\"\"
Piano Forum logo

Mazeppa (Read 8136 times)

Offline lau

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1080
Mazeppa
« on: January 03, 2006, 05:49:19 AM »
I started learning this song 2 days ago. Any helpful hints? Anything would be great.

i'm not asian

Offline klavierkonzerte

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 210
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #1 on: January 03, 2006, 07:11:08 AM »
here's a hint
 
it's not a song  it's an etude.

Offline fliszt

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #2 on: January 03, 2006, 11:44:31 AM »
i dont think they get the hint :p seems pretty difficult for people to call things by the right name

Offline etudes

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 812
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #3 on: January 03, 2006, 02:16:56 PM »
practice melody in rh  with the bass in lh without thirds running in the middle
then practice only the double thirds run hands crossing in the middble
then put it together
octave practice only 1st finger HS then 5th finger HS then 1st Finger HT then 5th Finger HT
then octave together after you get it shut off your eyes in the octave jumps and practice it!
i never play it but many of my friends play it
use 2413
the pianist that use 2424 is Kocsis i dont know if anybody else
Piano = my life
My life = piano

Offline brahmsian

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 262
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #4 on: January 03, 2006, 03:17:19 PM »
here's a hint
 
it's not a song it's an etude.


 ::)
Chuck Norris didn't lose his virginity- he systematically tracked it down and destroyed it.

Offline maxy

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 650
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #5 on: January 03, 2006, 10:49:09 PM »
tsk tsk

do it 2-4 2-4 it's all about freedom of arms.  It's actually very well conceived.  Most of the time you can move only one hand at a time.

working the thirds only will not help you that much on a mechanical level, because in the action, the jumps between the octaves and the thirds are quite important.  Actually most of the big jumps are between the last third played by LH and the octave that follows in the low register. 

Offline musicsdarkangel

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 975
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #6 on: January 03, 2006, 11:09:58 PM »
my hint would be to practice slowly and make sure that you're relaxed the whole time.


It is easy to be tense when playing this...... which is why it's dangerous.

Offline lau

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1080
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #7 on: January 17, 2006, 02:36:16 AM »
After doing a little search on mazeppa on this sight, I am getting worried. Everybody says that Mazeppa is harder than la campanella. Mazeppa doesn't even seem hard to me. It seems just as hard as Fantasy impromptu if not easier. I have the first 2 pages learned. But does it just seem like this because I haven't gotten to the hard part yet?
i'm not asian

Offline pita bread

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1137
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #8 on: January 17, 2006, 03:33:11 AM »
It's not particularly hard when you're at a very slow tempo and relaxed. Depending on your span, the middle section may be a beast.

Offline yoshiki

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 51
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #9 on: January 20, 2006, 01:34:43 PM »
It is no way that it is easier than the Fantasy impromptu!
I agree with Pita bread that it is because you only played slowly (haven't leart the whole + not up to concert standard) and once you try to play it up to speed........oh my god it will be so difficult.
La campanella is nit easy either.
If Mazeppa is a "song" that is easier than the FI, why didn't I see posts like: am I ready to learn Mazeppa while I saw tons of post asking should I learn the impromptu  ;D
Hope to hear something from you in the auditon room  :)

Offline maxy

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 650
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #10 on: January 20, 2006, 05:11:26 PM »
After doing a little search on mazeppa on this sight, I am getting worried. Everybody says that Mazeppa is harder than la campanella. Mazeppa doesn't even seem hard to me. It seems just as hard as Fantasy impromptu if not easier. I have the first 2 pages learned. But does it just seem like this because I haven't gotten to the hard part yet?

sure...  ::)   we are all a bunch of morons.  Fantasy Impromptu is much harder than Mazeppa, but you must keep that a secret...

Offline pita bread

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1137
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #11 on: January 21, 2006, 01:10:56 AM »
The 2-4 2-4 for thirds makes it so much easier, they just bounce.

Offline mikey6

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1406
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #12 on: January 21, 2006, 01:29:27 AM »
Someone said that Liszt's 'showy' fingering is hopeless and a waste of time  :-\
anywho, Liszt writes fingering in for a reason - he was afterall probably the greatest pianist the world has seen and knew what he was doing so I would advise his fingering.
Never look at the trombones. You'll only encourage them.
Richard Strauss

Offline cherub_rocker1979

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 647
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #13 on: January 21, 2006, 02:41:16 AM »
The 2-4 2-4 for thirds makes it so much easier, they just bounce.

I use 4-2 going to 3-1 for the thirds.  I stay really close to the keys and I play them slightly detached, just as if I was using 4-2 4-2; this avoids tension and increases accuracy because this reduces the amount of movement your hands have to make.  This makes playing it faster a lot easier for me and I still get the same sound.  Pianists who have the abilily to play extraordinarily fast make these kinds of modifications all the time.  Ultimately you have to use whatever works best for YOU.

Offline steinwaymodeld

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 468
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #14 on: January 21, 2006, 05:49:07 AM »
After doing a little search on mazeppa on this sight, I am getting worried. Everybody says that Mazeppa is harder than la campanella. Mazeppa doesn't even seem hard to me. It seems just as hard as Fantasy impromptu if not easier. I have the first 2 pages learned. But does it just seem like this because I haven't gotten to the hard part yet?

people like u amuse me
Perfection itself is imperfection - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline stevie

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2803
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #15 on: January 21, 2006, 06:43:25 AM »
people like u amuse me

jeff, are you sure you know what kind of people he is?

he can either be -

really stupid, and naive

or, pretending to be stupid and naive for CG purposes

either way, i agree, amusing.

Offline lau

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1080
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #16 on: January 21, 2006, 06:09:22 PM »
It is no way that it is easier than the Fantasy impromptu!
I agree with Pita bread that it is because you only played slowly (haven't leart the whole + not up to concert standard) and once you try to play it up to speed........oh my god it will be so difficult.
La campanella is nit easy either.
If Mazeppa is a "song" that is easier than the FI, why didn't I see posts like: am I ready to learn Mazeppa while I saw tons of post asking should I learn the impromptu ;D
Hope to hear something from you in the auditon room :)

I actually play it up to speed. Not that hard. But is that hard part after the first 2 pages?
i'm not asian

Offline systen

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 24
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #17 on: January 21, 2006, 06:23:25 PM »
Mazeppa is a great piece, but to make it sound like it should sound is quite hard I think. Playing the first two pages up to speed is quite nice already though, keep up the good work.

I also use the 4-2, 4-2 fingering for the thirds. You can really add power if you play the thirds with 4-2, 4-2 fingering imo.

People who think that Mazeppa is a "quite easy" piece are completely wrong with that. This piece is challenging and quite difficult to memorize. Though, it's fun to play and that's what piano playing is all about, right?


If you finishied this piece, I'd love to hear a recording from you of it in the audition room!

Offline lau

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1080
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #18 on: January 21, 2006, 11:17:16 PM »
I don't have the equipment to record my playing
i'm not asian

Offline pita bread

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1137
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #19 on: January 22, 2006, 04:46:04 AM »
I don't have the equipment to record my playing

You guys all remember Thierry?

Offline brewtality

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 924
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #20 on: January 22, 2006, 05:00:46 AM »
I don't have the equipment to record my playing

How very convenient.

Offline lau

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1080
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #21 on: January 25, 2006, 02:39:16 AM »
You guys all remember Thierry?

no, I don't know. Why don't you tell me?
i'm not asian

Offline viking

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 567
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #22 on: January 25, 2006, 04:44:55 AM »
I wouldnt seriously learn Mazeppa unless you are an outstanding pianist, with several competitions under your belt.  There's no point learning it unless you can play it with reasonable perfection.  However, you can always fool around with the piece.

Offline steinwaymodeld

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 468
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #23 on: January 25, 2006, 06:29:09 AM »
jeff, are you sure you know what kind of people he is?

he can either be -

really stupid, and naive

or, pretending to be stupid and naive for CG purposes

either way, i agree, amusing.


stupid people are funny people.

"O. i can play Mary has a little lamb variation and fur elise hands-inverted, I think I am totally qualified to play feux follet with my toes, what y'all think?"
Perfection itself is imperfection - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline lau

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1080
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #24 on: January 26, 2006, 03:50:08 AM »
I wouldnt seriously learn Mazeppa unless you are an outstanding pianist, with several competitions under your belt. There's no point learning it unless you can play it with reasonable perfection. However, you can always fool around with the piece.

mazeppa shmaleppa. I can handle it. I don't understand what is so hard about it.

can somebody just tell me what is so hard about it?!?!?!  please, that's all I made this thread for and all you guys say is "I wouldn't go there if I were you"
i'm not asian

Offline lisztisforkids

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 906
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #25 on: January 26, 2006, 04:24:08 AM »
mazeppa shmaleppa. I can handle it. I don't understand what is so hard about it.

can somebody just tell me what is so hard about it?!?!?!  please, that's all I made this thread for and all you guys say is "I wouldn't go there if I were you"

It is true that I play pieces that many people consider very difficult, but which I consider easy. In MY perspective, and also people play pieces were they find it easy, and me very difficult. If you find Mazeppa easy for you, than who really cares? This is just an internet forum!
we make God in mans image

Offline lau

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1080
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #26 on: January 26, 2006, 04:27:20 AM »
and yet the question remains unanswered
i'm not asian

Offline maxy

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 650
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #27 on: January 26, 2006, 10:47:14 PM »
what question?

Offline steinwaymodeld

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 468
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #28 on: January 27, 2006, 05:38:38 AM »
and yet the question remains unanswered

the difficulty is roughly equal to play fantasie impromtu with your nuts.
Perfection itself is imperfection - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline lau

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1080
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #29 on: January 27, 2006, 05:47:24 AM »
The question is!!!!!!!!!!!:

What makes the piece so hard?

Answer:

nothing, in my perspective. Seriously, how, how can it be hard?!?!?!?

WHAT MAKES THIS PIECE SO HARD?!?!?! more like, what makes this peice as hard as cheese.

Ah, simile. You know it.   

 :'(   :-*   :-\   :-X   :-[   :P   ::)   ???   8)   :o   :(   >:(   ;)   :)   :D   ;D 

This is exactly what I am feeling right later.
i'm not asian

Offline maul

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #30 on: January 27, 2006, 06:11:22 AM »
Considering how bad you probably play it, it's not hard at all.

Offline pita bread

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1137
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #31 on: January 27, 2006, 06:24:35 AM »
Considering how bad you probably play it, it's not hard at all.

HAHAHA

Offline I Love Xenakis

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 422
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #32 on: January 27, 2006, 04:57:30 PM »
Considering how bad you probably play it, it's not hard at all.

***!  I <3 lau, but this comment is pure comedic genius


Maybe it's your short attention span Lau?  Anyways, to actually answer your question, and to very quickly summarize, it's difficult because it requires so many different virtuostic techniques, like parallel octaves, double notes, unpianistic chords, fast arpeggios, large and difficult leaps across the keyboard and some tricky pedalling too.  Plus everything you do, you do it really fast.



 :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)


Lau is my new PF hero ^^

Offline lau

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1080
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #33 on: January 27, 2006, 10:06:23 PM »
***! I <3 lau, but this comment is pure comedic genius


Maybe it's your short attention span Lau? Anyways, to actually answer your question, and to very quickly summarize, it's difficult because it requires so many different virtuostic techniques, like parallel octaves, double notes, unpianistic chords, fast arpeggios, large and difficult leaps across the keyboard and some tricky pedalling too. Plus everything you do, you do it really fast.

thanks, my question is finally answered!!!!

Then if I finish learning this, i guess i am a virtuoso.



 :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(
i'm not asian

Offline lau

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1080
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #34 on: January 27, 2006, 10:31:01 PM »
thats odd, this thread is in repetiore and students corner. i only put this in repetiour.
hmmm, and why did I just quote that and not even respond to it. somebody knows my password!
i'm not asian

Offline lau

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1080
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #35 on: January 27, 2006, 10:37:25 PM »
what the flap! Now this thread has left the repetioure section. nilly must have moved it without having that sick "MOVED: "   thing on it.
i'm not asian

Offline tompilk

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1247
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #36 on: January 28, 2006, 12:24:18 PM »
the difficulty is roughly equal to play fantasie impromtu with your nuts.

i did this at a school concert a week ago... it went down well with the crowd... 8)
Working on: Schubert - Piano Sonata D.664, Ravel - Sonatine, Ginastera - Danzas Argentinas

Offline erinf

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 8
Mazeppa
«Reply #37 on: December 30, 2008, 12:58:16 AM »
Is this edition of mazeppa different? you look at the score and then listen to it on you tube. theres loads missing. after the A Capriccio theres a huge sweeping motion that scales up and down (which isn't on this score) and then enters into the Allegro Patetico and theres loads missing at the ending. I don't get it. does anyone know why? i'd really appreciate it if you do.

Offline faulty_damper

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3931
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #38 on: December 30, 2008, 01:11:10 AM »
What edition are you referring to?  There is only one edition of Mazeppa from the Transcendental Studies.

Offline erinf

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 8
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #39 on: December 30, 2008, 11:35:20 PM »
are you sure theres only one? iv been listening to it on you tube and no one plays it like what the score reads theres a bit missing after the first line and the ending is different. you listen to arrau play mazeppa on you tube and tell me what you think. its completely different

Offline faulty_damper

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3931
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #40 on: December 31, 2008, 01:33:34 AM »
The first page of the score in this thread looks like the 2nd revision of Mazeppa, from Douze Grandes Etudes.  The Mazeppa that most people know come from the 3rd and final revision, the Transcendental Studies.  All of these revisions have their beginnings from 1826, the Etudes en douze excercices (Studies in 12 exercises), composed when Liszt was 14.  So in total, there are 3 versions of Mazeppa. 

Offline erinf

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 8
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #41 on: December 31, 2008, 04:51:20 AM »
oh ok. thanks thats really helpful. i don't suppose you know where i could get the score for the other versions at all?

Offline jlh

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2352
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #42 on: December 31, 2008, 06:09:25 AM »
The first page of the score in this thread looks like the 2nd revision of Mazeppa, from Douze Grandes Etudes.  The Mazeppa that most people know come from the 3rd and final revision, the Transcendental Studies.  All of these revisions have their beginnings from 1826, the Etudes en douze excercices (Studies in 12 exercises), composed when Liszt was 14.  So in total, there are 3 versions of Mazeppa. 

Perhaps lau is referring to the first edition of this etude published when Liszt was what, 15?  The DGE's are the most technically challenging, made for Liszt's personal use, and the TE's are his revision after noticing that at the time only a handful of pianists in the world could manage to play them...  The first edition of all these etudes are very easy by comparison.

lau, to which revision do you refer?
. ROFL : ROFL:LOL:ROFL : ROFL '
                 ___/\___
  L   ______/             \
LOL "\         [ ] \
  L              \_________)
                 ___I___I___/

Offline erinf

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 8
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #43 on: January 03, 2009, 07:44:13 AM »
ummmm... 3? i think? which edition is the one on this site? i want the one that everyone plays on you tube, with the longer ending and the big sweeping entry after the first line. which one is that?

Offline faulty_damper

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3931
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #44 on: January 03, 2009, 04:02:30 PM »
The third version is No.4 from the Transcendental Studies, the one most people play.

The one available on this site looks like it is from the Douze Grandes Etudes, the second version.

There is an indication at the big sweeping entry, which the composer indicates as a cadenza, can be of the performers own choosing.  In other words, the performer can choose to introduce the work with a cadenza of his own creation, though most pianists do not bother with it.

Offline erinf

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 8
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #45 on: January 04, 2009, 09:12:40 AM »
thanks, but if its a cadenza why do they all play it the same if its the players choice?, and where can i get a copy of the 3rd version?

Offline faulty_damper

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3931
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #46 on: January 05, 2009, 07:26:46 AM »
Because most pianists do not know what the best way to introduce this piece with their own idea and the composer provides one already, hence the same one.

Offline erinf

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 8
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #47 on: January 06, 2009, 03:52:48 AM »
makes sense.

Offline faulty_damper

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3931
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #48 on: January 08, 2009, 08:12:18 AM »
The International Music Score Library Project, http://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page, is an online library of public domain works.  You can usually find any publicly available works there.

The other option is to purchase them from your local music store.  It is most guaranteed to be in stock because of its popularity.

Offline erinf

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 8
Re: Mazeppa
«Reply #49 on: January 10, 2009, 09:56:33 PM »
Groovy, i'll have a look for it. thanks faulty.