , be of any help. Please dont explain.

[dough_mouse]

Ok, thanks a bunch. That "nice cup of tea" thing works pretty well actually.

[quantum]

   Haw can saying nice cups of tea , be of any help. Please dont explain.

Ok, I'll just elaborate then 


When we talk we speak in rhythm, although we don't usually notice it.  Try saying any moderately long sentence where all syllables of all words are evenly spaced.  You sure will notice something sounds wrong when doing that. 

Shakeaspere considedered rhythm an important part when writing many of his works.  That's why somtimes they sound like they work like phrases in music. 

Anyways, we have all learned aurally the rhythms of natural speach and we use it every day.  It is this familiarity with speach rhythms that is used to aid learning of polyrhythms.  We would have to make a strong concious effort to speak out of rhythm. 

Similarly, we would have to make a strong concious decision to walk unevenly (presuming we have no physical imparements).  Walking is our own built in metronome, and when a student cannot keep an even rhythm pattern just ask them to clap while walking around the room.  This may fix the problem quite quickly. 

[zheer]

Thanks quantum, i see what you mean, and the first thing that came to my mind was rap music.