...errghh, i was asked to judge a band competition at a local place

[tds]

and coz they asked really nicely, i finally agreed. i told them that i didnt play pop or rock music. to make the story short, they still wanted me to be one of the three judges. i thought, ok!

neways, i need some tips, really. i look abit uncertain, dont i? there, i need help from those who know alot about this type of music and/or has some sort of experience with it. so, what kinda things i should be watching for? other than the obvious; balance/teamwork, individual skills, arrangements? anything? anyone?

[pianistimo]

when you say local place - do you mean like a bar or something with adults playing?  is it only pop and rock or is this highschool/college band playing popular band music?  i think bob is the one to ask for the latter.  he said something about teaching band - although i think he said something about primary level band.  anyway - he'd know.

maybe there are different expectations for different levels.  as you say about my criticism sometimes - you don't want to 'butcher' them, but you don't want to leave important things unsaid.  probably according to the levels they are playing at.

you have probably been given some criteria already if you are one of three judges.  maybe you should review the criteria with the other judges and ask how last years competition went.  look at the comments if you can.  and, possibly come by the scene of crime before it happens and listen in through the doors to see what everyone's sounding like at this point.  that will give you an idea of #1 levels of skill you are comparing.  it's really hard when you have a really really good band and then a lousy band.  how can you be nice?  one is good and one is rotten...but you don't want to discourage the young people from trying.  just don't be too hard on the lousy band and too easy on the really good one.  they probably don't sound like a military band unless you are at the college level and then that would be a treat! 

what i find the most put off in listening to a band , is if the band leader doesn't really give definite cues.  read up a little on conducting and have a few comments for the band leaders, too, even if they are also instrumentalists.  that's really where you're forte probably is as a pianist.  you conduct and play yourself so they will listen especially to what you have to say about rhythm and keeping things together.  am assuming you'll have a copy of their music - but ask for a copy ahead of time if you can get it so you already know what's supposed to be heard.  listen to a recording?  if you have a few comments for individual players, that's good too.  especially if you combine praise with criticism (as with piano).  'you did well ____, but i think you can improve on _____'

if it's their own arrangements and a very casual affair - you're wasting your time.  especially in a bar situation.  after a few drinks, everyone thinks they sound good.  may as well be a swimsuit or wet t-shirt competition (not sure what competitions guys have at bars) at that point.  and, that is purely preference judging with very basic criteria.  you are probably too smart for getting all serious for an event that is not going to be taken seriously by the contestants.  in that case, have a few drinks and just say what comes off the top of your head.  are you getting paid for this?

[tds]

oh, i shouldve mentioned that the competition is organized by a contemporary church association. so mostly they sing modern christian songs ( as you know, they are really in the style of pop music). also, i might have confused you with the word "band" here, i didnt mean that to be like marching bands, or brass ensembles or anything like that. perhaps the more apt terminology be music group-which usually consists of a drummer, keyboard player/s, electric guitarists ( bass guitar players), singer/s, and amplifiers, and all kind of other electronic devices?

[tds]

i am sooo ignorant

[pianistimo]

my advice would be to stay farrrrr away from this.  it demeans your level of sophistication and brings it down to 'infighting' among people who shouldn't be competing anyways.   these people don't take criticism kindly and think they sound good.  what they need is someone to tell them that the sound system is probably not doing any of them justice, that the singers can't sing, that the electric guitarist can't read music, and that the drummer is too self-involved to stop when everyone else does.  the idea of 'inspired' music can only go so far.  no thank you from me anyway.  maybe that's snobbish, but you really have no basis of musical judgement or criteria in this kind of situation.  it's music played  for pure pleasure and fun and not for you to combine with your skills.  if it were me or you - we'd cut the electric guitar unless he was really good.  that sound alone can drown everyone else.  how can you REALLY hear a voice with an electric guitarist that wants to be heard, too.  just my own two cents.

[tds]

oh geez, now that i already said yes to them and they been so nice to me.
one thing about me, i am a highly sensitive person--i can get a migrane throughout the day and night ( usually followed by me throwing up before i could finally go to bed) from any slight unwelcome outside influences, like strange smells, certain lights, loud music, strange crowds, etc.

there is no way that i can NOT judge this competition. i have to keep my words. i just hope i wont get massive migrane ( its a thee day competition ). oh and btw, have you seen a judge with earplugs?

[pianistimo]

three days!?  feign illness before it happens.  just be gone.  out of there.  (you may not have a mother-in-law to have practiced this before).  look at your diary one last time and realize you have double booked with an engagement in another location (far away) and make sure it's a place that you can relax and forget this close call.  practice your next recital repertoire.  better use of your time.

ps i'm not saying that all mother-in-laws will give you three day headaches.

[tds]

haha,.....interesting! but i dont think i will follow your suggestion, this time, heh

ok, so here is the condition: tds is still stuck with this voluntary job.

i need advice...

[nicco]

Just go with your gut feeling 

[Bob]

(Bob did not read this entire post.)

I think you could apply these ideas to any type of ensemble...


Tone quality

Intonation

Expression and style

Interpretation

Rhythm

Articulation

Dynamics

Stage presence

"Other"


Just do your best.  If someone asks you, they must know something about you.  If they don't, then they find out the hard way right?

If you're judging many groups, take those categories (or they might even give you a sheet for this),  give each category a set of number 1-5 or whatever you want, and use that to compare ensembles to each other.  It's a rubric.  If you want, before you start, write out what a 1 really means and what a 5 really means.  That can help.  After several groups, it's easy to go brain dead.

They should give you a score to follow.  If not, then just do your best.

At least, the judge sheet rubric gives you some kind of numerical rating.  You could weight the categories if you want. 

It depends if they just want comments or if they want you to rank the groups and decide who's the best. 

If you're doing a lot of groups, you really need something like a rubric so you can be a little more objective.  The first and last groups should have the same standard of comparison.

The groups might appreciate your comments.  It's always good to give a positive comment first, then some advice, then another positive comment.  A positive "sandwich" around the real criticism.

If they don't ask for numbers, don't give them numbers.  That can invite people to nitpick and argue in an attempt to get more points.  If you tell them who you thoguht was best and maybe why, you sound intelligent and people may agree and not argue.  If you tell them the first group got a 12.4 and the second got a 12.5, then someone will come up ready to argue.  If all they want is comments, then great, give comments.  Some groups don't care for "fluff" and positives.  They only want the negatives so they can focus on fixing things.


I read more... I see it's a pop band/Christian group.

If they sing, you can rate them on
vocal tone
enunciation -- can you understand the words?
pronunciation -- do they sing "ur"s?



Of course, ask the organization what your supposed to do, what they expect, how you're supposed to judge.  They may answer all this for you.

Hope that helps some.

[tds]

whoaaa some really helpful tips there bob. thank you you

[alwaystheangel]

This sounds like fun to see.  Where are you located? Maybe I can watch!  Bob's was a really good response.  And I think that even though you do not have experience with this type of music, don't look at it with disdain, whatever you do.  People hate classical music snobs, to put it nicely.  Rock is music and can be very valid music too.  I've found that most people that are clssical msuicians just don't have any respect for anyother type of music and that's just wrong.  I think in this day and age that Rock can actually have some very valuable insights into modern society.  For example U2 older stuff like Sunday, Bloody Sunday. 

Sorry, whent way off on a tangent there.... ( I really like rock, and classical so I hate when my two favourite types of music look at each other in disdain, I hope you won't take offense to my comments, piannistimo, I don't mean to be rude, I'm just passionate about that subject just as you are about mother-in-laws among other things )

I don't think I really have anything of value to say except with the ear plug comment.  My band conductor will often wear these ear plugs to cut off any extra noise so he can hear us better.  I have now Idea if they're special or just ordinary earplugs but I'm pretty sure that you could just get away with normal ones too. 

Have you ever sat down and watched american Idol or Popstar or anything of that sort.  Watch Simon Cowell, He'll give you some tips!

[clef]

This sounds like fun to see.  Where are you located? Maybe I can watch!  Bob's was a really good response.  And I think that even though you do not have experience with this type of music, don't look at it with disdain, whatever you do.  People hate classical music snobs, to put it nicely.  Rock is music and can be very valid music too.  I've found that most people that are clssical msuicians just don't have any respect for anyother type of music and that's just wrong.  I think in this day and age that Rock can actually have some very valuable insights into modern society.  For example U2 older stuff like Sunday, Bloody Sunday. 

Sorry, whent way off on a tangent there.... ( I really like rock, and classical so I hate when my two favourite types of music look at each other in disdain, I hope you won't take offense to my comments, piannistimo, I don't mean to be rude, I'm just passionate about that subject just as you are about mother-in-laws among other things )

I don't think I really have anything of value to say except with the ear plug comment.  My band conductor will often wear these ear plugs to cut off any extra noise so he can hear us better.  I have now Idea if they're special or just ordinary earplugs but I'm pretty sure that you could just get away with normal ones too. 

Have you ever sat down and watched american Idol or Popstar or anything of that sort.  Watch Simon Cowell, He'll give you some tips!

Simon Cowell, your kidding right? 

"Simon:  Do you take singing lessons
Auditionee:  Yes I do
S:  Who takes you for singing lessons
A:  I nice lady from...
S:  Do you have a laywer?
A:  No I dont have a laywer
S:  Well what you need to do, is to get a lawyer, and sue your singing teacher"

what a bully

[alwaystheangel]

Sorry  that the humour was lost on you.
I'm asumming you do not find that amusing, then?
Of course he's a bully, it's show business, their ratings wouldn't be even close to as high if Simon wasn't on.

[alwaystheangel]

How did the Judging go? Has is happened yet?

[tds]

yes, it's over right after my unexpected recital in the last evening of the festival. judging went very well, and i had so much fun, thank you. they want me to come back and be on the jury again next year.

being a classically trained musician, i had so much to say, but i tried to be very constructive, concise and at the same time just and well integrated. warmest, tds

[alwaystheangel]

Sounds wonderful! Congratulations!