Two-Part Inventions used as practice material

[alzado]

I discussed this with my piano teacher at my last lesson where I was playing several of Bach's two-part inventions.  She indicated they WOULD be valid practice pieces.

In other words, if a person does not wish to do scale studies, or Hanon, or Czerny, or similar types of practice pieces, why not just play the two-part inventions?

I could be wrong about this, but I suspect that Bach may have initially written these as practice pieces.  There are 15 of them, all in different keys.   

I suspect that the artistic merit of the two-part inventions proved to be sufficiently great that they "rose above" their initial and rather pedestrian purpose.  Certainly there are some beautiful melodies in some of them.

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As a different and only loosely related question, how does the set of two-part inventions relate to the Well Tempered Clavier?

Thanks in advance --

[m1469]

Well, I am certainly not the most knowledgeable individual on this forum when it comes to either Bach's works or Hanon's, however, I am interested in this subject.  Your teacher's response with regard to these pieces and excercises have been similarly expressed on this forum by Bernhard and others. 

I have been considering this view-point for a while now and experimenting with various things.  My first desire is to distinguish between Hanon and Czerny, whose works are scarcely related to each other and therefore are not truly within the same category.  Czerny's works are by and large fairly musical, whereas Hanon's generally are not considered as such.  Czerny's works were designed less as mere muscle training activities and more for the purpose of addressing musical problems (though tied to shapes in the hands and fingers -- as musical challenges always are) that come up within Romantic music.  The intention of the two composers, Czerny and Hanon, are quite different, and therefore, it is reflected in their work.  If Czerny's studies had the name Beethoven written on them instead of Czerny, they would be regarded differently even though the word "study" is still applied.

Moving along with your thoughts however, it all depends on what is the pianist's intention.  The bottom line is that nothing can truly replace anything else.  Bach and Hanon are not truly interchangeable, in either direction, just as learning how to flip hamburger patties at McDonalds is not interchangeable with learning the art of creating fine cuisine.  The reason lay in the fundamental intent behind their creation, and the experience a particpant has in listening to and learning more about them.  Hanon composed his book with a certain line of thinking in mind, while Bach composed these inventions with a completely different line of thinking than was Hanon's.  Though Bach's inventions and sinfonias, and even his WTC have been regarded as excersises of sorts, they in no way compare with the excersises of Hanon's (and for now I would like to leave Czerny out of this mix).

Bach's works were regarded as compositional excersises and more than anything else, their very essence and existence was meant to display ingenuity and artistry, ultimately for the sake of those very things.   These works were meant to demonstrate and open the doors to what can be done with a motive and a new form of instrument tuning.   They were meant to demonstrate structure and color, etc..

Hanon has more to do with sheer physicality, which for some people has validity, but it still does not accomplish anything close to what Bach's work does.  And with Bach's works, while some of those physical skills may indeed be gained during the process of learning, they do not accomplish anything close to mere physicality. 

My opinions regarding what is needed and what is not are still on the fence, which right I reserve.  However, I think it is important to understand that one does not replace the other.  So, again, it depends on what is the intention of the pianist as to why one would do which thing.  It all depends on what, exactly, the pianist is actually wishing to practice.

And the bottom line is, if the big idea is to do what is fun and exciting, who cares what the name on the music is ?  If sheer physicality is exciting, so be it (as long as you are not actually injuring yourself in the process).   We like the things we like for the reasons we like them.  Nobody else has to understand, nor can they ever truly.



m1469

[alzado]

What a very interesting and thoughtful posting!

Most reflective and insightful.

Thanks for taking the time     ................

[BoliverAllmon]

yep the inventions can be a great study tool. I love to work on them. I have learned most of them. They are definately easier than the WTC. Just having to think in terms of 3 or more voices is a challenge in itself.

[allchopin]

The inventions were originally intended as compositional examples for Bach's pupils, not as performance studies.  They are great to perform, but they are more 'useful' to study, particularly, as m1469 mentioned, to identify how one can transform a melody (combination of motives), interplay it between multiple voices, and artistically rearrange themes (among other things).  I would not expect to gain much performance technique from these pieces (as you might from scales, Hanon, etc.) - for this, you should turn to something like Chopin studies (as an option for advanced study).

[steve jones]

I disagree. I think the Inventions are great for fundamental piano technique. Iv been using them religiously, and its bought me on leaps and bounds. Infact, I think they are the perfect prep for the Mozart sonatas.

Lets not the forget that the Chopin studies are very advanced, and Id think that only students of a Gr8 plus level could attempt them properly. Im certain they are great for virtuoso technique, but for beginner - intermediate students the Inventions are a godsend.

Add to that the fact that they're quite fun to play, far more so than the Hanon exercises. I reckon if you could mix the Inventions with some Czerny then you'd be in good form to move up to Mozart and Beethoven sonatas.

 

[m1469]

In one respect, every single thing that we do helps everything else that we do.  When narrowing that down to more specific things though, it is perhaps more a matter of what is most pertinent with regard to the situation at hand.



m1469