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Topic: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?  (Read 3480 times)

Offline pianoperfmajor

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Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
on: February 18, 2006, 11:57:46 AM
Lately I've been practicing like double what I normally do and now, even away from the piano, my hands really hurt...then when I start practicing again it's really quite painful.

What about you guys?  Any recommendations?

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #1 on: February 18, 2006, 12:09:19 PM
If your hands are painful, it is time to rest.

They obviously do not like the amount of practice you are doing.

My hands are sometimes tired, but if i feel pain, i stop.

I went to see a herbalist sometime ago and he gave me an ointment to put on my hands. It smells like the bottom of a budgie cage, but it seems to work.

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Offline nicco

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #2 on: February 18, 2006, 12:38:29 PM
If you feel pain then STOP!

Take a few days rest, give the hand some massage and as mentioned ointment can help. Pain in the wrist and fingers from the muscles is the worst thing for a pianist. I heard some people used the "No pain no gain" slogan, but after consulting with a lot of people and partially experiencing it myself i would strongly advise to take a break from practicing until your hand is 100% healed.

Good Luck!
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Offline zheer

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #3 on: February 18, 2006, 12:59:31 PM
Pain is natures way of saying stop.
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Offline edmundas

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #4 on: February 18, 2006, 01:40:47 PM
Like others told, you shoud rest.

 But when you will start again to practise, dont practise first day so much, take just one hour, have long braek, like 3 hours and than again one more hour, second day practise half hour more, 3rd day half more and.... and ofcourse practise only slowly, just after some time start to practise normal, and use exersize befor you start practise peases.
If you will start to fell, that hands hurt again, just little bit, stop and relax.

Offline steve jones

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #5 on: February 18, 2006, 01:41:35 PM
I never get this to be honest. I do sometimes find that if I over practice I become slightly fatigued and my tehnique becomes tense. At this point I usually call it a day.

Offline paris

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #6 on: February 18, 2006, 03:02:07 PM
if you don't feel any concrete pain (which likely means injury), normal fatigue after long practising isn't really alarming. however, long practising (i mean like 8-10 hours or even more) can be waste of time if not spent in efficient work. (umm no intention to start another discussion)  i'm more concerned about mental fatigue after, say 9 hours in front of piano then physical fatigue.
another thing, with which i have big problems are blisters. i have very sensitive skin and i often practise with plasters on my fingers. recently found myself in such an unpleasant situation while i had important stuff, got blisters from rather hard steinway, and i couldn't afford few days rest, because of concert at the end of the whole thing.
and everytime i have some important event which requires more practising, i end up with blisters (and no, i don't practise 10 hours a day)..which sucks, but learned to use plasters while practising so its okay
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Offline gruffalo

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #7 on: February 18, 2006, 04:33:11 PM
the best advice i can give you is, never launch yourself into double the amount of practice straight away. your body wont be used to it.

if its raising from half an hour to an hour, then you may be having problems which you should consult a teacher or physiotherapist about.

i wouldnt recommend going doubling the amount of practice time straight away (if the existing amount was an hour or more). it should be a gradual process. some can do it quicker, some cant. better to experiment in the early stages. try raising it by 20 minutes every few days. also makesure you keep a regular amount of breaks ie. 15-20 minute breaks every hour (and dont watch tele, go for a walk or sit have some tea).

piano practice is not different from sports practice, except different muscles and types of fitness are effected. say you dont run very often, and you decide that you will start running 12 miles a day, 6 days a week. you could probably last a week (depending on your current fitness and endurance) but its not likely you will last longer, and you will cause yourself injury.

although its less noticeable, you are likely to strain yourself by doing someting like that with the piano.

hope it helps.

Gruff

Offline steve jones

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #8 on: February 18, 2006, 05:11:33 PM

pianoperfmajor,

How much practice are we talking about here?

I dont think most people could manage more than 4 - 5 hours of PROPER practice a day. Iv heard it said that anymore than this can be a false economy.

Offline zheer

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #9 on: February 18, 2006, 05:56:47 PM

another thing, with which i have big problems are blisters. i have very sensitive skin and i often practise with plasters on my fingers.  (and no, i don't practise 10 hours a day)..which sucks, but learned to use plasters while practising so its okay

  Hmmmmm,  Read CC's book on the subconcious brain, you will find that not practicing for long hours is infact an advantage. What CC,s says in the suconcious mind seems true, my instict says its true, please read it and tell us what you think.
    The thing about blisters, well normally after recovering from blisters the skin gets stronger,
so possiblly practicing with plasters my infact stop the naturall process of skin development
( am probably wrong )

     Don't try this, but you know when you slightly burn your finger tips the skin gets stronger,and do you know that some people can walk on fire, and this develops their mind and body. What am saying is that there may be a way round this problem. :)
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Offline paris

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #10 on: February 18, 2006, 06:16:30 PM
  Hmmmmm,  Read CC's book on the subconcious brain, you will find that not practicing for long hours is infact an advantage. What CC,s says in the suconcious mind seems true, my instict says its true, please read it and tell us what you think.

i've read through some parts of his book a months ago and with all respect, i don't agree with his methods. i don't want to get into deeper discussions, everyone should know how many hours a day he/she needs to cover whole repertoire, depending on what one wants to achieve (proffesional career, just for fun, etc.)
and forgive me, but how can you know just by your instinct? in my opinion, many methods beloved on this forum sound great when written, but actually don't work in reality

The thing about blisters, well normally after recovering from blisters the skin gets stronger,
so possiblly practicing with plasters my infact stop the naturall process of skin development
( am probably wrong )

 Don't try this, but you know when you slightly burn your finger tips the skin gets stronger,and do you know that some people can walk on fire, and this develops their mind and body. What am saying is that there may be a way round this problem. :)

skin recovers yes, but doesn't get any stronger. and walking on fire?!?! i'm not yogi or whatever , i have real blisters, they won't go away if i don't think about them haha
really, i've got used to them, even brendel on his video where he plays beethoven uses plasters on all his 10 fingers
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Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #11 on: February 18, 2006, 06:30:48 PM
i've read through some parts of his book a months ago and with all respect, i don't agree with his methods. i don't want to get into deeper discussions, everyone should know how many hours a day he/she needs to cover whole repertoire, depending on what one wants to achieve (proffesional career, just for fun, etc.)
and forgive me, but how can you know just by your instinct? in my opinion, many methods beloved on this forum sound great when written, but actually don't work in reality


I wouldn't mind hearing these other discussions. if you don't mind please elaborate.

Offline paris

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #12 on: February 18, 2006, 06:37:33 PM
''How many hours should I practise'' , ''I practise 20minutes a day and i'm new Mozart'', ''I practise 12 hours and i don't play liszt h mol sonata''... there were (too) many topics about it  :-X

use the search button or start your own discussion if you wanna elaborating  ;)
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Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #13 on: February 18, 2006, 06:50:03 PM
started it. check it out under miscellaneous

Offline dinosaurtales

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #14 on: February 18, 2006, 07:20:38 PM
Yes my hands get sore - mostly tired, but sometimes actually hurt - that means I am probably doing something wrong so I stop and rethink.  I will have fatigued hands if I really get going on a practice session after 3 or 4 hours - I don't know if that's okay or not.
So much music, so little time........

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #15 on: February 18, 2006, 07:50:24 PM
Lately I've been practicing like double what I normally do and now, even away from the piano, my hands really hurt...then when I start practicing again it's really quite painful.

What about you guys?  Any recommendations?

The most likely culprit to most pain is poor technique.  Solve the technical problem and the pain should go away.  Practicing more does no good and only further ingrains poor/inefficient technique.  This could lead to serious problems that can not be solved.

Offline Bob

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #16 on: February 18, 2006, 07:53:22 PM
I agree with the idea of conditioning.  If you push your limits, you will wear out after awile, but then you heal too.  

I haven't heard of blisters from piano playing before.  Can you tell us more about that?  And what are plasters?
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline zheer

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #17 on: February 18, 2006, 08:19:28 PM

and forgive me, but how can you know just by your instinct? in my opinion, many methods beloved on this forum sound great when written, but actually don't work in reality

, even brendel on his video where he plays beethoven uses plasters on all his 10 fingers

   yes, one can not learn haw to swim by reading a book on swiming, however when one does learn haw to swim , it is possible to learn new and intresting facts through reading books on swimming ( only in good books ).

    BTW Brendle is a 75 year old man, am sure when he was yonger he had no trouble with his fingers, have you seen him play when he was young, i have his hands where perfect.

   Its really non of my business, and i wish i did not make any comments :-X
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Offline Bob

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #18 on: February 19, 2006, 01:08:32 AM
What are plasters?
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline montiverdirocks

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #19 on: February 19, 2006, 02:25:09 AM
Quit playing Czerny and work on something that helps piano technique. If you overuse the finger, then it will hurt and eventually be injured. If you focus on using arm actions more often and usually with a fixed wrist to prevent ct, you will notice that the fingers aren't as important as you might have thought. These people who are telling you not to play when in pain are correct. I was once injured myself because i tried to play through pain- not fun at all.

Offline pianoperfmajor

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #20 on: February 19, 2006, 04:51:09 AM
The most likely culprit to most pain is poor technique.  Solve the technical problem and the pain should go away.  Practicing more does no good and only further ingrains poor/inefficient technique.  This could lead to serious problems that can not be solved.

Well, I think my pain is more due to the fact that I had been really slacking with my practicing, and all of a sudden I've started doing like 4 or 5 hours a day. By the end of the 3rd or 4th hour my hands are usually very swollen and in actual pain--not just 'fatigue' as some have said.  Then the next day when I start my practice the pain really hasn't gone away and it is extremely painful to keep practicing.

Offline paris

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #21 on: February 19, 2006, 11:13:56 AM
What are plasters?


its a thing you put on wounded place, its not bandage, online dictionary gives also terms such as plaster, patch, strapping, hansaplast
when i said blister, i meant callus, maybe thats more accurate word

oh joy, now i see that i suck at english  ;D
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Offline bearzinthehood

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #22 on: February 19, 2006, 01:44:51 PM
i've read through some parts of his book a months ago and with all respect, i don't agree with his methods. i don't want to get into deeper discussions, everyone should know how many hours a day he/she needs to cover whole repertoire, depending on what one wants to achieve (proffesional career, just for fun, etc.)
and forgive me, but how can you know just by your instinct? in my opinion, many methods beloved on this forum sound great when written, but actually don't work in reality

Thank you.  I agree with this 100%.

BTW, IMO calluses aren't necessarily a bad thing.  Anyone who's played a stringed instrument has probably experienced this to some degree (most notably the guitar.)  Eventually your skin becomes impervious to the stresses you are putting on it and the pain goes away.

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #23 on: February 19, 2006, 03:23:56 PM
Thank you.  I agree with this 100%.

BTW, IMO calluses aren't necessarily a bad thing.  Anyone who's played a stringed instrument has probably experienced this to some degree (most notably the guitar.)  Eventually your skin becomes impervious to the stresses you are putting on it and the pain goes away.

That is true.

Playing bluegrass banjo sure tears into the fingers.
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Offline Bob

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #24 on: February 19, 2006, 08:17:14 PM
My advice...

If you think it's bad, check that you have good form in playing.  Don't stop playing entirely -- That will allow things to heal up, but you can get to a higher level if you back off -- Good form, relax and "ease" your playing, but keep playing a little until your body starts telling you its too much. 

That's what I would do.

And ultimately, work back to that "edge" again.  Build yourself up to it.  Strength and endurance.

If it were me and I kept going in that direction.... It would keep hurting.  It would hurt more.  Eventually, I would lose some awareness and my playing ability would start to decline.

Although... there may be something to be said for pushing and hurting.  If if it's very negative, maybe the body is shocked and adjusts in the long run.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline emmdoubleew

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #25 on: February 22, 2006, 05:39:38 AM
If you ever feel pain you are playing wrong and need to fix your technique.

My piano teacher lent me this video : Freeing the Caged Bird: The Path to Effortless Piano Technique

It' sa little cheezy sometimes, but it helps a bunch. You should never hurt while practicing, not even after 8 straight ours.

Offline tompilk

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #26 on: February 22, 2006, 08:31:29 PM
i normally do about 30mins a day and have lately been doing loner sections of about 1hour, 1.5 hours.. and my hands ache quite a bit... lol... thats probably cos i like to play random big crashy chords with no relevance to the piece i am playing, and i play constantly during practice... ill play one thing and at the end i will do some octaves or some huge chords in random places until it sounds like a nice place to change key into the next piece... quite fun actually...
Tom
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Offline nick

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #27 on: February 26, 2006, 11:43:21 PM
Hand pain, swollen hands, to me means wrong technique. I used to play with weight, the fingers supported the weight of my hand and arm, and had problems with pain often. You can with time overcome wrong technique and get stonger, but it won't help your piano playing. I recommend using just fingers to strike the note, with only enough pressure to keep the key down, and gradually increasing the speed over time to reach your performance speed. Boy did it take me a long time to figure this one out! Hope this helps.

Nick

Offline nanabush

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #28 on: February 27, 2006, 02:54:57 AM
What makes my hands tired are awkward wrist motions...my fingers do not get tired, but my wrists do after practicing constantly measures that are very awkward....
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Offline tompilk

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #29 on: February 27, 2006, 09:45:58 AM
la campanella makes me cry with pain... and thats just the first 16bars!
Working on: Schubert - Piano Sonata D.664, Ravel - Sonatine, Ginastera - Danzas Argentinas

Offline paris

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #30 on: February 27, 2006, 12:42:38 PM
la campanella makes me cry with pain... and thats just the first 16bars!

thats because you're using wrong technique..with right technique that first part-jumps becomes walk in the park   :)
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Offline tompilk

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #31 on: February 27, 2006, 03:40:48 PM
I use my wrist for the jumps, locking my fingers in place an springing my wrist around. I guess this is wrong... because my fingers ache because ive been holding them stiff...
Tom
Working on: Schubert - Piano Sonata D.664, Ravel - Sonatine, Ginastera - Danzas Argentinas

Offline paris

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #32 on: February 28, 2006, 07:00:51 PM
tom, its hard to explain it without showing it on piano..i'll try to anyway.   don't hit note by note (even if you had huge hands, it'd be hard to play it in that way). imagine as if you weren't playing jumps. try at really slow tempo to play it in a way that your hand is floating over the keyboard. what i want to say, no matter how slow you go, don't stop the motion, you have to rotate hand all the time, without stopping. (imagine playing tennis, that describes the motion) you're going to minimize rotation when you reach some speed.   i should send you video of that first part to see which technique i use, because its really hard to put it into words
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Offline gruffalo

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #33 on: February 28, 2006, 07:56:31 PM
in tennis, if the ball you want to play is a slow one, then you need more wrist rotation and arm preparation and motion because slower balls need more top spin to. naturall with a slow ball you tend to think you can just wack it like a pro. however what people dont realise is that when you're a pro, 95% of the balls are coming at you over 100mph.

hence the rotary technique still needs to be applied whilst playing la campanella at slower tempo.

Offline gruffalo

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Re: Do Your Hands Get Sore From Practicing?
Reply #34 on: March 02, 2006, 08:47:27 AM
ok, weirdly got carried away with tennis there. btw, meant to sa 100kmph. mainly serves come over that speed.
 

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