Pianists... is intelligence necessary to be good?

[jason2711]

Just a question I've been considering.  My parents seem to think that if I was to study music, then I would be bored because it wasn't enough of an intellectual/ academic challenge.  They have not studied music so therefore are not in a very qualified position to say.  However, I would like to point out that playing the piano is the only thing which I do and am NOT bored.

Whilst I appreciate there may be some who fall through the gaps, as there usually are, I was wondering whether intelligence is an underlying characteristic of most successful performing pianists.... or are things such as creativity or artisticness more important?

[nedgerhart]

Hmmm. Depends on what "good" really means. Technically superior, an expressive interpreter,  an engaging entertainer, all three? Can you be considered good if you are master of only one of these categories?

And what is "intelligence"? being a sudoku master, a problem solver? or being good at sightreading? I have known many musicians who can jump through difficult passages with ease and charm an audience with their personal style of playing, who have been lousy readers.

 

[cosine]

Hmm, intelligence is quite a large brush. I think one has to be a bit brighter than the town dummy to be a musician, but that doesn't mean that one needs to be a Mensa member.

So, average intelligence is probably extremely helpful for being good at the piano.

[rc]

Without getting into the ambiguity of just what 'intelligence' is... Brain juice is definitely a useful tool in learning an instrument.

The most important factor to become a pianist (or anything really) is probably the desire. Which implies a love of the music. If you love the music enough, you will develop the kind of intelligence needed for your goal.

As for the challenge aspect, there are probably few things more challenging than learning an instrument.

...Your parents probably want you to become a doctor.

[gorbee natcase]

Consise answer

Intelligence is the abillity to solve a problem, so the faster you can solve (learn) the more efficient you are period.

[gorbee natcase]

I once had it put to me this way, we are born with a " full jug" and a set of cups labled
ARTISTIC........MATHEMATICAL.......LANGUAGE...... SELF CONTROLL.........etc

what happenes if you over fill one of the cups. (your drive for music means you are giving a lot of time, energy and thought to one subject.  Does this mean we are neglecting other aspects of our lives. And I thought to my self where would we be if people didn't. The world would be pretty boring. Mozart had little knowledge of how to look after himself financialy as he blundered his money, was he shying away from an aspect of his life in which he was unable/unwilling to take controll of  

[alzado]

I remember reading a few years ago that there are quite a few variants of "intelligence."

Special intelligence, pattern recognition, verbal, mathematical, and so forth.

I am sure if you researched the variations of intelligence, you could go somewhere with this.

[emmdoubleew]

Beethoven had trouble adding 2 and 2. Seriously.

[arensky]

Beethoven had trouble adding 2 and 2. Seriously.

What? He was a pretty shrewd businessman, so I have trouble with that notion. Where did you read that?

[arensky]

The dictionary tells us that intellegence is...

1a. The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge. b. The faculty of thought and reason. c. Superior powers of mind.

And that intellect is...

1a. The ability to learn and reason; the capacity for knowledge and understanding. b. The ability to think abstractly or profoundly.  2. A person of great intellectual ability.

I think your parents may be confusing the two things, which are very different. Or maybe as rc says, they just want you to be a doctor or lawer!

Note that intelligence includes the verb apply, which denotes action. Which is what a pianist does, they take their knowledge and directly apply it physically to music. This not the case with intellect which requires the ability to reason, and learn, but not nessacarily do anything with that knowledge. Of course one could argue that reasoning is action, but of a different sort.

Being a good pianist requires intelligence, it does not require intellect. The two are often confused. Being an intellectual doesn't nessacarily make you intelligent, and you don't have to be an intellectual to be intelligent, although the intellectuals want you to believe that! Hence all the trappings of academia and the "intellegentsia".
 
Show your parents "Traditional Harmony" by Hindemith and some of Schoenberg's books on theory.
Then leave some music history books around for their perusal; any worries that they may have about your being underchallenged will probably evaporate. If they do not, rc's assesment is probably accurate.

And now to fix the toilet! Can I apply my intelligence succesfully, or am I merely an intellect? 

[rc]

Great post Arensky!

I remember discovering that difference in myself. I hate to think of how irritating I must have been when I was a snot-nosed intellectual know-it-all moron.

 

So far as plumbing is concerned I have neither intelligence nor intellect. Just anger and brute force, which sometimes even works!

...and if Jason's parents just want him to become wealthy, well then he's already got something in common with nearly all of the greats!

[maxy]

this must be some kind of joke....

in a piano forum??? to ask if intelligence is required to play piano???

no absolutely not, we are a bunch of moronic monkeys.

practice will make you lose all mental capabilities, so, having none at the start is a big plus.

[zheer]

, I was wondering whether intelligence is an underlying characteristic of most successful performing pianists.... or are things such as creativity or artisticness more important?

   When we consider what intelligence means, we might be tempted to say Doctors, accountants and Lawers are intelligent, well thats true, however a person might be accademic but not neccesaraly intelligent. The same is true for pianists he or she might be very gifted but not intelligent enough to solve simple problems.
      I think i know what your parents mean, because i have asked a similar question, at one point i needed to read books and not just notes and more notes and more musical notes. So it does amaze me haw a lot of top pianists can spend all their time memorizing notes and training the fingers. Anyway if you think about Alfred Brendel, you will realize that it is possible to be a top pianist and a person with knowledge in many other things like art, poetry etc etc. Its also good to know that we have all our lives to learn and develop.

[emmdoubleew]

What? He was a pretty shrewd businessman, so I have trouble with that notion. Where did you read that?

Obviously I was exagerating.
Beethoven was entirely left brain. Which means he was creative enough to be good at doing business (of which he did plenty with editors and piano dealers) but is known to have completely failed his basic school subjects. And have you ever read his letters? He has the mentality of a child. 

By the way, business isn't math  . I've taken business 101 and I can assure you that other than basic stat it has nothing to do with being a human calculator.

[timothy42b]

Perhaps we should distinguish between intellectual ability and intellectual interest.

There are people who have a need for intellectual stimulation.  They go to the library a lot, they wonder how things work, they try to figure stuff out, they want to know more.  Learning academics isn't a chore for them, they enjoy it.  They tend to become research scientists, some types of engineers, etc.  They like to debate and discuss and nitpick. 

They do not tend to become piano players.  That doesn't mean a piano player might not be just as intelligent, but by and large he/she is interested in art, creativity, etc.  He does not find long solitary hours in the practice room as boring as the first type might. 

If your parents are concerned, they probably feel you have a need for this type of stimulation.  They may be right or wrong.  If they are right you will have to have a hobby like sudoku or you will be eventually miserable being only a piano player. 

[lilypiano]

Perhaps we should distinguish between intellectual ability and intellectual interest.

There are people who have a need for intellectual stimulation.  They go to the library a lot, they wonder how things work, they try to figure stuff out, they want to know more.  Learning academics isn't a chore for them, they enjoy it.  They tend to become research scientists, some types of engineers, etc.  They like to debate and discuss and nitpick. 

They do not tend to become piano players.  That doesn't mean a piano player might not be just as intelligent, but by and large he/she is interested in art, creativity, etc.  He does not find long solitary hours in the practice room as boring as the first type might. 

I think  I disagree.  People that need intellectual stimulation find music fascinating.  A music history professor in my music department got his undergrad degree in astrophysics, and a violinist that just performed at my school got a degree in physics.  Several of the music majors at my school are double majoring in music and a science.  One of the pianists is a math grad student.  My advisor said it's very common for people with scientific, analytical backgrounds to major in music and  be good at it. 

[Mozartian]

Some form of intelligence is necessary to do anything really well.

[rc]

Some form of intelligence is necessary to do anything really well.

Oh, I dunno 'bout that one... I normally have to turn off my brain in order to do my job.

[steinwayargentina]

Hi, its very hard to me to write this because my english is not very good but I will try anyway.
I think there are certain aspects that are needed for become pianist, I means we have first to determine what are these things that you need and I think that Intelligence is certanily one of thats, but you have to add also, artistic talent/musical sensibility, and also the fisical/muscular skils who are involved on playing an instrument.
Lets analize that:
1- If you are a guy who have only  very good and fast fingers and strong Octaves but dont have any artistic talent, or the capability of analize a musical phrase of a Beethoven Soanta for example and based on the writing decide how to play, that you are only and Athletic, and music is not that because if music were that It will be a discipline for the Olympics maybe. You will never also perform a well played Fugue of J.S. Bach.

2a- If you are a guy who is very sensible and artistic talented, but does not have the fisical  condition and skills and muscular control to be a profesional pianist  and you also dont have the analytical capability to just understand how the musculature works for perform octaves and fast scales, well, you will be a very good amateur pianist and probably a very aclaimed guest at partys.

2b- If you are a guy who is very sensitive and artistic talented and also have a normal rate of muscular skills toplay profesionally the piano, you will succed like a pianist, you will be certainly a very good performer and specially if you dont try to perform late piano sonatas by Beethoven or Shoembregs works or even some Bach, or Brahms works that are very "intellectual".

And

3- If you have the inteligence factor it can be used like a tool for the guy who is Sensible and artistic talented but does not understand some aspects of technique, it will help him in analize watching videos or just looking to his teachers how to do, It will be also a tool for the one who is normally artistic talented and have the skills to play well the piano in musical complicated pasages that needs more analitical skills to decide what to do.

Finishing, I consider that in all the greats exponents in every discipline is ever an Intelligence factor and music is not the exeption but for be a great in music you also have to have other things. finaly, I think music is realy transparent just tell me how you play the piano and I will tell you how you are. In conclusion if you use your Intellegence in the right way it will helps you whith anything.

Pablo Rocchietti