Grade 8 Mozart sonata

[xamy]

I am currently learning the first movement of Mozart's sonata in C major K.330

Thought it was far to easy for grade 8 at first (compared to the Beethoven for example), but have discovered that it is incredibly hard to get the right touch. The constant changes from p to f and vice versa also make it quite hard to keep a steady beat (I tend to rush when I play louder). Also, some of them trills are really fast, anyone got some advice on how to practice these.

You may wonder why I am asking this here rather than my teacher. Well she is away for just over a month now, and I am deteremined to show her some improvements when I see her next.

Oh if anyone else is doing grade 8, please say what pieces you have chosen. Apart from the Mozart I am learning the Bach Allemande and the piece by Arensky (a lovely piece!).

[steve jones]

Yeah, the Arensky piece is nice. I had a look at this a few months ago, but I need to develop my pedalling a bit first.

I think the Mozart is a little deceptive. When you compare it to the Beethoven Op90 it seems really easy (and it is compared to that piece!). But its not quite as easy as it appears at first, to me anyway. The trills are tricky as you say, as is the touch. Performing this piece well could be difficult, and I guess this is what qualifies it as Gr8.

Take Arensky as another. This is not technically difficult at all, especially when compared to some of the others in the list (like the Schumann for example).

As for practice methods, Im not the best man to speak to. You probably know far more than me so I wont insult you with some feeble suggestion, lol. But I will follow this closely as I am learning Mvt 3 or k570.

[xamy]

Thanks for the reply.  No need to worry about who is better. Feel free to suggest anything!

[pianorama]

Is this gr.8 RCM or gr. 8 ARBSM?

[minor_sonata]

i'm doing grade 8 too now.... i've just bought the book a few days ago...
could anybody describe each pieces? there're a lot of pieces that i haven't heard, like shostakovich's prelude, cpe bach's sonata, etc.... you guys have the recordings for the pieces? 'coz i couldn't find it near my place... btw, 'bout mozart's sonata, i think all of his sonatas always have the difficulty esp. to get the right touch... i think you have to practice it in slow tempo....

[xamy]

i'm doing grade 8 too now.... i've just bought the book a few days ago...
could anybody describe each pieces? there're a lot of pieces that i haven't heard, like shostakovich's prelude, cpe bach's sonata, etc.... you guys have the recordings for the pieces? 'coz i couldn't find it near my place... btw, 'bout mozart's sonata, i think all of his sonatas always have the difficulty esp. to get the right touch... i think you have to practice it in slow tempo....

Hi there. I'm sorry I don't have the recordings of the pieces so can't comment on all of them. The Bach is quite nice and slow, though I found it very difficult to learn. There are so many notes you need to hold on to while letting go of others. The Scarlatti is completely different, very light in touch, bit like the Mozart in a way. One reason I didn't chose it is because I wanted it a good contrast between my pieces. Scarlatti and Mozart are too similar I think. No idea what the Shostakovich sounds like.

For the B list I can only say that the Beethoven sonata is much more dramatic as might be expected. There is one part which is very hard to play for the left hand, a passage of 16th notes whith stretches of about a tenth. I don't have very big hands so it's hard for me. Don't know the CPE Bach.

List C. The Arensky is very beautiful, and quite slow, though it does have its difficulties. It is essential to find the right balance: first part, right hand is prominent, 2nd part left hand is more important. The Schumann is a marvellous piece. I can play it at slow speed (fits under the hans quite nicely), but it is ment to go really fast. Don't know the other pieces, though I tried sightreading though the liszt, which seems to have some nice bits in it.

Anyway, let us know which pieces you choose and how you get on!

[steve jones]

"No idea what the Shostakovich sounds like."

Weird!

Atonal!

Weird!!!

But cool 

The fugue is not so much technically difficult, but imo very hard to learn. There is no melodic phrasing in the tradition sense so it hard to memorise.


The Schumann is the technically tricky (for me atleast), yet much easier to learn. Nice piece actually, I have a rec of Richter playing it if you want it.

[letters]

i did grade 8 in december i did:
scarlatti: this i found quite difficult. you need a quite a light and very even touch, definitely practice with a metronome getting every note even.
mozart: deceptively difficult! im performing this at a recital soon i still find those really fast trills at the end difficult! again practice with a metronome but i reckon be quite relaxed while playing it, just have a light touch no heavy chords.
lizst dem anken petofis: i liked this the best probably, sort of steady but "majestic" at the beginning, then a quiet smooth section and then the beginning theme but all big crashy octaves! took me a while to figure out those chords but you can really be dramatic with this one.

i thought bach looked nice in list A and i thought the Beethoven looked difficult, some 10th stretches. The bach in list B looked nice too! Schumman looked horrific on first sight so yeah didnt do that one lol

good luck!

[chillout]

I started Grade 8 four months back and feel quite confident now with pursuing the exam.

The pieces I chose are;

     Allemande
     Allegro assai
     Arensky's  Impromptu


I bought the Cd with the book and I must say I like all the section C pieces and will probably master them all after taking the exam.

I do like the Mozart sonata but the 3 page turns put me off.

Daz

[tompilk]

i played this mozart an never got the correct touch.. i would rather have played the beethoven because in this way it is easier... the notes in teh beethoven are not that hard either.... i have sight read it twice....

[steve jones]

I thought the Beethoven Op90 looked VERY difficult. There is one particular passage (around bar 53 I believe) that requires these fast 10th jumps and is next to near impossible for me!

But then again, remove the occassional nasty passage and the rest is not to challenging. Id feel safer with the Mozart or Bach though (or even the Beethoven Op79 which is much easier imo).

[letters]

yeah i took another book into the exam with me to cope with the turns in the mozart, stupid printing! heh yeah i couldnt manage the 10th stretches in the beethoven so i was put off by that one. i did like the look of both the bach pieces and ive been having a go at beethoven op. 79 i really like it wish i did that one now! never mind i got a merit

[xamy]

yeah i took another book into the exam with me to cope with the turns in the mozart, stupid printing! heh yeah i couldnt manage the 10th stretches in the beethoven so i was put off by that one. i did like the look of both the bach pieces and ive been having a go at beethoven op. 79 i really like it wish i did that one now! never mind i got a merit

I'll take merit any time! If it wasn't for oral I would be far more confident. I'm the world's worst singer.

[letters]

heh well i totally messed up some of my oral but the rest was ok, its all the clapping and singing back from memory i cant do! oh well ul be fine

[tompilk]

I thought the Beethoven Op90 looked VERY difficult. There is one particular passage (around bar 53 I believe) that requires these fast 10th jumps and is next to near impossible for me!

But then again, remove the occassional nasty passage and the rest is not to challenging. Id feel safer with the Mozart or Bach though (or even the Beethoven Op79 which is much easier imo).

The jumps are hard.. but thats about it... theyre quick as well, but master them and the rest is a walk-through...
Tom

[xamy]

The jumps are hard.. but thats about it... theyre quick as well, but master them and the rest is a walk-through...
Tom

Yeah you're right. I just had a go at it, once you get the jumps its fine. Those Mozart trills are really causing me a lot of trouble, maybe I should switch pieces! How long did it take you to master those trills and how did you practice them? Or could you just do it?

[steve jones]

Yeah, some jumps I can handly, but at 146bpm (or whatever that piece is) I struggle!

But I shall have another bash at it when I get a chance. I love this movement so I think it will be worth the effort.

[tompilk]

Yeah you're right. I just had a go at it, once you get the jumps its fine. Those Mozart trills are really causing me a lot of trouble, maybe I should switch pieces! How long did it take you to master those trills and how did you practice them? Or could you just do it?

to be honest, my trills got worse teh more i practised them!!! i just practised them really slow and sped it up... the last page i a killer... good luck...
Tom

[xamy]

ARRGGH those trills!!! Makes everything so hard! Also having a lot of trouble with bars 23 and 110, 2nd beat. Looks very easy but really troubling me. Anyone else have problems with that?

[kd]

In bar 23, you probably mean C#-D-E-D-C-B-A-G D#-E-..., I used 2-3-4-3-2-1-2-1 4-5-... (although my score has 2-3-4-3-1-3-2-1 instead). The trills are definitely much worse, I usually have problems with them anyway, but these seem particularly nasty.
No one tried the grade 8 Haydn pieces? I think they're both more exciting than this Mozart movement - it's maybe because I fell in love with Hob. XVI:49 when I heard it some time ago. But I agree that though Mozart might look easy, there are always some tricky places which make the whole piece difficult to master, and there is a lot of work to do on touch...

[BoliverAllmon]

i am doing the bach a minor P&F and the Haydn Eb. My teacher will decide which list C piece to do. I should find out today.

[kd]

It's nice to know that I'm not the only one that likes the Haydn piece, I'm working on it just now (though I'm not doing it for any audition) and I'm enjoying it a lot. Now I've gotten through most technical work - for me the worst thing is actually evenness in thirds, not the faster runs. But there's much more to the piece. It is in no way "inferior" to the Mozart movement. [Now I see that my recording I posted here some time ago was very bad but it was just about a week after I got to know the piece and that day I didn't feel particularly good. No one commented so I wonder how terrible it really was Anyway, it's getting better now].
Good luck.

[BoliverAllmon]

i never noticed you posted it. I will have to go look at it. or you can post another recording of it.

[supertonic]

I am doing K330 for coming Grade 8 exam too, BTW, what is the speed you are working with now? I am working with 104, how fast do I need to achieve?

[kd]

120-126

[supertonic]

Really need to get to 120? But it is "moderato?

[kd]

Yes, it is performed that way. My score gives 126. Maybe the explanation why one has to get to that speed even with "moderato" is that the smallest notes you have are 32ths (not counting ornaments, trills etc.) while in 1st mvts of different Mozart sonatas you usually have 16ths (and tempo about 132-144), except for K 281 where you also have Allegro moderato, 32ths as smallest notes and you're also expected to get 126.

[supertonic]

Thks. I am working towards there now.

For everyone who plays A1 Allemande, please advice this too:
Should I use "non-legato" for the left hand, in eg Bar 5-9, Bar 29 -  28 etc. My teacher asks me to use non-legato for all the non-tied notes (but still holding the tied note). He said this is the way to play Bach. But I listen to the CDs and heard no one plays like that. Is it the right thing to do esp in the exam?

[xamy]

Hmm, interesting idea. I must admit, I play them legato. The only notedsI am detaching at the moment are the quarter notes of the left hand, but only the upper voice. There aren't very many: the A  bar 1, the A in bar 2, the C# in bar 3. Or in the second movement, the C# and E in bar 25 and C#in 2. I think that's pretty much all of them.

However I know that the quavers (or 8th notes) can also be lightly detached in Bach. I did that for the 4th invention in d minor. I don't think there is a strict way of playing Bach, its just a matter of taste and common sense. I wonder if anyone else could ofer their views here.

Thks. I am working towards there now.

For everyone who plays A1 Allemande, please advice this too:
Should I use "non-legato" for the left hand, in eg Bar 5-9, Bar 29 -  28 etc. My teacher asks me to use non-legato for all the non-tied notes (but still holding the tied note). He said this is the way to play Bach. But I listen to the CDs and heard no one plays like that. Is it the right thing to do esp in the exam?

[supertonic]

Dear Xamy,
Thanks for your reply too, at least someone has heard about this approach. Hope to hear from more. I heard from the demonstration on the Radio and heard that "phrasing" is very important for A1 Bach. I am taking exam at last quater of this year.