Why are some people racist?

[mycrabface]

Just a silly question, though it has been puzzling me for awile..

[berrt]

Just a silly question, though it has been puzzling me for awile..

It makes them feel superior without any own merit.

[brewtality]

because asians suck.

[jas]

Because they're taught to be and they just accept it without any thought on their own part. Sad but true.

Jas

[arensky]

I don't know; I have never understood racism. I think it's cool that there are different races of people, it would be awful if we all looked the same, just as if there were only one kind of music.

I guess most people at a certain primal level mistrust or fear that which is unfamiliar or different, whether it's music, food, mode of dress, or physical appearance. There is a certain amount of "sniffing around" or examining of an unfamiliar person, place or thing that takes place before we accept it, or decide that it's not a threat. This is probably rooted in our collective prehistory, cavemen and all that. You would think that we have evolved beyond that stage, but obviously we have not. I think ignorance plays a large role in this sort of prejudicial behavior, I think we collectively fear things we don't understand. And rather than show fear, we bluster, and the fear transforms itself into hate. Now if we all stepped away from that, and knew that we are all the same on the inside, with the same emotions, psycological complexes and physical needs, we will realize that we are not different at all, except in our physical appearances. Which are superficial.

It is a mystery to me that everyone else doesn't get this too... 

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."  __ Martin Luther King


   

[crazy for ivan moravec]

because the "learned" think they are superior. but by thinking that way, one becomes inferior actually. look at the great history of china's civilization. awesome, really. and yet, they remain the silent dragon.

[Siberian Husky]

It is generally underdstood as a child-related, conditioned trait, or characteristic that one picks up from their immideiate sphere of influence. (I.E. a child emulating its mother/father/parental unit)....Unfortunately this is not the case in every scenario, if it were, eradicating such racism and prejudice would be easy as 1-2-3 and we'd only be a few generations away from equality.

I believe most racism is a  mixture of two things. One being a person's capacity to examine new content while holding judgement, and perhaps a bad experience or a bad impression of a certain race/religion/color/sex/etc. We must remember that racism is just a breed of an entirely larger portion of prejudice that houses many forms of discrimination. Racism is just another form of simpler, more innocent confrontations such as Classical Music vs. Rap music, or football teams like San francisco 49ers vs Oakland Raiders. The difference between these examples, is that with racism, any sort of criticism, discrimination, or act of prejudice is taken deeply into heart, because of cultural preservation. Culture, ethnic background, are things very closely to our heart, and when judgement is passed in regards to what we hold dearly to our hearts, it directly effects us emotionally, and mentally. But if someone were to blatantly tell you the football team you support is rubbish and stupid, you'd get over it in a matter of seconds or minutes.

It is about context, this rule of thumb can be applied in other areas as well. For instance, my mother is deeply rooted in her Mexican heritage, she was born there and practices Mexican behaviours and celebrates Mexican holidays, in short, she takes pride in her ethnicity. Then there is me, i too am Mexican, but was born in america. Im only familiar with a few Mexican Holidays, and was never really schooled in my heritage. Although i concretely identify myself as a Mexican (american), if someone were to call me a spic, or wetback,or other racial slur, i wouldnt even think twice about it. If my mother were to be called something of that nature, it would effect her longer and much more personally. Also concider that me and my mother are both equally interpretive and emotionally stable, so to assume that my mother is being over dramatic is not the question.

Also..Race is simply an idea, that began mostly during the very begining of slavery. Before slavery, there were many different european countries of different background and diversity, like the France, England, Spain, etc. Yet if you notice, they were not stratified through "racial" elements, these people were identified by their country and socioeconomic status as collective units/countries. Race was an immediate idea that was manifested through biology, and only biology. The idea of Race was a by product of social opression. African slaves were deemed to be mentally and psychologically inferior, therefore were classified into their own "race." It is documented that anglo-americans "discovered" a disease that all African slaves suffered from. I cannot recall the name of the disease, but in short, it made the African slaves suffer from a form of freedom-hunger. It was expressed that African slaves had an obsession with the idea of freedom, and the anglo americans used this idea, that again, developed from the idea of race, to justify slavery universally.

We as human beings need organization and classification. We naturally want to understand new concepts, or new findings, and quickly classify them as we see fit. You see the color red for the first time, your mind will automatically catagorize it to be close to yellow and orange, and far from black or blue. This is just how our mind works, and i believe that the idea of "race" was mankind's attempt to classify, and unfortunately stratify different diverse groups, to keep order. We do this to better understand our world. We cannot help but classify new findings and interpret new things subjectively. It is near impossible to objectively understand something new to us. This crash course in humann behaviour holds the link to why racism and prejudice form.

Yes it is true that magnitude of prejudice in a person is greatly reduced if these notions are properly introduced as a child. But i'v seen cases in which an individual attributed no signs of racial animosity, and gets in conflict with a specific group of people, it doesnt even have to be race, lets say a football team torments a kid for his entire high school experience. This individual, will most likely not  be able to look at football players in equal lighting. This is not so much his fault, it is his mind creating an automatic defense mechanism that enables him to cope with the past experience. These situations can easily be mentally repairable through therapy, or counseling of some sort. The biggest excuse of prejudice seen around the world is the justification through disposition and even genetic make up.

Person 1;) "Why dont you like black people?"
Person 2.) " Im not racist or anything, its just the way i am"

For one to feel the need to verbally express themselves at a non-racist when asked if he or she is racially accepting is most likely harboring racist, or prejudice thoughts.

In short, everyone here is racist to a degree. If you have ever said (which i know you all have) "wow these people are weird for doing this..or that"...i know this statement is not even directly offensive in nature. But it still harbors one tiny grain of prejudice simply because the statement is not ACCEPTING of whatever group of people are at hand.

There is a huge difference between ACCEPTANCE, and TOLERANCE.

Now here we come to an even BIGGER question..

Because the question of "Why are some people racist" is somewhat basic and really is just another form of "Why do some people hate classical music"


The Question Is:....


If a person is racist, would they be a better person if they kept it to themselves? In other words, is a closet racist just as bad as an outwardly expressive racist? Where do we draw the line on what is acceptable and what is not? Of course we will never create a global 100% equal atmosphere, but is closet racism just as bad as expressive blatant racism?



sorry for the long rant..i have an associates in ethnic studies

[zheer]

Good GOD, SH you didnt have to write an essay , but yeah, well said.
I is not seen a single Mexican in the UK, infact if you came to London they will call you an Indian.

[thalbergmad]

I am a closet racist

[maul]

Because they're taught to be and they just accept it without any thought on their own part.

Yes. Much like religion...

[pianistimo]

i hate people who work out on tv (on those ads for 'body by jake' etc) and they don't need to.  now i see why other women didn't like me when i was fit and went to the gym.  now i'm fat and i fit in everywhere except my pants.  it's really frustrating to get one leg 3/4 of the way in and no more.

adam and eve are the father and mother of us all anyway - so no matter, race, religion, ethnicity, gender - you have to just stand up for your rights.  it even speaks of people trying to get into the kingdom of heaven above others.  even the disciples fought over who was going to sit at the right hand of Christ.  they wanted a pecking order.  then Christ told them - whoever among you is greatest should be your servant  (the least shall be greatest).   

[steve jones]

I guess it depends what on you define as racism. I know what I think racism is, but Im quite sure that other people have a very different idea.

Take this example:

1. Say that a persons lives in a city. He meets only 50 people of a particular ethnicity. All of these people display a certain character trait. Lets say for arguments sake that this trait is highly undesirable and threatening to him and his entire way of life.

Is this person racist is he is cautious of this ethnic group?

[pianistimo]

sometimes it means giving up your comfort zone - and learning to enjoy a different way of doing this.  for example, many gospel choirs learn by rote.  at first i was appalled by the idea - and then soon realized that many of the singers were actually more musical than many people who read music.  for instance - they emote more - they remember musical phrases better (from practicing rote learning) - etc.  so i learned to stuff it in - instead of make some comment like "why don't you learn to read music?"  it wouldn't actually make it sound any better and the jazzed up inspiration that is spontaneous would be restricted.

i think when you take time to really listen to others without talking - and take in their environment, situation, etc. - it makes you appreciate the endless patience that some have to have from day to day.  just recovering from  breaking my leg for a few months has made me more considerate of people who are handicapped.  i don't think genetic perfection (all races) has anything to do with the 'inner character.'  some of the most disfigured people have an abundance of love and kindness that many who are 'normal' would be lucky to have in .001 percent. 

[Siberian Husky]

i hate people who work out on tv (on those ads for 'body by jake' etc) and they don't need to.  now i see why other women didn't like me when i was fit and went to the gym.  now i'm fat and i fit in everywhere except my pants.  it's really frustrating to get one leg 3/4 of the way in and no more.

adam and eve are the father and mother of us all anyway - so no matter, race, religion, ethnicity, gender - you have to just stand up for your rights.  it even speaks of people trying to get into the kingdom of heaven above others.  even the disciples fought over who was going to sit at the right hand of Christ.  they wanted a pecking order.  then Christ told them - whoever among you is greatest should be your servant  (the least shall be greatest).   

You should really try to refrain from reffering to the bible so much. Not because i find it offensive personally, but beacuse it just makes your post counter productive and you lose credibility, again, not because it is offensive or lacking in depth, but because not everyone reads the bible. Everyone is not a Christian, and this forum is made up of all different kinds of faces and religions/beliefs. It is best to not bring up religion in this, not because it doesnt play a role in it, but by introducing religion, you lose that concrete foundation or common ground that enables everyone to converse about the topic equally. Thank You

Carry on with the Racism topic people


Nils..just do yourself a favor and make me a moderator.

[pianistimo]

if you were moderator, mikeyg wouldn't be banned.  stevie would be #1 threadmaster.  and you guys wouldn't be talking about music anymore.  siberian - what you need is a woman to keep you in your place (and a thumping over the head with a bible).

[Siberian Husky]

it was a joke Susan hehe


Just want to keep a fair playing field

[pianistimo]

i think the mexican and french have it right.  they take these afternoon fajita parties and then a siesta or several course lunches and talk things over.  having a drink may make certain people more violent than others - but, i've never seen much damage done after a bottle of champagne.  italians are cool, too.  they can get dramatically angry one moment - and then the next everythings ok. 

[zheer]

I am a closet racist

  Well then dnt go near my sister , or BB.

[prometheus]

People seem to be naturally xenophobic. Do note that xenophobia isn't the same as rascism.

[gilad]

racism is a torrid creature, people should be concerned about themselves instead of worrying about every other race on earth. nazi's , south africas own apartheid. these were "legal" systems based on racial superiority vs inferiority.
i'm sure we've all been discriminated against at some juncture in our lives in some form or another.
i hated being a little jewish boy because i got plenty of stick for it here when i was young and wore a religious head covering. i felt sub human sometimes, even at 6 or 7 years old people would say things like "go back to nazi germany" and the like.
what i went through did little but raise some doubts about myself and my "people". it made me stop wearing a head covering, star of david, etc. it made me angry at peoples ignorance and blind hatred.
what black children were going through here was a more real and tangible nightmare i wish to never live through myself or see repeated on any soul. they were lawfully never to be given any respect or a fair chance at a fair life. .. it must leave a person feeling aweful and dejected, inferior to say the least. they were only allowed enough education to be able to work for a white man. to be able to write basically, do simple math, like 5+5 etc. i dont know, very sad:(.people can be mindless haters with such strong devotion to their cause that it sickens me.
why are some people racist?
usually for no good reason at all. if a "good reason" should even exist.
racism is an extreme form of nationalism maybe?

[prometheus]

Race doesn't have anything to do with nation, so it isn't the same as nationalism. Though nationalism is always bad.

People care for their genes. It is just like christians claiming their religion is superior. So claim white people their genes are superior. Just because their genes are their's. I gues those people are insecure or something. Of course xenophobia gives it a twist too.

Also, you don't need rascism to get Apartheid. Look at Israel.

Personally, I find the whole Jewish idea stupid. Just forget about the whole jew stamp. It doesn't mean anything, both for the positive and for the negative. Apperently some jewish people take pride out of their 'jewishness'. Couldn't you call that positive rascism? Why add any value to genes or heritage. Just care for your family and your community.

Just be glad rascism isn't accurate. It could be true. It could be true that white people are smarter than black people. But this isn't the case. The idea that different ethnicities have different gene pools is true. The idea that different ethnicities are actually different races and that some races are superior to others isn't that far fetched.

Alcohol in beer is the same as alcohol in champagne. You really come up with the most imaginative ideas. Because there is this relaxed image about some cultures champagne alcohol works different from beer alcohol? Same peope, same alcohol. Plus I think you have got the stereotypes wrong.

[gilad]

well, in this country the racist government were nationalists. they saw themselves as a race and a nation.
no offense but your arguments are often black and white.
yes people take pride in their "jewishness", as people take pride in being a christian or an athiest.
if being jewish is stupid i will happily be stupid for the rest of my life, as were my ancesters and theirs.

[prometheus]

I take no pride in being an atheist.

When a famous person is jewish we always get to know they are for some reason. What then? I have this piece of information and what do I do with it? It demands me the either like or dislike the fact this person is jewish. Why should people tell me that someone is jewish, which means they have certain customs and certain celebrations? It demands a person to make judgement.

As long as someone takes pride out of something, someone else who thinks the pride is unfounded will try to level out this pride.

To me the idea of jewishness being passed on through the mother is an idea about genes and bloodlines. To me this is a racist concept, eventhough it isn't dangerous or negative in itself. It is a distinction made based on genes.

[steve jones]

I tend to think of the whole multi cultural thing as a 'yin yang' issue. There will always be some kind of balance, be it a good or a bad one.

If you have one ethnic group exploiting another,  you will have a force opposing it (whether for right or wrong).

If you have one ethnic group poisoning the moral structure of a society, you will have a bunch of snobs getting on their high horses about it.

If you have black gang causing problems, you will have a white power gang fighting against them (and visa versa).

My point is, there will be a balance. The problem (and this makes it even more so) is that our governements try to surpress the truth from being heard by gagging the average man with PC bs. As a result, you have extreme fanatical groups arrising who do far more damage.

This is why racism occurs imo. You take a group of angry, down trodden people and give them a cause to fight for. This was the case with the IRA imo (although that wasnt strictly speaking racism), and its the same with the extremist Muslims. But the world needs to remember that while extremist Muslim groups bombing the innocent public, there will be racist groups attacking and beating their brethren.

Yin Yang. The cosmos does not bow down to PC bullshit political agendas, sorry Blair   

On a personal note, I am a little to real to be drawn into true racist fews. I know to many people from our ethnic communities (in the UK) to have such prejudice views. However, I do have some generalised opinions on black, white, asian groups etc. I think you are stupid not to - you dont walking into the road without looking both ways do you?


And I firmly believe that as long as our culture is being sold down the river, we need someone (not saying who!) to stand up for us. Did you know that it is now politically uncorrect to celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday in the UK? Did you know that our cultural monuments are being brought down so's not to offend any of our ethnic cousins?

With that in mind, does it surprise you that nazi white power groups are on the up and up?

Errr, not really no!

But the best of it is, we all know that it isnt even the leaders of the ethnic groups who complain about such religious and cultural events. Its somewhite upper crust idiot in London, who's twiddling his thumbs one afternoon and decides to 'make a difference'.

These are the exact same people who think its a good idea to teach a class full of black kids about how they have been repressed and exploited by evil white tyrants for centuries (while leaving the true details at the door). Great idea, Im sure that will promote cultural harmony... lol.

No, racism doesnt surprise me on bit. Young children are not born racist - the world in which they grow is 100% responsible.

[gilad]

well prometheus, all i can say is that it's a good thing you're not jewish and are not affected by it.
interesting thread by the way.

[steve jones]

I think Jewish people in todays age dont get a harsh deal. The benefits they get from being part of this group far outweigh the occassional antisemetic comment.

Maybe I am competely wrong there, and if so I will hold up my hands and beg forgiveness!

But it seems to me that the more prosperous ethnic groups recieve immense benefits. Take the Greek Cypriot community in the UK. Many of these people came England with family money and bought into businesses. Now they form syndicates and use their power to construct inpenetrable barriers around entire industries.

The Indians do a similar thing, as do the Jews.

Unfortunately, the white christian people rarely do this. We dont lend money off each other, we dont have such a family orientated culture (infact, dont know any of my extended family). And as a result, we are forced out of industries.

Another explanation for racism in the UK.

[gilad]

true steve, being jewish today isnt bad at all. with mazel(luck) i hope things stay that way.

[steve jones]

Hey, I cant say as I am not Jewish. Im talking purely from an outsider looking in.

[thalbergmad]

  Well then dnt go near my sister , or BB.

I am not sure if i am really a racist, as i just want to see much tighter controls on immigration.

The town in which i live has been turned into a cauldron of mistrust and tension over the last couple of years.

[Siberian Husky]

the notion of ethnic equality is one of the largest paradoxes ever

we need to celebrate diversity...but diversity doesnt allow for equality for you can not gauge differences on a level rule of measurement...and we cant all assimilate because eradicating cultural preservation is impossible...so finding a medium to this teeter totter sure is hard

[ted]

Perhaps racism is just one manfestation of a group of people projecting their collective shadow (shadow in the Jungian sense of the word) onto another group. At the individual level we all tend to project our shadow onto something, it's a very deep property of the psyche. We might start by projecting it, in well-intentioned manner, onto properties we consider negative, and then without realising it we start projecting it onto one or two people who promote those properties. Then we move to associating our shadow with an extended group of people with a distinguishing characteristic, who may or may not actually possess the properties we consider negative. Then finally, a large group of like minded people project a collective shadow onto another large group with a characteristic entirely unrelated to the original negativity.

Everything starts deep in the mind of the individual. I cannot control what society does but I can control what I think about it and how I react to it. I cannot eliminate my dark side but I can choose where to direct it.

Husky:

Could not reasoning and alleviation of suffering between them constitute a frame of reference sufficiently solid to transcend all cultural differences ? Pain is universally negative after all, and a person in one culture solves a cubic equation in exactly the same way as a member of another culture. What is it which makes us ignore the really important things we all have in common, and collectively magnify a whole host of utterly trivial differences ?  I have never really understood this.

[mycrabface]

look at the great history of china's civilization. awesome, really.

China? lol.. A long time ago they thought they were the only people in the world and that their country was situated in the middle of earth, hence the name zong guo, which means middle country.. I'm not being racist or anything(I myself am chinese), but i just thought that was an interesting fact.

[crazy for ivan moravec]

China? lol.. A long time ago they thought they were the only people in the world and that their country was situated in the middle of earth, hence the name zong guo, which means middle country.. I'm not being racist or anything(I myself am chinese), but i just thought that was an interesting fact.

well, with a very big land, the tendency is to think that way.

[thalbergmad]

This is really interesting and i would love to voice my views, but i have got a Klan meeting tonight so i gotta go.

[steve jones]

Ahhh, you're part of the Tuesday group?

I go Mondays and Wednesdays. 




Errr, think I better shut up now... 

[thalbergmad]

Ahhh, you're part of the Tuesday group?

I go Mondays and Wednesdays. 




Errr, think I better shut up now... 

Tuesday is only group therapy and flower arranging, so you aint missed much.

[danyal]

I didnt read the entire thread so forgive me if I cover something that already has been. And I apologise in advance if I offend anyone with my forwardness.

Its hard for me.

Today, while driving out of the eye doc's building I witnessed a black, very drunk, and very angry man beating up two white girls with a belt.

What to think? Maybe the girls were taunting him or something and asked for it... maybe not... I will never know. All I know is that they were screaming and swearing and were pretty helpless. But, then again, they were walking down one of the most dangerous streets of the city in mini skirts. Stupid. But... then I ask myself... WHY is the area dodgy? Quite frankly I rarely see a white face on those streets. The same goes for any "dangerous" area in this country. I wanted to help them, instictively, I would've offered the girls to get into the car had it not been a 5 lane one-way with morning traffic.

I dont know. The word "racist" implies I hate all blacks. I dont. There are a LOT that I love and respect. I hate the bastards who ensure that I must look over my shoulder at every turn and carry pepper spray. WHY should I? Fortunately, my area is relatively safe. But one never knows. This place, this country, this planet, its where we live our lives! Why should it be in fear? I, as a pianist, have high dreams and priorities and goals... why should the potential stand for a drunk hobo to take that all away in a moment's flash because he sees me as his night's opportunity?? (just randomly using myself as an example) Or because he was angry with life and decided to take it out on someone with his knife?

Dont get me wrong, please, I hate anyone who commits such mostrosities, not just blacks. Its just in my country, the latter is rare. I suppose thats why I have the built in "instinct" to mistrust a black person over a white. But I am certainly NOT a racist. I do not generalise.

Gilad, I need your help in explaining this... I dont know if I am getting my point across properly... and you live in JHB...

Anyway, needed to get that out of my system. Still furious though.

[cziffra]

if you were moderator, mikeyg wouldn't be banned.  stevie would be #1 threadmaster.  and you guys wouldn't be talking about music anymore.  siberian - what you need is a woman to keep you in your place (and a thumping over the head with a bible).

BITE ME

[contrapunctus]

Since I live in the southern part of the USA, there is quite a lot of racist talk, especially against Blacks. But, the talk is not against Blacks themselves, it is against their culture. (note: not all have that horrible culture). There is no racism against the actual people themselves. I don't know how it is in other parts of the world.

[quasimodo]

I think there are two levels of racisms.

- Popular racism, driven by the need to feel "superior" (see post #2 by berrt),

- Influential racism, driven by interest: by marginalizing an ethnic group of persons, another ethnic group monopolize the wealth in a given territory.

Influential racists inculcate the idea of superiority to the members of their group in order to develop Popular racism and allow them to structure the society on racial bases (Appartheid for example).

Nowadays, there is a tendancy to make a distinction between those who are racists because they believe they are genetically superior to others and those who think they are culturally superior. I think this distinction is not really important. Both result from cognitive dissonance and end up to exclusion.

[gilad]

Danyal, i know in a big way what you mean!
i was never "racist" until i was hijacked in my driveway, my borther was mugged by 5 guys, and my best friend stabbed in the back, all in the same week. my mother has also been held up at gunpoint, my father has to, i've had a stray bullet(from a shoot out outside my house) nearly kill a guest in my house once, missed his head by inches...came through the window. the list is longer, but that is enough.
after that i became suspicious everytime i saw a car on my block with 4 black guys in it, and i have grown eyes in the back of my head when i'm walking in the street, which is rare because i know it isnt safe.
we have unfortunately been forced to make these differentiations based on our survival instincts. as you said they are instincts and mathematically and logically are perfectly correct. that is because 99.9%(guessing) of these violent  crimes are being carried out by people of the black skinned variety.
hearing of people you know dying here because they were shot, suffocated with a pillow while they slept by house thieves etc. is all to common place here. 
 in fact an unborn baby was shot twice at point blank range the other day in her mothers womb. the baby died, the mother lived:(. South africas youngest gunshot wound fatality i believe. poor thing hadnt even been born.
you also know that the government is being run by black people and that they are doing near nothing to prevent and thwart this violent crime, as well as hiv/aids, and many other problems we have here. they have a genral policy of apathy, but it's matters in which life and death are involved that you expect service delivery!!
it's a doubled edged sword towards being a racist.

this our minister of health addressing the country about it's AIDS "problem". she also accidently made hard drugs such as heroin, cocain, morphine etc legal to possess and use for a period of three weeks once.

fact of the matter is that we are hard hit by crime here, violent crime, murderous orgies of crime that are almost unspeakable. a conservative estimate is that 300 000 people have been murdered here in the past 10 years.

who is commiting the crime? black people mostly. yes they're poor and desperate. but some of these criminals are ruthless killers, you could picture them being dicatators in the postition of men like charles taylor, former leader of liberia.
 it's also not uncommon to get vigalante groups who will kill a young 16 year old boy because he stole a cellular phone or something ridiculous, this happens quite frequently in black areas. at the same time because of demographics here, the majority of those being murdered are black people. that i asume, i know they have always had violent crime in their suburbs, gang crime etc.
so the only common denominator regarding the violence here is that it is directed at both whites and blacks alike, maybe their is some racial intention when it is done against whites in some cases.
but yes, it does make you turn hard against black people, not black people in general, but in certain instances where your safety is concerned, it does breed distrust.
as did apartheid breed distrust of whites by blacks. the white politicians here are the brunt of jokes by black people. they dispise them. of course i speak in general.

i judge people based on there actions and as indivisuals, but in some cases you havent got the time to find out and you have to assume A based on B or what not.

a black person that might be getting followed in the street by another black person would make the same judgement i'm sure. you dont expect a whitey to attack you, it's very uncommon.

what has happened in zimbabwe doesnt make matters any better.
conflict breeds racism and racism breeds coonflict. what came first the chicken or the egg? i dont know. it's not a subject i devote much thought to(you woulnt think so judging by the size of my post), if i did i'd never stop thinking about it and would probably land up going around in circles.

[contrapunctus]

Danyal, i know in a big way what you mean!
i was never "racist" until i was hijacked in my driveway, my borther was mugged by 5 guys, and my best friend stabbed in the back, all in the same week. my mother has also been held up at gunpoint, my father has to, i've had a stray bullet(from a shoot out outside my house) nearly kill a guest in my house once, missed his head by inches...came through the window. the list is longer, but that is enough.
after that i became suspicious everytime i saw a car on my block with 4 black guys in it, and i have grown eyes in the back of my head when i'm walking in the street, which is rare because i know it isnt safe.
we have unfortunately been forced to make these differentiations based on our survival instincts. as you said they are instincts and mathematically and logically are perfectly correct. that is because 99.9%(guessing) of these violent  crimes are being carried out by people of the black skinned variety.
hearing of people you know dying here because they were shot, suffocated with a pillow while they slept by house thieves etc. is all to common place here. 
 in fact an unborn baby was shot twice at point blank range the other day in her mothers womb. the baby died, the mother lived:(. South africas youngest gunshot wound fatality i believe. poor thing hadnt even been born.
you also know that the government is being run by black people and that they are doing near nothing to prevent and thwart this violent crime, as well as hiv/aids, and many other problems we have here. they have a genral policy of apathy, but it's matters in which life and death are involved that you expect service delivery!!
it's a doubled edged sword towards being a racist.

this our minister of health addressing the country about it's AIDS "problem". she also accidently made hard drugs such as heroin, cocain, morphine etc legal to possess and use for a period of three weeks once.

fact of the matter is that we are hard hit by crime here, violent crime, murderous orgies of crime that are almost unspeakable. a conservative estimate is that 300 000 people have been murdered here in the past 10 years.

who is commiting the crime? black people mostly. yes they're poor and desperate. but some of these criminals are ruthless killers, you could picture them being dicatators in the postition of men like charles taylor, former leader of liberia.
 it's also not uncommon to get vigalante groups who will kill a young 16 year old boy because he stole a cellular phone or something ridiculous, this happens quite frequently in black areas. at the same time because of demographics here, the majority of those being murdered are black people. that i asume, i know they have always had violent crime in their suburbs, gang crime etc.
so the only common denominator regarding the violence here is that it is directed at both whites and blacks alike, maybe their is some racial intention when it is done against whites in some cases.
but yes, it does make you turn hard against black people, not black people in general, but in certain instances where your safety is concerned, it does breed distrust.
as did apartheid breed distrust of whites by blacks. the white politicians here are the brunt of jokes by black people. they dispise them. of course i speak in general.

i judge people based on there actions and as indivisuals, but in some cases you havent got the time to find out and you have to assume A based on B or what not.

a black person that might be getting followed in the street by another black person would make the same judgement i'm sure. you dont expect a whitey to attack you, it's very uncommon.

what has happened in zimbabwe doesnt make matters any better.
conflict breeds racism and racism breeds coonflict. what came first the chicken or the egg? i dont know. it's not a subject i devote much thought to(you woulnt think so judging by the size of my post), if i did i'd never stop thinking about it and would probably land up going around in circles.

Racist oppression led to this.

[gilad]

thats true, but something can still be done about it. it's no excuse to let the situation continue spiraling. from an economic and international standpoint it doesnt put us in a good postion either. you can blame racism and sure why not, it did deprive the majority here of the most basic amenities. but it's a fraction of black people that are committing these crimes, the vast majority know it's wrong and are angry at the government for not cracking down on it.
they aren't used to services due to their lives under the previous government and now dont demand them or raleigh for them. it's not as simple as identifying one variable and accepting the situation is here to stay because of that.

[prometheus]

Gilad, you are living in south africa, right? That's one of the most violent countries in the world, argubly suprisingly.

I woudn't call what you describe racism but a prejudgement caused by 'extreme' conditions. Since your realise most black people are 'normal'.

[rob47]

Since I live in the southern part of the USA, there is quite a lot of racist talk, especially against Blacks. But, the talk is not against Blacks themselves, it is against their culture. (note: not all have that horrible culture). There is no racism against the actual people themselves. I don't know how it is in other parts of the world.

Don't you ever get tired of being a dumbass?

[cfortunato]

For early human beings, clannishness and tribalism were important to the survivial of the tribe.  So suspicion of people who were regarded as "other" became very deeply ingrained, and extremely hard to launder out of the human psyche.

That what I think.  Oscar Hammerstein had a different take on it:

You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!

(Rogers and Hammerstein, You've Got To Be Carefully Taught, South Pacific)

I sort of agree with him, too.

[danyal]

I woudn't call what you describe racism but a prejudgement caused by 'extreme' conditions. Since your realise most black people are 'normal'.

thank you prometheus you have just put everything, all this country's (SA) arguments, preconcieved ideas, and personal, before unexplainable and most definitely unmentionable opinions into perspective...

I have never before heard it so perfectly put. Thanks.

[prometheus]

Well, I am not familiar with the discussions and arguments that are made in SA. It didn't seem profound. I even considered your post sarcastic for a while, just because I have the inclination to be rather blunt through the internet medium.

There was just a topic on dreams and I now remember having a dream about terrorists. Guess what, those terrorists were stereotypical arabic muslims. Such a thing does not make one a racist, at least I hope it doesn't. And here the danger of an actuall terrorist attack isn't that big, though the media attention is (which 'inspired' the dream). So it is very human to fall into these patterns, or to have prejudgements in general. You must just be sure to be aware of your prejudgement and be ready to adjust it and put it into perspective.

But this isn't innocent either. The media did help stigmatise a group of people, which may actually be justified because of the actual threat.
And in the case of Gilad his prejudgement may make sure he is really careful around 'suspicious people' and/or prevent him from having a friendship certain people.

And on prejudgement in general; some are innocent and some are generally accurate.

[gilad]

thank you prometheus you have just put everything, all this country's (SA) arguments, preconcieved ideas, and personal, before unexplainable and most definitely unmentionable opinions into perspective...

I have never before heard it so perfectly put. Thanks.

i couldn't agree more.

[mycrabface]

Well, the fact that people are using the terms 'black' and 'white' is really something to think about...

An ideal world would be one where people will judge others by characters and attitudes, and not by skin colour. To be equal 'regardless of race, language or religion' (FYI part of Singapore's pledge), and to be a multi-racial, non-communal world. (and of course have a money-making machine in my room so i'll be sleeping on cash, cash, cash!!)