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Author Topic: Best piano sonata ever written?  (Read 30160 times)
kriskicksass
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« on: February 27, 2006, 03:09:08 AM »

What's your vote? I'm definitely for Beethoven's opus 111.
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pita bread
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« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2006, 03:46:30 AM »

Barber:
Sonata, Op. 26

Beethoven:
Op. 111
Op. 109
Op. 90
Op. 81a

Scriabin:
#5, Op. 53
#7, Op. 64
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mcgillcomposer
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« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2006, 04:23:46 AM »

Beethoven Op. 109-111
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sauergrandson
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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2006, 04:39:50 AM »

Brahms' Third
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musicsdarkangel
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« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2006, 05:44:21 AM »

........ Beethoven's Tempest is growing on me like never before....


also, Appassionata, Liszt sonata, Rachmaninoff's 2nd, Brahm's f minor, all of Schumann's, and Chopin's 2nd-3rd
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tompilk
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« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2006, 11:53:44 AM »

Scriabin Posth. E flat minor
Scriabin #2
Rachmaninov #1
Oh... and i almost forgot another of my favourites... Liszt Sonata in B Minor... (I love this one... as good as the Scriabin)
Also, I dont understand why the majority people like the later Scriabin, when the early Scriabin is like a frantic version of Liszt/Rachmaninov with dense walls of sound? I thought there were many Rach lovers here! Im not saying that Scriabin is like Rach of course... oh no... definitely not...
 Cool
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kreso
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« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2006, 05:19:02 PM »

My favourite sonatas are:

Scarlatti-Sonatas (some of them)
Haydn-Sonata E flat major no.52
Mozart-Sonatas KV.284 D major
                          KV.332 F major
                          KV.330 C major
                          KV.333 B flat major
Beethoven-Sonata op.2/3 C major
                               op.10/2 F major
                               op.31/3 E flat major
                               op.53 C major Waldstein
                               op.57 Apassionata
                               op.111 c minor

Liszt-Sonata b minor
Brahms-Sonata f sharp minor
Chopin-Sonata no.3 in b minor op.58
Scriabin-Sonata op.2 in g sharp minor Sonata fantasia
Medtner-Sonata in f minor op.5
Rachmaninov-Sonata in b flat major op.36
Tchaikovsky-Grande Sonate G major
.....


I think that Beethoven wrote the most amazing piano sonatas, but on the top of the list and my favourite sonata is Sonata in B flat major D.960 op.posth by Franz Schubert.
 
                                                                   
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thalbergmad
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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2006, 05:53:45 PM »

Nobody has mentioned the Schubert Op79, so i am.
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mikey6
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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2006, 10:51:44 PM »

I would think that some of the works listed would fall under "my favourite sonata", not really the "best sonata ever written".
eg. the Schumann sonata's while being great to play and listen to are not his best works. - go the fantasie Cool
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mcgillcomposer
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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2006, 11:44:23 PM »

I would think that some of the works listed would fall under "my favourite sonata", not really the "best sonata ever written".
eg. the Schumann sonata's while being great to play and listen to are not his best works. - go the fantasie Cool

I was going to post the same comment yesterday Tongue  BEST sonata people...not your favorite Tongue  Although the two may be the same...:O
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piazzo23
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« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2006, 01:50:48 AM »

Torre Bertucci - Sonata in c# minor
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sharon_f
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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2006, 02:47:30 AM »

Beethoven, Op. 106.
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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2006, 04:46:14 AM »

Beethoven Op 18 by Far
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mikey6
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« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2006, 05:33:22 AM »

Beethoven Op 18 by Far

huh? String quartets the op.18 be.
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etudes
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« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2006, 07:02:22 AM »

...many of them
but for now Alkan grandes Sonata op.33
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« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2006, 02:16:16 PM »

Sorry. My mistake

Correction: Beethoven Op 13 by Far.
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« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2006, 12:16:11 AM »

For me, there's only one answer: Beethoven's op. 106.  There is no other piano sonata that I feel compares with its penetrating, almost frightening vision.
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musicsdarkangel
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« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2006, 03:02:51 AM »

well, my favorite sonata is Rachmaninoff's 2nd....

but the best sonata ever written in terms of genius and what not, IMO, would be between Liszt's Sonata and Appassionata
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phil13
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« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2006, 03:37:58 AM »

If only Grieg and Sibelius had written sonatas later in life... the early sonata for each one has their own pitfalls, but if they had written some in their maturity...

I don't know what might be the best sonata ever written, but my vote would go toward anything tonal that had the same connective tissue as the Rach 3 and the same melodic beauty as Rach 2. (the concerti, that is)

Phil
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panic
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« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2006, 03:55:09 AM »

Argh, phil, you hit it on the head. That's exactly the problem. I've been trying to find a sonata that puts the drama and melodic drive and passion of Rach 2 and 3 into solo piano terms and have found no such item. Either they are of the same harmonic quality but are too short (Scriabin's) or are the right expansive length but fall a bit short of the dramatic mastery of those concertos (Rach 1 and 2).

On a side note, I once listened to some of the piano sonatas of J.P.E. Hartmann and thought they were very, very well constructed.
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phil13
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« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2006, 04:28:50 AM »

Argh, phil, you hit it on the head. That's exactly the problem. I've been trying to find a sonata that puts the drama and melodic drive and passion of Rach 2 and 3 into solo piano terms and have found no such item. Either they are of the same harmonic quality but are too short (Scriabin's) or are the right expansive length but fall a bit short of the dramatic mastery of those concertos (Rach 1 and 2).

On a side note, I once listened to some of the piano sonatas of J.P.E. Hartmann and thought they were very, very well constructed.

Maybe I should write one.  Grin

Phil
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jre58591
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« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2006, 05:53:55 AM »

rachmaninoff 2nd sonata (original version, not the horrible revised version)
alkan grande sonate 'les quatre ages'
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panic
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« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2006, 06:04:29 AM »

Maybe I should write one.  Grin

Phil

I want to do the same, like write a couple of 45-minute grand minor sonatas. Smiley

I kind of wish that more composers, particularly for the piano, would have followed the example set by Rach Sonata 1 and Mahler 6 in having finales longer than first movements. In minor sonatas, the finale is often where the struggle to turn minor into major takes place, whether successful or not. Who says that that struggle can't be more dramatic and drawn out than the statement of the minor theme that is often the first movement?
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countchocula
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« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2006, 07:12:55 AM »

Liszt Sonata
Beethoven 109, 110, 111
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notturno
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« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2006, 09:07:33 PM »

Kabalevsky Sonata #2, Opus 45


Joseph
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alessandro
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« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2006, 11:21:08 AM »

Just read that Alban Berg sonate op.1 is one of the most beautiful pieces of music ever written
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michael_langlois
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« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2006, 12:15:32 PM »

.
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burstroman
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« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2006, 01:18:21 AM »

Beethoven, Op.106
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musik_man
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« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2006, 09:19:19 AM »

Beethoven 106 or 111
Liszt Sonata in B minor

If you think that any of those is less deep or emotional than the Rach concertos, you need to listen to them again.
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« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2006, 02:50:30 PM »

Beethoven's Pathetique Sonata
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« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2006, 02:57:34 PM »

If I had to say my favorite I might say Beethoven's Op. 109 or Scriabin's 5th.  I have no idea what the best sonata ever written is though.
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alejo_90
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« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2006, 05:12:15 AM »

Beethoven :
- Op.13
- Op.53
- Op.81a
- Op.106

He wrote the most amazing sonatas of all the piano music
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« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2006, 05:50:38 AM »

In my opinion Beethoven and Schubert were such masters of the sonata form that about half of Beethoven's and a few of Schubert's could be candidates for best ever. Others might include the Liszt and the Alkan.
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avetma
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« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2006, 07:50:02 AM »

1. Liszt's Sonata in B minor
2. Beethoven's Op109
3. Rachmaninov in Bb minor
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klavierkonzerte
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« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2006, 08:33:20 PM »

juluis ruebke wrote one of my favorite sonatas, it's a really intense sonata.

chopin second is also great.
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« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2006, 08:44:23 PM »

Sorabji's Sonata No. 4, anyone? Maybe not THE best (what could possibly be that?), but up there among them...

Best,

Alistair
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JCarey
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« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2006, 08:59:32 PM »

Sorabji's Sonata No. 4, anyone? Maybe not THE best (what could possibly be that?), but up there among them...

I was thinking it, Alistair, but didn't have the courage to post it. What about #5? Do you think that it is up there with the 4th sonata in terms of quality?
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« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2006, 08:27:53 AM »

I was thinking it, Alistair, but didn't have the courage to post it. What about #5? Do you think that it is up there with the 4th sonata in terms of quality?
Yes, I do - but had I refrained from mentioning it here for the simple reason that it cannot be heard by anyone in performance or recording as yet - and, in any case, a new edition needs to be made before anyone can even begin to learn it. It's substantially more than twice the size of the 4th, incidentally.

Best,

Alistair
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Alistair Hinton
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« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2006, 01:48:49 PM »

 I second the Liszt Sonata, I heard people ranting on about it's greatness, so I got myself a recording and understood why Tongue
 But you can't go wrong with:
Prokofiev - Op.82 Sonata No.6
 And simply the most amazing Sonata:
Medtner - "Night Wind" Sonata op.25, no.2

Edited To Conform To Michael Langlois' Ingenious Idea:
 Prokofiev's Sonata No.6... besides I die when I hear the last 2 measures of the final movement, it has a tune that whilst sounds... ingenious! It also rips at your ears, with his carefuly repeated methods of use. And the second movement is just... cute? Cheesy I dunno tbh, guess this one always taps an F# in me!
 Medtner's... wow... the complexity SOUNDS unbelievable, and it still produces amazing coherent sound ^_^;; I mean, the amount of chords being ripped through this piece, and the never ending (so it seems!) variations of the Theme tune is just SWEET, impressively written! I think I prefer the second (or final) movement though, I just LOVE the Theme cascading in the Cadenza! The pinnacle of all Sonata's Cool
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ahinton
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« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2006, 02:04:44 PM »

And simply the most amazing Sonata:
Medtner - "Night Wind" Sonata op.25, no.2
This is indeed one of Medtner's most astounding achievements - pianistically, structurally, emotionally - although there are other sonatas by him that run it close in terms of importance, not least "Sonata-Ballade" and the two lagter ones, Op. 53.

If the period from, say, the latter part of the 19th century up to around the end of WW2 is considered, there are quite a few ambitious and fine contenders, I think, although (as I indicated previously) it would be foolhardy to try to place any one of them at the top of a list; in addition to the three Medtner mentioned above, there's Godowsky's, d'Indy's, Dukas's, Rakhmaninov's Second, Szymanowski's Second and Third, Sorabji's Fourth and Fifth - and that's just for starters...

Best,

Alistair
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Alistair Hinton
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« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2006, 06:51:48 PM »

This is indeed one of Medtner's most astounding achievements - pianistically, structurally, emotionally - although there are other sonatas by him that run it close in terms of importance, not least "Sonata-Ballade" and the two lagter ones, Op. 53.

Wah! I can't wait to indulge in his other Solo Piano Repertoire then! I have another recording of his, the Op.27 Sonata In F# Major, which I am still only becoming familiar with. I am curious to hear the one that is sidled with the NightWind, which also has a weird name I can't remember off hand... beings with an 'S' at any rate!

... Godowsky's, d'Indy's, Dukas's, Rakhmaninov's Second, Szymanowski's Second and Third, Sorabji's Fourth and Fifth...

Can't say I heard anything by d'Indy or Szymanowski, let alone heard there names... I'll add them to my investigation list. What sorta style music did they compose? To be honest I'm hoping for the Rachmaninoff (or anyone similar) style rather then a Xenakis one or summit :/ (I don't mean to diss, just not entirely my thing Xeni's music!)
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presto agitato
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« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2006, 08:24:29 PM »



Can't say I heard anything by d'Indy or Szymanowski,

As far as i know D´Indy was a pupil of Cesar Franck
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The masterpiece tell the performer what to do, and not the performer telling the piece what it should be like, or the cocomposer what he ought to have composed.

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« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2006, 12:28:28 AM »

Scriabin Posth. E flat minor
Scriabin #2
Rachmaninov #1
Oh... and i almost forgot another of my favourites... Liszt Sonata in B Minor... (I love this one... as good as the Scriabin)
Also, I dont understand why the majority people like the later Scriabin, when the early Scriabin is like a frantic version of Liszt/Rachmaninov with dense walls of sound? I thought there were many Rach lovers here! Im not saying that Scriabin is like Rach of course... oh no... definitely not...
 Cool
Anyone got a PDF (or link) for the Scriabin op. posth Eb minor sonata? It's not in my Dover reprint of the "complete" sonatas.
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bearzinthehood
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« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2006, 02:45:26 PM »

Nobody has mentioned the Schubert Op79, so i am.

??

I'm not aware of this sonata.  What's the D number?
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« Reply #44 on: March 07, 2006, 06:53:52 PM »

More traditionally tonal: Rachmaninov 2nd original (Ashkenazy recording)
Toward atonality: Scriabin 5th, 7th, or 10th
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superstition2
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« Reply #45 on: March 07, 2006, 07:52:57 PM »

Just read that Alban Berg sonate op.1 is one of the most beautiful pieces of music ever written.
It's a very nice piece. I like Uchida's recording. It's not among the best sonatas ever written, though.
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« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2006, 10:00:21 PM »

It would be more interesting if people would justify their selections, rather than create a page-long list of sonatas.  Liszt interests me most because of the fact that it is really 30 minutes of well-done motivic transformation.  I don't know whether it is the best sonata written, but the tens of worlds that he manages to take one to with the same thought in half an hour astounds me.
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« Reply #47 on: March 08, 2006, 07:41:22 AM »

Beethoven Hammerklavier, Waldstein, op. 111, Tempest, op. 109
Brahms #3
Liszt b minor
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« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2006, 06:32:21 PM »

beethoven appassionata
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« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2006, 07:59:33 PM »

Schumann op.11
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