Cancelling subscription

[ada]

This is a potentially wonderful site but I'm not comfortable with the religious right agenda that is emerging in many of the non-piano threads. I don't want any association with this ideology and I certainly don't want my money going anywhere that provides a forum for CCC propaganda.

Perhaps this goes to the question of how PF can be improved for future members. After all, there are appropriate sites for evangelicism elsewhere on the web and I didn't join PF to have to listen to it.

Nils, please let me know how I can cancel my subscription.

[stevie]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHA

dont cancel your subscription! god is your saviour!!

wooooooooooooooooooooot

[nilsjohan]

Read about how to cancel your Gold membership here: https://www.pianostreet.com/faq.php#cancel

This website is certainly not meant to be a "forum for CCC propaganda". If you come across any posts or topics which you find disturbing, offensive or in any other way not complying with the forum rules, please click the "Report to moderator" link and we will consider removing them.

[gonzalo]

Read about how to cancel your Gold membership here: https://www.pianostreet.com/faq.php#cancel

This website is certainly not meant to be a "forum for CCC propaganda". If you come across any posts or topics which you find disturbing, offensive or in any other way not complying with the forum rules, please click the "Report to moderator" link and we will consider removing them.

Sorry, but what's " CCC propaganda"?

[rob47]

Sorry, but what's " CCC propaganda"?

stuff pianistimo says.

[ada]

This website is certainly not meant to be a "forum for CCC propaganda". If you come across any posts or topics which you find disturbing, offensive or in any other way not complying with the forum rules, please click the "Report to moderator" link and we will consider removing them.

Nils, thanks for the response.

 Personally I do find a lot of the posts banging on about creationism and rantings about passages from the bible offensive on this forum but I appreciate that there are issues with saying "you are not allowed to talk about creationism or quote the bible ad nauseum on this site''. (I wish you could, but this is the internet after all).

It's just sad that creationism and the looney religious right is spreading its tentacles out of the US and is so agressively  pervasive that it's even being discussed on a forum like this. It has reached Australia thanks to our friends in America and this is why it is close to my heart.

So it's with regret that I'm cancelling my subscription. I don't want to deny PF members the freedom to discuss this rubbish but I'm going to exercise my freedom by not having to read it.

onwards
ada

[cziffra]

Nils, thanks for the response.

 Personally I do find a lot of the posts banging on about creationism and rantings about passages from the bible offensive on this forum but I appreciate that there are issues with saying "you are not allowed to talk about creationism or quote the bible ad nauseum on this site''. (I wish you could, but this is the internet after all).

It's just sad that creationism and the looney religious right is spreading its tentacles out of the US and is so agressively  pervasive that it's even being discussed on a forum like this. It has reached Australia thanks to our friends in America and this is why it is close to my heart.

So it's with regret that I'm cancelling my subscription. I don't want to deny PF members the freedom to discuss this rubbish but I'm going to exercise my freedom by not having to read it.

onwards
ada

*salutes*

[ada]

Sorry, but what's " CCC propaganda"?

Campus Crusade for Christ is a New Right christian organisation that espouses creationism and is actively trying to push this view in universities and schools. CCC is the group responsible for breathing new life into the creationist debate.

It also plays a role in shaping the political right and sees America as a nation ordained by god to take a leading role in world affairs.

At the moment CCC is being positioned as a network of front and sector organisations, "Student Life" is the front group at universities.

[leahcim]

I certainly don't want my money going anywhere that provides a forum for CCC propaganda.

Hahaha. "Dear readers, stop answering back"

Tell me more about this journalistic integrity you were quoting and how it relates to what you tried to do with this thread  You've never seemed shy to post your own political and religious opinion [in this thread fairly obviously so] and I think any honest person would note that there are wide variety of opinions on religious and political topics, where is the agenda or pro-CCC activity?

Nils, I'll pay £500 if you just delete all the pro-Hanon posts and ban people who like cabbage...perhaps you could have an auction of permitted views?

[ada]

Sorry, but what do my comments have to do with journalistic integrity? I'm posting on an internet forum as a private individual, not publishing as a journalist.

I've expressly said people have a right to debate this crap, as they do anything, but I am not going to fund it or engage with it.

And imod I have once participated in a debate about creationism on this forum because I was astonished and dismayed to discover that one member held these views.

I have since discovered she isn't alone.

I'm concerned about the CCC because not everyone who spouts the creationist  line is aware of where it's coming from or what's behind it or quite how sinister it is.

I'm all for open debate because that's the only way these sorts of views can be brought out into the open and revealed for the rubbish they are.

[leahcim]

Sorry, but what do my comments have to do with journalistic integrity? I'm posting on an internet forum as a private individual, not publishing as a journalist.

Perhaps you can turn it on and off like a tap? I didn't read the list like a pilot's checklist, only to be used when in the cockpit. If you're saying this is just how you are as a person, fair enough, I can see why they give you the list

The way you described the threads is biased. The way you've claimed some posts are "offensive" in the context that Nils asked merely because your opinion differs is dishonest and the way you have paid lip service to allowing debate yet at the same time making it abundantly clear that you're, very publicly, removing money from Nils for no other reason than, he has supposedly, in your mind, allowed points of view you don't agree with to be posted, stinks.

Had you said "Hey guys, I think these religious threads should stop, I know I've contributed to them, and I know I have made my own views on politics and religion known for a long time here, and I realise that all points of view have been freely expressed, I didn't really subscribe to PS to read about religion...." I'd have some respect for your honesty and integrity and your reasons for wishing to unsubscribe.

...and TBH I don't think that would be a completely bad idea.

Better yet, you could have justed asked Nils how to unsubscribe, or even PM'd him with your one-sided view of the forum and the reasons you were leaving.

I've expressly said people have a right to debate this crap, as they do anything, but I am not going to fund it or engage with it.

Yes. However what you have also said, is that you weren't willing to fund a site that was a forum for CCC propoganda.

Which at worst is simply not true, at a stretch it's a biased and one-sided view of the threads in question.

What this forum has had, is a few threads where anyone can [and usually have] put their views with equal prominence. There's certainly no promotion of religion on the site outside of those posts. The idea that there's any "association" to be had with someone else's posts or that Nils has used your money, in any sense, to fund them is absolute rubbish.

Whatever thin argument you might find to link your money to posts made, would have to cover all posts, and there are several posters here who are clearly atheist and several who, in spite of their religious beliefs, accept evolution and science - and in the scheme of things far, far more posts are talking about piano chops. Post your address and I'm sure folk will club together and send you the 0.02p to cover your contribution to religious fundamentalism, if it makes you feel better

[brahmsian]

I've expressly said people have a right to debate this crap, as they do anything, but I am not going to fund it or engage with it.

And imod I have once participated in a debate about creationism on this forum because I was astonished and dismayed to discover that one member held these views.

I have since discovered she isn't alone.

I'm concerned about the CCC because not everyone who spouts the creationist  line is aware of where it's coming from or what's behind it or quite how sinister it is.

I'm all for open debate because that's the only way these sorts of views can be brought out into the open and revealed for the rubbish they are.

That's a very ignorant position to hold. Before you discount my post as CCC propoganda, I am an athiest, and hold no religious beliefs of any kind.

Now, what evidence do you have with regards to your assertion that people are spouting CCC progaganda in the "Anything But Piano" Forum? Indeed, as leahcim said, there is no promotion of religion going on in this forum. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these are the recent threads that have religious subject matter:

m1469's "Where in the Bible are the 10 commandments?"- Hmmmm.... no right wing religious propoganda here

pianolearner's "Thou shalt respect children", which although it uses religion as a starting point, is really a topic about caring for and respecting children, regardless of religious orientation

stevie's "which is cooler, heaven or hell". uhhhhh.... purgatory

tds's "for those who pray". This thread is directed specifically at those who hold religious beliefs. What is it to you?

The "Is there a God" thread. Seems like a simple question (?) , one that is open for healthy, multi-sided debate.

It makes me "shocked and dismayed" that people are unable to accept that other people have different beliefs and aren't able to tolerate them in a public environment. So what if you think other people's ideas are "rubbish"? Just ignore it and move on with your day. People are free to debate and discuss their views in public, and this forum is no different. Nowhere has religion been forced upon you or has CCC propoganda been spewed. No one is forcing you to read the threads that have religious subject matter. There is ZERO "religious right agenda", that makes it sound like individuals here have some kind of uterior motive with regards to their topics. They are simply asking questions and wanting to discuss aspects of their religious view.

Your ignorance makes me sick.

Have a nice day.

[Stolzing]

Personally I do find a lot of the posts banging on about creationism and rantings about passages from the bible offensive

Are you calling my mother a monkey?

[ada]

Dear leachim and brahmsian

I have obviously annoyed you, and I'm sorry about that.

But please let me respond (with apologies to zheer for lack of humour and apologies in advance for continuing humourlessness )

leachim, with regards to your point about 'turning (journalistic integrity) on and off", this isn't journalism, this is an internet forum. Í'm not pretending to be doing anything other than state my opinion. Where exactly am I lacking in integrity? I've said publically and plainly what I'm doing and why.


I intentionally made my decision to unsubscribe public because I did have a gripe about about excessive bible bashing (particulary in relation to CCC ideology) and I wanted to state that openly without getting into a dumb "god created the earth .. no he didn't .. yes he did" argument because it's boring and counterproductive.

 As for me not wanting to fund a forum for politically distasteful views, I fail to see anything wrong with that and I'd do it again tomorrow. If I subscribed to a forum and subsequently found out it was stacked with neo nazis I'd do the same. (And before you jump on me I'm not suggesting PF is stacked with neo nazis).

That's a very ignorant position to hold. Before you discount my post as CCC propoganda, I am an athiest, and hold no religious beliefs of any kind.

Brahmsian, I'm not discounting your post as CCC propaganda at all.

What is ignorant about my comments? With the greatest respect, I would think "ignorant" would be more applicable to anyone who subscribes to a belief system that replaces science with biblical stories.

I don't mind people talking about whether there's a god, or if heaven and hell exists. This is one of the great philosophical questions.

I'm not mad about great slabs of the bible being quoted, and I still don't think this is the appropriate forum, but hey, I'm not suggesting anything should gets censored unless it vilifies, abuses or personally attacks another individual.

Anything else, including politics and religion, should be fair game. This is what makes dinner parties and internet forums interesting

What does concern me though is the creationist/intelligent design line that's cropping up.  Those threads are easy enough to find.

I'm not suggesting that CCC "spies' have infiltrated PF or that anyone has an ulterior motive. Some of the "culprits" have been here a lot longer than me and are much more active, and make plenty of other valuable contributions  in other areas and I for one have absolutely no right to ask them to self censor.

However, you surely can't deny that CCC propaganda (intelligent design) is being spouted in the forum, it's here in black and white.

If this stuff is going to be posted - and I'm talking about creationism not general religion - then people have a right to know where it's coming from and what the agenda is.

I don't know why you find that so ignorant and offensive. Do your own research and then tell me if you still don't think that CCC is tied to a right wing agenda.

ada

[brahmsian]

What is ignorant about my comments? With the greatest respect, I would think "ignorant" would be more applicable to anyone who subscribes to a belief system that replaces science with biblical stories.

What does concern me though is the creationist/intelligent design line that's cropping up.  Those threads are easy enough to find.

However, you surely can't deny that CCC propaganda (intelligent design) is being spouted in the forum, it's here in black and white.

What is ignorant is that you don't want to accept the fact that "CCC propoganda" is being spouted. Even if it is who cares? People can talk about whatever they wish. What's the difference between talking about a passage in the Bible and talking about intellient design?

No where has "propoganda" been posted in the forum. People are throwing their ideas out there in order to facilitate a discussion. If you could direct me to some propoganda perhaps I may reconsider my view.

Regards   

[zheer]

It also plays a role in shaping the political right and sees America as a nation ordained by god to take a leading role in world affairs.

   BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

[ada]

No where has "propoganda" been posted in the forum. People are throwing their ideas out there in order to facilitate a discussion. If you could direct me to some propoganda perhaps I may reconsider my view.

Regards

Anything that suggests

1. "the human brain/eye/little toe is so complicated that it couldn't possibly have evolved, so god must of done it"

2."darwinism says we evolved from monkeys and that couldn't possibly be true because people have souls and we are superior to animals"

3. intelligent design isn't discounting science, intelligent design is compatible with science"

4. "We're not trying to push our views onto schools or challenge the secular education system. We just want to give people the opportunity to see the other side and make their own decision"

5.Ïntelligent design isn't creationism and we're not even talking a god here. We're talking about an intelligent being"

These statements (some of which contain blatant misrepresentations of darwinisn) are examples of CCC propaganda. People who repeat them haven't arrived at them independently or through their own consideration. They're simply buying a line that's being put out there by a particular interest group with a particular agenda.

Now I promise this is my last post on this subject. I think I've got it out of my system now. Thanks for your participation, and sorry for any offence.

I can't promise I'll stop reading creationist posts (I have a morbid fascination with them) but I promise I'll hold my peace.

ada

[maul]

It's not "CCC propaganda" it's a freakin opinion. I have arrived at a couple of those conclusions without ever reading any of it, anywhere. I'm not a creationist in the least, and I've come up with my opinions by THINKING ABOUT IT. Try it sometime. Let's not forget you are the one who's been fed that anyone who holds some of those viewpoints are automatically "CCC followers".

You can clump practically any opinion into some "agenda". Oh he's following the "liberal agenda" or the "conservative agenda" or the "Sorabji is good agenda". I guess you are following the "scientific agenda" or perhaps the "whiney people agenda". You're pretty pathetic... coming in and threatening to remove your subscription because of someone posting a certain opinion (who would have thought, on a messageboard). It's also funny how you single out the opinions you mentioned, yet have no problem with pianistimo quoting the bible constantly or talking about flying unicorns and God knows what else. Obviously they are following a much more extreme version of the "creationist agenda" yet you have no problem with it. You're just wrong all over the place, man.

[rc]

Nothing wrong with differing views, but you've crossed the line of tolerance here Ada, as in: you're being very intolerant towards such peoples beliefs... With tinges of conspiracy-theorist kookery.

Nobody really cares what you think about this 'CCC agenda', that's irrelevant in light of this little thread here... What's the deal, couldn't change any minds so now you want to use your PF subscription to protest?

Slightly misdirected, your subscription doesn't have much to do with some creationists who also visit the board. The subscription is to support the site, have access to sheetmusic, and now it looks like there's a music dictionary. I think the wealth of piano-knowledge more than makes up for any arguements that might come up...

Go create a blog, where other opinions can't bother you.

[jas]

Anything that suggests

1. "the human brain/eye/little toe is so complicated that it couldn't possibly have evolved, so god must of done it"

2."darwinism says we evolved from monkeys and that couldn't possibly be true because people have souls and we are superior to animals"

3. intelligent design isn't discounting science, intelligent design is compatible with science"

4. "We're not trying to push our views onto schools or challenge the secular education system. We just want to give people the opportunity to see the other side and make their own decision"

5.Ïntelligent design isn't creationism and we're not even talking a god here. We're talking about an intelligent being"

These statements (some of which contain blatant misrepresentations of darwinisn) are examples of CCC propaganda. People who repeat them haven't arrived at them independently or through their own consideration. They're simply buying a line that's being put out there by a particular interest group with a particular agenda.

None of these things are in line with an official Piano Street policy, though. They're just the subjective musings of its members. I could point you to several posts that argue for precisely the opposite. There are plenty. (I only know this because I'm one of the doubters. )
I have to agree with those who have said that this isn't propaganda, anyway. What I'd b more inclined to be worried about is the fact that someone has construed it as such. As brahmsian and leahcim have said, it looks more like people just throwing ideas out there and seeing what others think.
But if it's something you feel too strongly about to simply ignore, maybe your intention to unsubscribe is for the best.

Jas

[Tash]

you know, it is possible just to not go to the 'anything but piano' section and just take advantage of the other rooms and sheet music. really, religious debates take a small portion of what is discussed- if it offends you then don't read it, it's that simple. this forum is so ridiculously biased in a lot of things i don't think religious propoganda stands out too much

[ted]

Very sensible, Tash; I agree. Even in the "Anything But Piano" section I can see little evidence of a philosophical plot of the type mentioned. Indeed, most posters seem of the contrary opinion anyway, quite aggressively so in some cases. If, in everyday life, I were to rule out contact with religious people, I would miss out on a great deal of stimulating musical thought and probably lose most of my closest friends. The forum is primarily for the discussion of piano music, and as such is pretty good. Now and then I venture into general discussions, but not very often. 

However, when push comes to shove it is the right of any member to resign for any reason at any time.