whats the right age to have children?

[stevie]

hahaha, randomly

my sister is pregnant and expecting a baby girl in about a week, i was surprised randomly when i found out about it, she wanted to have children and had unprotected sex with a couple people, randomly.

naturally i thought this was stupid, but now the family is all ready to support her and the little girl, but still, she only just turned 19, and i think thats too young.

also, i think having kids when old is also a bit sheet because it causes health risks to the parent and the baby, after the age of 35, i heard.

profusely discuss.

[zheer]

Sounds very serious randomly. You said a couple of guys, ouch. Well does she know which one, and has she any contacts with him. Sorry am on my detective moad. Judging by your beliefs i guess you are not happy and am sure your parents are not over the moon. Yes 19 is far too young and yes 35 is getting too old, in ideal world a women ov 25 who has fallen in love with the lucky man and has a degree plus a career, hence financil stability could afford to have a baby provided they have married.
         Are you ready to be an uncle is your sister ready to be a mother?
It happens ,all the best

[leahcim]

It's 26.3521956342345.

Approximately.

[Kassaa]

LOL, nofi, but what your sister did was just dumb. Why didn't she wait untill she was married? She had sex with some guys, then you don't know who the father is, and whole her life will be over when she has the baby.

[danyal]

I have 3 friends whos mother is now about 60 and if their father was alive today, would be 89. They are 17, 19, 21. All excellent musicians, and perfectly healthy. This argues the statement that 35 is too old.

But yes, 19 is far too young to know what you are doing. Good luck, really. Is there any particular reason she wants a child? I think its rather selfish of her because now, its the family's problem as well and the girl is not going to be able to live the normal, stable life she deserves.

Whatever. Not my problem either.

[stevie]

no, she told us ages ago that she had unprotected sex with one guy, an old boyfriend, ages ago.

and that was just stupid, but she has had a longterm boyfriend now, and they have obviously had unprotected sex, and he is a nice guy, very approved by the family, he hangs out with us, and so the baby does have a father, i dont know for how long though.,...things may always change.

thing that shocked me was, she WANTED  a baby, and didnt really take into consideration what her family and parents would think, because they are actually the ones who will work the most!

true

[danyal]

heehee... Uncle Stevie??

Tell me, do you think she took into consideration the daily nappy changes and endless sleepless nights? Or is that just not her problem...? What I mean is, does she want the baby, or the cute child?

[leahcim]

do you think she took into consideration the daily nappy changes and endless sleepless nights?

That's a bit of a fantasy TBH, OTOH it is the sort of argument that might appeal to the lack of maturity it's trying to imply they are missing. In other words, if she buys that argument then she's not much idea of what having kids means.

Dirty nappies, a few disturbed nights and not being able to go out every Friday aren't the significant responsibilities with having a kid.

If you have endless kids you may have endless sleepness nights and endless nappies but for one kid [at least assuming the average healthy kid as some babies can be particularly difficult getting to sleep] that stage is over as quickly as it's begun and, if anything, it's the easiest part.

[pianistimo]

from my standpoint, it's just a matter of culture (and preparedness).  in some cultures women have babies earlier.  the pros:  you have energy.  your body works well and probably recovers well.  and, sounds like she has family support.  the cons:  you MIGHT be less patient (but not always), money is tighterm, if the father leaves you're stuck.

she probably has most things (ie crib, changing table, etc) set up.  one thing i found REALLY handy was a cheap little plastic doo-dad that you can put about 12 diapers stacked into and hangs off the side of the crib.  that way, you don't have to do a lot of bending.  after a baby, you really need help with meals, too, so freezing some ahead might be an idea.

good thing your parents are supporting her AND the guy.  the more help, probably the more likely they'll stay together.  if he takes an active role in finding or keeping his job and supporting her during the critical first three months (in which breastfeeding is quite advantageous to a healthy baby) - he'll have less health bills to worry about with a sick baby.

my experience:  had my first baby at 28 and my last at 40.  my last came in 11 minutes.  the first was about 6 1/2 hours.  if i were to give advice - don't go to the hospital right away.  they make you stay on your back in some hospitals and hook you up to wretched monotors which beep loudly and irritate the * out of you.  if the belt slips, they say - oh, the baby's heartbeat is going down - we have to take him/her by cesarean.  this is just plain stupid - and makes for many more cesareans than necessary.  thankfully, i pointed out the belt had slipped and despite my first baby being even on the slightly large size - i told them 'no', i wanted to try the natural labor as long as possible.  don't let anyone force you into anything!  say 'no' if you don't want a procedure.  obviously, sometimes they are right - so - just double check to see if they ARE.  my son was almost 9 lbs and came naturally.  a friend of mine had a 10 lb baby at home. 

the pain IS manageable in other ways.  for one, you have to help her monitor her breathing through the labor (so she doesn't breath too fast).  keep a brown bag around for hyperventilation.  labor is gradual - so it's definately something you can do at home for several hours (unless water is broken).  it's MUCHO more comfortable.  have her get into a warm tub - or just move around as she is able in the first few hours (they don't let you do this in the hospital - but it SPEEDS labor).  stop and lean on something when the contractions come and take breaths in through your nose and out through your mouth slowly blowing - trying to cover most all of the contraction with the blowing out. 

it REALLY helps to time the contractions because then you know what you are dealing with.  if you know you have five minutes in between, or three.  when you get to two and one - start heading to the hospital.  of course, every woman is different -s o don't take my word as the final.  but, labor can go on a long time for some and why not be comfortable as you can in your own surroundings.  it's quieter for the baby, too!

this is getting into the details, but many doctors are quick to snip, too, which IMO is rotten.  you take A LOT longer to recover with those nasty snips unless you have a super huge baby.  get a midwife QUICKLY and have her accompany the doctor for the sole purpose of perinial massage.  many doctor's don't do this and don't realize they could help the baby's head emerge just as well, with less trauma to the woman.  (of course, many doctors are male and have never had to deal with a baby AND pain afterwards).  they may be against having oil (due to baby breathing it in), but if your midwife puts a very tiny bit of olive oil, it probably won't do anything but facilitate the baby being born quickly.

i witness two home births and they were spectacular.  both were my best girlfriend.  i had read somewhere that a warm (sanitary) washcloth applied over the perineal area with just very slight counterpressure as the baby begins to crown eases pain to the delicate skin - so anyway - i aided the midwife by doing this - and my friend was sitting cross legged on the floor breastfeeding the very next day!  she told me it actually felt good and relieved pain, too.  recovery is nice!  (sorry for so much detail - but with a 19 year old you want a good outcome).

hope that this helps - and ask anything more!   -  pitocin makes the labor stronger and faster, which is harder to manage for some ladies whose labor doesn't progress naturally (sometimes with large babies).  just waiting for the right day is probably better.  don't try to have the baby on the due date!  they never come on due dates anyway.  try climbing stairs, taking long walks, and just remaining calm even if she goes a week or two past the date.  mine were all late.  the prelabor makes the actual labor less.

[pianistimo]

i thought of two more things.  having one of those wooden back rubbers or something comparable is very very nice.  the counterpressure to the baby descending helps her back pain lessen when rubbed (if she says ok).

it's very important to listen to the lady in labor.  don't do anything she says don't do.  and, a boyfriend/hubby close by at all times is really crucial to keeping up morale.  bring him his dinner or lunch and don't let him leave.  also, not having a lot of conversation is crucial to the amount of concentration needed to labor.  noise is distracting although music might be ok. 

oh, and one more thing!  i tried two different methods of feeding.  with my first child, on demand.  this leaves a woman tired, frazzled, unable to think.  with the second, scheduled ,but according to age of the baby.  obviously, with an infant, you have a lot more feedings!   and, sometimes, i'd break the rules, but not often -s o as to mix up the baby.  (travelling, at a restaurant, etc). 

gary ezzo has a book called 'babywise.'  get it for your sister if you want her to get back her normal routine within about three months.  my first baby took a year!  the second about three months to get a routine going.  my sister-in-law gave me this book.  it helps you put your schedule on the fridge and know what you are doing hour to hour, and day to day.  it makes you feel in control of your life (even if you are not particulary enured to the christian side of it).  also, it helps you get some sleep and your baby will be really much calmer.  and, as for critiques of this - my babies were all in the 100 percentile for weight.  (and happy, too)

[stevie]

haha, respect

but i have to randomly point out, i dont talk to my sister much, im working on my stuff most of the time, and id rather not massage my sisters vagina

[Tash]

man i'd love to have a baby right now except for the fact that i don't have a boyfriend let alone husband, or a job, or any kind of credentials to get a decent job, or my own house. so the poor child would have nothing!! and i'm 20. but i'm not gonna go having children for like another 7/8 years in my plans because i am definately not mature or responsible enough to have a child...however there's a sort of friend of mine (we went to school together and got on well but were'nt in the same group or anything) who got married straight after school and rumour has it she's pregnant now, so we're not really surprised, we're just like my god i cannot imagine being a parent at this age!!

[Siberian Husky]

the infamous Comme Le Vent an uncle?..

[pianistimo]

stevie, i wasn't suggesting this for you - but for her boyfriend or a doula.  she can probably hire a doula for much less than a midwife.  they just help you with whatever you want or need during and after labor (and at home!).  basically, the only requirements for a good doula is just a woman who's had a few children of her own and paid attention to the labor, delivery and breastfeeding aspects.

you're funny - but you have to get serious for that boyfriend's sake.  give him some good advice - and tell him to marry your sister quick this week before the baby comes.  unless your parents think it's a bad idea.

[yamagal]

oh, and one more thing!  i tried two different methods of feeding.  with my first child, on demand.  this leaves a woman tired, frazzled, unable to think.  with the second, scheduled ,but according to age of the baby.  obviously, with an infant, you have a lot more feedings!   and, sometimes, i'd break the rules, but not often -s o as to mix up the baby.  (travelling, at a restaurant, etc). 

gary ezzo has a book called 'babywise.'  get it for your sister if you want her to get back her normal routine within about three months.  my first baby took a year!  the second about three months to get a routine going.  my sister-in-law gave me this book.  it helps you put your schedule on the fridge and know what you are doing hour to hour, and day to day.  it makes you feel in control of your life (even if you are not particulary enured to the christian side of it).  also, it helps you get some sleep and your baby will be really much calmer.  and, as for critiques of this - my babies were all in the 100 percentile for weight.  (and happy, too)

Pianistimo, great childbirth advice, but I must disagree on recommending Ezzo's materials to a new mom or any mom.  The Ezzo method can and has resulted in failure to thrive babies, and many an Ezzo mom's milk has dried up too soon due to over scheduling (which Ezzo euphemistically calls following the "routine").  The Babywise edition I have includes bad advice such as (paraphrase), "If baby refuses to nurse when it's time to eat, make him wait until the next [scheduled] feeding... he'll only do that once."   Cruel and inhumane!  Even the American Academy of Pediatrics has issued a warning against Ezzo.  For more info, see Ezzo.info.

I would recommend Dr. Sears or Dr. Gordon's advice over Gary Ezzo's.  Sears and Gordon recommend "attachment parenting" (AP) which is what I and my husband practiced with each of our 5 babies.  I would say AP is instinctual parenting free of artificial schedules.  AP respects the mother/baby dyad as a natural unit to be encouraged rather than separated by manmade "routines" and gadgets. 

As to the original question, 19 is a splendid age physically to begin childbearing, but in this culture, it's usually not so great emotionally/socially.  Also, 35 is not too old to be having babies, mother's health permitting.  I and my current and previous midwives know a lot of moms who have had healthy babies well into their 40's. 

[pianistimo]

interesting that you have researched this all, too.  i tried dr. sears method with my son.  he was extrememly dependent on me - moreso than my daughters and cried a lot more for attention.  my middle daughter, i tried dr. ezzo's method - but modified it.  i WOULD feed her longer - or just let her sleep - and sometimes she would sleep in my bed  - but it was mostly in the crib. 

the two outcomes have been most interesting.  my son is very very close to me.  and we have a bond that is nice.  he allows me to grab him and kiss him on the forehead or the cheek and he sometimes gives me a hug and is affectionate.  my daughter is less 'emotional' if you want to call it that, very organized, very self-directed, and is less into the hugs and kisses.  in fact, i have to chase her around to get one.  or, if she is going out the door, she tries to avoid them by leaving really quick.  she knows i love her - but she is less 'physical.'

what is really hard is to get a moderation between the two techniques.  to have a semi-schedule - to give as much time as your baby needs to feed and play and sleep - to have energy for yourself to do the things you need to do.  AND, to touch your children enough.  i thought i did enough for my middle daughter - because i was into massage also, and after a bath - i would give them a massage with lotion, etc.  so i never avoided touching my babies - but i can't figure out why my daughter is sort of 'don't touch me.'

maybe it's a phase?

anyway, now with the four year old - i tried a more modified version of the two approaches.  i scheduled things, but then i forgot my schedule a lot.  and, if she cried - i pretty much picked her up -changed and/or fed her - sometimes put her in our bed.  and, she's more on the physical hugs and kisses side.  (middle daughter pretty much slept in the crib).

the only downside is that my husband sometimes gets kicked out of bed.  we don't have the privacy that dr. ezzo's method does give you when your child sleeps alone in another room peacefully.  and if you don't work that one out right away - they'll be in your bed as much as they can.  my four year old comes in at 2 am - i move over and she just peacefully takes over the bed.  sprawling.  i scoot over, my husband falls off the bed.

so, in essence, i am not arguing with you.  the only thing women sometimes need is that privacy at night with hubby.  thankfully mine is worn down enough that on the times she sneaks into bed (every other night) he's too tired to care and either puts up with it or moves to the couch.  maybe a date night and locked door work - seems that if we tell them we're busy they all know (from the four year old on up) what we're up to.  people that have five children generally have the ideas of parenting down pretty well.  close families are nice!  i don't know why mine fight so much.  i try to be peaceful but, they just vie for attention - and often drive me crazy unless i am right there doing some activity with them.  parenting takes a lot of forethought and planning - whatever you do.  if you have some idea of what you are going to do, it's better than having no plan at all!

[yamagal]

Pianistimo, you are right about needing to find a balance.  It can be easy to get either Sears or Ezzo out of balance:  Sears - moms experiencing burnout;  Ezzo - moms (and dads) - experiencing blunted responsiveness to their babies' needs.  And with toddlers and older, the risks of going too far either way remain, if parents are not mindful:  with Sears (AP), parents can fall into permissiveness, though Sears clearly teaches parents are in authority;  with Ezzo, parents can fall into overcontrolling and punitive habits, though Ezzo teaches flexibility is needed at times.  I will admit that a child who is temperamentally resilient or easygoing will do fine emotionally with either Sears or Ezzo, though with Ezzo, the risk is higher that baby's nutritional needs will not be adequately met (see link in previous post).

For babies, I tend to prefer AP/Sears because I feel it more closely follows Jesus' teaching of "unto the least of these", and because it has helped me ensure my babies get all the nutrition they need (because I rely on their hunger cues).  Sears wrote a wonderful book, unfortunately now out of print, titled The Ministry of Parenting Your Baby, that explains the former concept beautifully.

I must say too that the Sears/Kurcinka approach (Kurcinka wrote Raising Your Spirited Child) does not seem to work with all (older) children.  Our 4th child, now age 4, is extremely strong willed;  in fact I have never seen anyone else with such a difficult personality (besides my father!)  The Sears/Kurcinka approach, which is rather talky, with lots of "choices" and "reflecting the child's feelings back to him" has not been working.  Our son does better with clear, simple limits and not so much talk.  He also thrives when given tasks to do, such as helping push baby brother in the stroller (with me mainly doing the pushing).  I think it means a lot to him to feel needed and useful - he seems much happier and calmer than when I was simply "waiting on him" and giving him lots of hugs and affirmations (cause he went thru a jealous period after #5 was born).

Your insights into how a child "turns out", whether affectionate or reserved, square with what I have seen among families that have used Sears, Ezzo or both (one method with one child, another with the next).  In our family, Sears/AP has, I feel, helped our children to be for the most part secure in themselves, and to get along well.  They do argue at times, but for the most part, play well with each other and with other kids.

As for the family bed cramping the parents' style - that's why we have a crib in our room.  Baby is not always in our bed.  By the time the youngest is around 3 (or sooner if I am pregnant), he gets transitioned to sharing sleep w/ next older sib, and from there, to his own bed in a room shared w/ sibs.  Our kids have not had trouble with staying in bed, being scared of the dark, or other bedtime issues that plague so many kids in American culture (with the exception of our oldest son once having scary dreams when we unwittingly allowed him to watch a movie that scared him - I forget what it was). 

It sounds like you have achieved a good balance with your kids and that you and your husband are sensitive and mindful parents.  Ezzo or Sears (or whatever) works best that way - when we use a "take the best and ditch the rest" approach.  Use what applies to your family - needs and personalities - and disregard what doesn't work or leaves you and baby feeling "not right".

P.S.  FWIW, Gary Ezzo is not a doctor, neither of medicine or otherwise.  His wife is a registered nurse with experience in pediatrics.

[pianistimo]

Pianistimo, you are right about needing to find a balance.  It can be easy to get either Sears or Ezzo out of balance:  Sears - moms experiencing burnout;  Ezzo - moms (and dads) - experiencing blunted responsiveness to their babies' needs.  And with toddlers and older, the risks of going too far either way remain, if parents are not mindful:  with Sears (AP), parents can fall into permissiveness, though Sears clearly teaches parents are in authority;  with Ezzo, parents can fall into overcontrolling and punitive habits, though Ezzo teaches flexibility is needed at times.  I will admit that a child who is temperamentally resilient or easygoing will do fine emotionally with either Sears or Ezzo, though with Ezzo, the risk is higher that baby's nutritional needs will not be adequately met (see link in previous post).

For babies, I tend to prefer AP/Sears because I feel it more closely follows Jesus' teaching of "unto the least of these", and because it has helped me ensure my babies get all the nutrition they need (because I rely on their hunger cues).  Sears wrote a wonderful book, unfortunately now out of print, titled The Ministry of Parenting Your Baby, that explains the former concept beautifully.

I must say too that the Sears/Kurcinka approach (Kurcinka wrote Raising Your Spirited Child) does not seem to work with all (older) children.  Our 4th child, now age 4, is extremely strong willed;  in fact I have never seen anyone else with such a difficult personality (besides my father!)  The Sears/Kurcinka approach, which is rather talky, with lots of "choices" and "reflecting the child's feelings back to him" has not been working.  Our son does better with clear, simple limits and not so much talk.  He also thrives when given tasks to do, such as helping push baby brother in the stroller (with me mainly doing the pushing).  I think it means a lot to him to feel needed and useful - he seems much happier and calmer than when I was simply "waiting on him" and giving him lots of hugs and affirmations (cause he went thru a jealous period after #5 was born).

Your insights into how a child "turns out", whether affectionate or reserved, square with what I have seen among families that have used Sears, Ezzo or both (one method with one child, another with the next).  In our family, Sears/AP has, I feel, helped our children to be for the most part secure in themselves, and to get along well.  They do argue at times, but for the most part, play well with each other and with other kids.

As for the family bed cramping the parents' style - that's why we have a crib in our room.  Baby is not always in our bed.  By the time the youngest is around 3 (or sooner if I am pregnant), he gets transitioned to sharing sleep w/ next older sib, and from there, to his own bed in a room shared w/ sibs.  Our kids have not had trouble with staying in bed, being scared of the dark, or other bedtime issues that plague so many kids in American culture (with the exception of our oldest son once having scary dreams when we unwittingly allowed him to watch a movie that scared him - I forget what it was). 

It sounds like you have achieved a good balance with your kids and that you and your husband are sensitive and mindful parents.  Ezzo or Sears (or whatever) works best that way - when we use a "take the best and ditch the rest" approach.  Use what applies to your family - needs and personalities - and disregard what doesn't work or leaves you and baby feeling "not right".

P.S.  FWIW, Gary Ezzo is not a doctor, neither of medicine or otherwise.  His wife is a registered nurse with experience in pediatrics.

ahhh.  i was trying to use your quote 'take the best and ditch the rest' because i like that a lot.  it is really a good idea to consider your own family and it's approach and not take everything literally.  as you said - some methods don't work as well for others because of their own style.  my four year old also shares a bed with sibling.  only last night did she ask to sleep in her own bed.  but, with me, too.  so, i get her to sleep most of the night there.  my crutches made a monster, so we talked about monsters and how they can be shadows.  she is so funny sometimes.  she, of the two girls is the most 'girlie.'  she is very emotional and cries easily.  she is scared easily.  and so last night was hunkered down under the sheets while i was telling her about shadows.  she just fell asleep after so much talking and i snuck out. 

[deja vu]

The right age to have children is never. There should be a law against it.

I know that would be potentially problematic. But I don't wanna be the one to have a kid. Never ever.

[leahcim]

The right age to have children is never. There should be a law against it.

There is, but I think you've read the thread title in the vernacular.

[thalbergmad]

The right age to have children is never. There should be a law against it.

I know that would be potentially problematic. But I don't wanna be the one to have a kid. Never ever.

I certainly have no intention of adding to the population. I do not understand why people want the bloody things.

[leahcim]

I certainly have no intention of adding to the population. I do not understand why people want the bloody things.

Pensions. Oh and fear of countries that #$%#$ like rabbits taking over the world.

[stevie]

The right age to have children is never. There should be a law against it.

I know that would be potentially problematic. But I don't wanna be the one to have a kid. Never ever.

aww but kids are so cute...

[pianistimo]

when they're all behaving and sitting around the dinner table (eating something they like) i feel really great about my parenting.  or, just sitting with you and talking.  basically anything.  i love my children.  but, there are times you just wonder if you were cut out for it.  they test the boundaries of everything you say.

i would definately have children again.  and, i wouldn't be so fearful.  it's like piano.  the more you practice, the better you feel you are becoming.  and, even if you're not the perfect parent, who is?  you just have to emulate what others do that seems successful.  i used to keep a diary of my children, too, and it's funny to go back and read them now.

[ada]

well here's a different perspective on having a child young. I had my son when I was just 20. His father and I were students and a baby wasn't planned, but for some reason, which I still don't entirely  understand, we decided to have it.

we were pretty wild at the time and he didn't really change our lifestyle. We still partied madly, and backpacked with him in tow. We were living in a big share house at the time and there was always someone to look after him. It was a good, if unconventional,  environment for a child to grow up in.

I finished my degree and got a job in a profession where I remain today.

Now he's just about grown up. It's been (sorry to use a horrid cliche) a juggle but we've come through. I've since had two more, although it's been a little less full-on. I've never stopped working and I've never defined myself primarily as a parent.

I guess my point is that having a baby isn't the be-all-and-end-all; your life doesn't end just  because you become a parent. There were also benefits to having a baby young, I was fit and strong and full of energy. A baby just had to fit in with my life, I didn't change my life to suit a baby. I think people can tend to become too precious and analytical about becoming a parent.

I'm not advocating it and I can't vouch for what my life would have been like if I hadn't gone through with the pregnancy at the age I did. But I did it and in retrospect I think my life has been richer for it.

The one real cost was that I stopped playing the piano for most of his childhood; I didn't have a piano and I didn't have time and I just wasn't in the right head space for it. But I'm back now. I never lost the yearning to play or the enjoyment in it.

[Jacey1973]

Well primarily - my plan is to find the perfect, supportive, loving husband first - and just be a married couple for a few (perhaps 3 or 4?) years before we have children. Mainly so we can really get to know each other and be sure that we will stay together for life.

At the moment (for around the next 10 years perhaps) i want to concentrate on my career/getting money together/building a home - and most importantly having fun and experiencing as much as possible before settling down.

Ideally i would like to have my first child at around 29/30 years of age, and just have my kids in my 30s - exactly what my mother did and it worked well for her. She said her 30s were the best years of her life - she had her last baby at 39 and that was fine. So i will probably have my babies fairly late. It seems alot of women are doing that these days.

[e60m5]

I want to get married after I graduate (2008). Kids would come a few years later.

  Yeah, right... we'll see how that goes. lol

[I Love Xenakis]

for you stevie.... i dunno.

[clef]

The right age to have children is never. There should be a law against it.

I know that would be potentially problematic. But I don't wanna be the one to have a kid. Never ever.

your not smart aren't you, if there was a law against birth then humans would either break the law or the entire human race would be wiped out in 100 years. 

[I Love Xenakis]

honestly, I would love to see China's population control system implemented globally.