so how bad was it?

[BoliverAllmon]

so how bad was the hispanic protest for you today? it didn't phase me, I didn't notice anything different and I am from a heavy hispanic community. I saw some kids protesting, but that was just stupid, so I rolled down my window and screamed.

NO HABLA ESPANOL, GO BACK TO MEXICO

[jre58591]

so how bad was the hispanic protest for you today? it didn't phase me, I didn't notice anything different and I am from a heavy hispanic community. I saw some kids protesting, but that was just stupid, so I rolled down my window and screamed.

NO HABLA ESPANOL, GO BACK TO MEXICO

i didnt seem all that affected by the protests. and i live in the city with the most protests: los angeles. there is one reason why i wasnt affected. i didnt go out of my house monday. two reasons:i was sick, and i didnt want to see those protests. however, i am a latino-american, yet i feel NO sympathy whatsoever for these illegal immigrants. i dont think they should be shipped back though, for they have carved their own niche into society. i believe there should be a program to somehow give then citizenship through some mutual agreement. if we shipped them all back, our economy would go into a downward spiral because no one else wants to fill these jobs.

for the record, its NO HABLO ESPAÑOL

[pianistimo]

i was greatly affected because it wasn't just mexican people, but cuban, irish...etc. - they all come with a great dream and hope of making a better life.  no different than any of their  or our predecessors (which many, btw, have relatives that were here a long time ago).  they should be able to go to their local courthouse and register somehow to be naturalized, fingerprinted, given a temporary social security number and have a card mailed, and start paying taxes on their work.  most americans don't have a problem with FREEDOM, we have a problem of paying taxes for illegal immigrants who don't plan on naturalizing and want to freely cross the border (obtaining all the rights of citizenship without paying taxes).  i think that when people become citizens - it should be a process where they CAN have success in their life and job and be able to afford to pay for their family to live together.  freedom has a price.  it is learning to live within the laws of the culture you are assuming.  there is great freedom of cultures here - but, it was based upon 'in God we trust' at the beginning.  now we are becoming a 'conglomerate'
everywhere and we are already in a 'new world order.'  there isn't the same 'national pride' as once was - and the strength of america is being zpped by those who don't really love it.  if you love america - you will hold it up and cherish it for the freedom and not want to take it's freedoms and blessings forgranted.  for those people that are appreciative and work hard - more power to their cause.  for those who want to just take from america and make it powerless (terrorizing) - may they be caught and deported.

ps once people are citizens they can have more say about wages and fair pay.  it might hurt certain businesses at first until better provisions can be made - but it will also cut unfair work practices (long hours, child labor, etc).  if people feel that they are being treated fairly and honestly, i think they will work the same way.

[Siberian Husky]

so how bad was the hispanic protest for you today? it didn't phase me, I didn't notice anything different and I am from a heavy hispanic community. I saw some kids protesting, but that was just stupid, so I rolled down my window and screamed.

NO HABLA ESPANOL, GO BACK TO MEXICO

ignorant

[BoliverAllmon]

it isn't ignorance. it is just my way of getting a laugh. I don't feel sympathy for these people one bit. they broke the law, the government is looking like they are going to give them amnesty and they still go protest. It isn't hard for anyone to become a citizen of the USA. We have procedures to go about, but when people circumvent these procedures they don't deserve special treatment. it makes the hard work and effort that other people put into becoming a citizen null in void and for nought.

[pianistimo]

maybe they didn't have the money or the transportation?  in that case, we should really have compassion for the ones that are ALREADY here.  the border that is being built will change the system - which obviously needs changing (due to terrorism) - but this way the rest will need workers here to send money back home to afford to come in the normal route if they want to become citizens.

i'm sort of in a joking mode this morning about the next item.  what happens to americans who illegally cross into mexico?  say for a mini-vacation or something.  can you just walk across.  and, then if you crossed back into the usa - they'd probably catch you and send you back to mexico and you'd be saying 'no, no, i'm really a us citizen - i just do this to check border control.'  and, they say - well, we don't do it this way any more.  i know one person who actually wants to retire in mexico because he says that he could live on his retirement income better and he loves mexican food.

i know it's a problem today because of the costs and all to american taxpayers to pay for 'illegal'  immigrants - but somehow i can't help having nostalgia too for the many years this country could affort to take anyone who 'made it' here.  can you imagine how tiring it is?  i really felt for that cuban boy that was returned to cuba after surviving in the water so long and avoiding sharks, etc.  i thought about him for a very very long time.  such a young boy - and so brave.

[BoliverAllmon]

maybe they didn't have the money or the transportation?  in that case, we should really have compassion for the ones that are ALREADY here.  the border that is being built will change the system - which obviously needs changing (due to terrorism) - but this way the rest will need workers here to send money back home to afford to come in the normal route if they want to become citizens.

no I have no compassion for them. THEY BROKE THE LAW!!!!!! if I sneak into Mexico it is a felony. If I sneak into the USA it is only a misdemeanor. If we legalize all 15 million or whatever illegals that are already here, we are just inviting more to come over, because now they know that we have no back bone and that if they just scream a little we will roll over. I am all for immigration, but I am totally against breaking the law and getting rewarded for it.

boliver

[pianistimo]

maybe to walk in another person's shoes is more difficult because we are used to a monetary system that is 'lawful' and not used to bartering or dealing with low wages and making them spread to feed a family or look for a safe place to live and raise a family.  perhaps it's not american anymore to want to share our blessings.  perhaps we don't have many blessings left to share - but, as i see it - the more you give the more you end up recieving in return.  what makes our nation different than others is that people are supposed to be given an equal chance no matter their race, religion, ethnicity.  if they are 'illegal' but already here - are they going to be deported?  no.  there is too much effort involved in rounding up everyone and making them go back home.  so - do we just say - live according to the way you want and get free medical, school, etc. - or do we take the ones that are ALREADY here and process them and help them get onto their feet to be naturalized citizens.  then, they will be paying taxes and helping pay for schools and medical also.

[cherub_rocker1979]

Americans are allowed to cross the border into Mexico without any documentation.  People who live by the border will often go shopping in Mexico on weekends.  I know this because I've lived in San Diego, Tijuana, Juarez, and El Paso. 

Mexicans come here illegally because the immigration makes it impossible for them to come here legally.  Why do you think they all pay smugglers ridiculous amounts of money to come here and a many of them die from dehydration in the desert.  Mexicans pay a lot of taxes from their paychecks but they can't get income tax returns.  They also pay taxes when they purchase goods at the store just like the rest of us.

[lisztisforkids]

This thread is making me really angry. 

Have you ever been to Mexico? Have you seen the poverty? Just imagine being a parent of a family in Mexico, you can barley feed your family but right across the border there is the wealthiest nation in the world.

I have worked with many illegeal immigrants in food kithchens. Let me tell you right now that they are human beings to. They work long hours for little pay. Wether you like it or not, there are over 20,000 million of these people in our country working.

It isn't hard for anyone to become a citizen of the USA.

THAT IS THE MOST B.S. I HAVE EVER HEARD.  https://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/index.htm


Most Americans cant even pass the test you have to take to get citezenship...

[prometheus]

These people are abused as slaves. They do they dirty jobs but do not get payed properly because they are illegal. And now the US government wants to make them criminals too.

[johnny-boy]

These people are abused as slaves. They do they dirty jobs but do not get payed properly because they are illegal. And now the US government wants to make them criminals too.

Technically they are criminals. There is a proper procedure for entering other countries. I don’t know what country you’re from Prometheus, but I bet I would be facing criminal charges if I’d enter your country without permission.

Non-skilled workers make considerably less pay than skilled workers in the USA. Aliens should have to abide by the same standards that American citizens do. If anyone entering our country has a skill and enters legally he/she will be rewarded the same as any citizen with a skill (or non-skill for that matter). Besides, any honest job is in no way dirty or something to be ashamed of.


There are many doctors and other professionals from other countries that work in the USA making big bucks – but they entered the country the proper way.

Furthermore, even the minimum wage the illegals are earning is considerably more than they were making in their country – otherwise they wouldn’t be flooding across the borders.

John

[henrah]

What exactly is the proper procedure to cross the border? And is it really more expensive than paying someone else a lot to risk death across the desert?
Henrah

[pianistimo]

maybe it has to do with the numbers.  the immigration control probably only allows a certain number of immigrants per year - so the waiting period (for that and paperwork, is probably years). 

for the people who are ALREADY here - i say - give them a break.  i'd give a few days to a week to work for free for a site that is set up to help them immigrate legally (start the process).  suppose they need to be fingerprinted, names given (which could be a potential problem without paperwork), hometown, reason for immigration (check crime reports of their own country?), where they plan to reside (should be a place to house new immigrants if they haven't relatives or friends) whether temporary or permanent housing, and what their goals are for their future here.  if we have an address (even if it is a temporary housing location with common mailbox) we can hopefully find them in the future.  paperwork going back and forth would be really messed up if they didn't have a p. o. box or local address.  as soon as the citizenship is worked out - they would also need to obtain driving permits and licenses.  there is no doubt this is a huge undertaking - but would be POSSIBLE without taxpayer pains - if whoever wanted to serve the process would spend a day to a week donating their time to get it done.  i find this much more attractive than illegal immigrants having to always hide the fact they are here.  there is nothing to hide if you are a hard worker and are willing to be located, pay taxes, and have nothing to do with crime or terrorism. 

usually birth certificates are a problem, too, with poorer countries.  they would need to probably state their place of birth, date of birth, location of birth, and all - and would need to be honest about that.  we would have to rely on a lot of honesty if the country that they are coming from doesn't provide the documents.  perhaps having 2-3 people verify for someone who is obviously over 18.  i think we should be tougher on adults who come because some have documents, but not all - some are young kids and need a break.  especially if they are here without parents.  usually by the time one is an adult, they've taken into consideration a possible need for birth certificate, picture id, legal documentation of any kind.  guess that immigration has this pretty well figured out after all these years.  and, how many people our country can sustain at one time without going over the edge. 

the government will probably work some people out favorably, but the majority may be disappointed if it takes longer than they want.  but, for us who have lived here a long time, we are used to the way the government works.  it probably takes longer in other countries to become citizens than here - so we're not the worst.  also, we have to consider the security of our nation.  without documentation we are really guessing.  so it's a kind of computer solveable thing.  if it were up to me, i'd just check the criminal records by fingerprinting, which is shown to be 99 percent unique to each person - but i don't know if it is regularly done in mexico or other countries.  once they are checked against a criminal background - then perhaps it is safe to take their word for birth certificate, country of origin, age, etc.  it sounds harsh to first check that, but once they are fingerprinted and have an address to write down - that should solve the problem as to where to send paperwork.  we would need translators for some people to fill out paperwork, and also sites set up to teach english for a few years. 

i am positive about these steps and would gladly teach english for free to anyone who wanted to learn.  the advantages of treating people well are that they are excellent workers already - and have motivation to excel.  why not give them more motivation to 'mainstream' into society instead of remain on the fringes because of legal problems.  if they prove to be honest - it shouldn't take that long for the ones here ALREADY to become citizens.  for the ones who haven't yet crossed- i think their time is up and will have to enter legally.

[BoliverAllmon]

the thing that bothers me is that they don't protest and cause all sorts of crap in Mexico, only here. why is that? also I am tired of hearing this crap about doing jobs that americans wouldn't do. that is bogus. maybe some are too proud to do it, but many aren't. also many of these  illegals don't want to become Americans, they are more loyal to Mexico and refuse to assimilate into society.

boliver

[Tash]

excuse my ignorance, but why are there so many illegal mexican immigrants in the US anyway?

[Kassaa]

excuse my ignorance, but why are there so many illegal mexican immigrants in the US anyway?

Mexicans are comparatively poor and their government can't offer any jobs, while the US needs people who do the easy jobs.

[Tash]

so why don't they just do it the legal way?

[pianolearner]

so why don't they just do it the legal way?

It's almost impossible for a foreigner to get a job in the US the 'legal' way. One reason is that the employer must prove that there is no American who can do the job you are applying for.

[johnny-boy]

It's almost impossible for a foreigner to get a job in the US the 'legal' way. One reason is that the employer must prove that there is no American who can do the job you are applying for.

Balderdash

[pianolearner]

Balderdash

I'd be working there if it was 

[pianistimo]

headhunters go elsewhere all the time.

[johnny-boy]

I'd be working there if it was 

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin;


Whether an employee or job applicant's ancestry is Mexican, Ukrainian, Filipino, Arab, American Indian, or any other nationality, he or she is entitled to the same employment opportunities as anyone else. EEOC enforces the federal prohibition against national origin discrimination in employment under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which covers employers with fifteen (15) or more employees.

[BoliverAllmon]

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin;


Whether an employee or job applicant's ancestry is Mexican, Ukrainian, Filipino, Arab, American Indian, or any other nationality, he or she is entitled to the same employment opportunities as anyone else. EEOC enforces the federal prohibition against national origin discrimination in employment under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which covers employers with fifteen (15) or more employees.

thank you

[pianolearner]

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin;


Whether an employee or job applicant's ancestry is Mexican, Ukrainian, Filipino, Arab, American Indian, or any other nationality, he or she is entitled to the same employment opportunities as anyone else. EEOC enforces the federal prohibition against national origin discrimination in employment under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which covers employers with fifteen (15) or more employees.

If they have a green card and getting one is very difficult. This is what I meant. Which makes my first statement correct. You wouldn't know unless you have tried, and I HAVE tried.

https://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/greencard_employment.html

Step 1 - Labor Certification: Labor certification proves that there are no qualified American citizens suitable for the position that has been offered to you.
Step 2 - Petition: The petition proves that you qualify for:
a) A Green Card through employment
b) The job offered to you
Step 3 - Green Card thought Employment Application: The application itself

[prometheus]

Technically they are criminals. There is a proper procedure for entering other countries. I don’t know what country you’re from Prometheus, but I bet I would be facing criminal charges if I’d enter your country without permission.

If you are illegal you aren't a criminal yet. I have been told that the US senate is looking if and how they can make it a criminal act. So this does not compute. Either this was reported wrong or you are wrong.

Yes, people here are being deported too. But being illegal isn't a crime. They are just able to detain and deport them.
But this is a new thing because there are many xenophobes, or maybe unconscious racists, in my country. It wouldn't suprise me if this is changed after the next election. I surely hope so.

Furthermore, even the minimum wage the illegals are earning is considerably more than they were making in their country – otherwise they wouldn’t be flooding across the borders.

That's an argument that was also made for slavery. Eventhough they do not have the same rights as ordinary people, they are better off then some for being a slave and therefore they should be happy. They are doing their jobs and they are supposed to get payed that they deserve.

[pianalex]

no I have no compassion for them. THEY BROKE THE LAW!!!!

with respect, there are such things as bad laws, so that in itself does not necessarily make them culpable.  Having said that I don't know enough of these particular laws to comment in this case, but consider it was less than 100 years ago that it was illegal for women to vote, and less than 40 years  since homosexuality was illegal here (uk).

[prometheus]

Following the law is the reason why so many jewish people got deported in my country.

The law said they should so they did. Eventhough the law, police and government was run by the nazi occupiers. That is so strange to me. Screw the law, always! Use your own moral compass.

[zheer]

Following the law is the reason why so many jewish people got deported in my country.

. Screw the law, always! Use your own moral compass.

  The Law is always changing and adapting to current events in society, however it is almost always in the intrest of the rich and influential.

[johnny-boy]

Prometheus,

You're constantly mixing oranges with apples in your unique reasoning process.

BTW, what country are you from?

John

[JCarey]

Well, I have nothing against immigrants. However, I DO have something against people who come into the country illegally, have children so that they can get benefits such as welfare, and abuse it. Our government appeals to these people by giving them these benefits, often without expectation of repayment. And so these illegals continue working for minimum wage, don't bother to learn English, and force people who were born here to continue paying pointless taxes and such to support them for it.

And please, don't tell me that it's impossible for them to work their way up and contribute to society. There have been many successful immigrants from the past who have become quite wealthy through their hard work. Not every immigrant, Mexican or otherwise, lives in poverty.

[cherub_rocker1979]

Well, I have nothing against immigrants. However, I DO have something against people who come into the country illegally, have children so that they can get benefits such as welfare, and abuse it. Our government appeals to these people by giving them these benefits, often without expectation of repayment. And so these illegals continue working for minimum wage, don't bother to learn English, and force people who were born here to continue paying pointless taxes and such to support them for it.

And please, don't tell me that it's impossible for them to work their way up and contribute to society. There have been many successful immigrants from the past who have become quite wealthy through their hard work. Not every immigrant, Mexican or otherwise, lives in poverty.

Mexicans don't need welfare because they work their tails off.

[BoliverAllmon]

Mexicans don't need welfare because they work their tails off.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! yes, they are hard workers but they milk the system. I saw a study just a week or so ago that says that the average illegal immigrant will cost the government 45,000 dollars more than they contribute. 45,000 times 15 million is roughly 675 billion friggin dollars. so whether they need it or not, they are getting it. the only reason why the govt. is even giving a crap right now is because they realize that there is a huge voters potential. they are not worried about the betterment of the country, just themselves. If you got rid of all the illegals there would still be plenty of jobs that immigrants could come and do. think of it this way. according the the labor statistics roughly 7 million people are jobless currently (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm) I venture to say that there are considerably more than 11-15 million illegals in this country that have jobs. that means that even if every single legal American had a job there would still be an excess of 7 million jobs still needing workers. I don't mind immigrants coming and working in America. I have a problem with people breaking the law, milking the system, not assimilating into society, and complaining and screaming racism when anyone has a problem with this.

boliver