Which one is the hardest of 32sonates by Beethoven?

[pagim]

.

[gruffalo]

havent played any of them, but i Waldstein strikes me as the hardest.

[thalbergmad]

The Hammerklavier i would guess, but i have never played it and do not desire to learn it.

Thal

[pianistimo]

maybe it really depends upon the student as to which one is hardest (according to what techniques are used and if they are good at memorizing or not).  the tempest is hard to pull off musically.  you have to go completely with the 'tempestuous' feel - so the beginning has to be calm and placid.

[florestan9]

Most if not all of the 'late' sonatas (op. 90 and beyond) are harder than the Waldstein, or so I've heard.  I've never touched the late sonatas and probably won't for a long time, as they are very complex works both musically and technically.  Most people seem to think that the Hammerklavier is the most difficult.  Op. 111 is also very demanding (try trilling on 4-5 while playing themes with 1-2-3  ).

[JCarey]

The Hammerklavier is by far the most difficult. In all aspects.

[maxy]

op 106

just not human

[kreso]

op.106-Busoni once told that one human life is not enough for that sonata.. (and then Heinrich Neuhaus said: Maybe this is a reason why Busoni played it so good...)

[kriskicksass]

Op. 111 is also very demanding (try trilling on 4-5 while playing themes with 1-2-3  ).

That's not the greatest challenge in Opus 111, and the same texture also appears in Opus 109. It's not actually that hard once you learn the pianistic 'trick' to it. (Basically, you skip a trill note to play the melody note.)

[d.shosty]

I just watched a masterclass of Earl Wild today who said that op. 10 no. 3 was the hardest.

he's a bit senile at this point, but he was brilliant today.  It was really incredible to see him teach!

[Waldszenen]

Apart from the Hammerklavier, which is obviously the most demanding, the Waldstein is also particularly challenging.

[krittyot]

The Late Sonatas are quite biatchy in terms of difficulty.

 

[pagim]

The Hammerklavier is by far the most difficult. In all aspects.

For me, HammerKlaviar is not so hard as the Op.110 and 111 one, It's musicallity is fairy hard, but i've played whole 32 sonatas and it took me around 3 years. but differnt people feel different things.

[pianistimo]

dear d.shosty,  did you say op. 10 #3  - there's some tricky handwork - but maybe it's making sense of complete craziness in that piece.  you have to think like mozart on that one.  it's like a crazy person talking back and forth to themselves.  but, there's a charm to it to, once you get all the voices down.  i shouldn't say this - but the piece was easy for me.  am i pious now? 

ps  after having learned it i was embarrassed, though, to put it on program.  it isn't technically that hard - but making it have meaning IS.  and, of course, IF you don't like beethoven and it's played poorly - it give people a HUGE reason to hate beethoven even more.  i happen to love beethoven - but it's too big a risk for me yet to play.  i'd much rather play a better known piece first and THEN that piece.  don't want to be the cause of someone saying 'yup, that's beethoven alright.'  i'd rather hear 'wow, beethoven is such a cool composer.  he can even write crazy music and have it sound good.'

[d.shosty]

I agree.  I believe that that was what Wild was talking about - making the piece make sense, musically.  The girl who played it was very good though.  The second movement is probably the hardest, it has to be perfect!

[elevateme]

whaaaaaaaa i bet most of you havent even played hammerklavier, its really really not that bad. waldsteins harder

[sharon_f]

Ok Ive got an exam coming up in winter, and for it i have to learn a Beethoven sonata (or a few) & im not sure which one to do as ive never done any. please help    which are the best ones to learn?

whaaaaaaaa i bet most of you havent even played hammerklavier, its really really not that bad. waldsteins harder

Hmmm, if you've never played any Beethoven sonatas....

[airasia]

Hmmm, if you've never played any Beethoven sonatas....

haha that is funny, i was about to say, people tend to find the piece that they're learning at the moment the hardest, even without any knowledge of a much harder piece.  I'll bet that  this person just started learning the Waldstein and never even touched Hammerklavier. 

[thalbergmad]

haha that is funny, i was about to say, people tend to find the piece that they're learning at the moment the hardest, even without any knowledge of a much harder piece.  I'll bet that  this person just started learning the Waldstein and never even touched Hammerklavier. 

Perhaps we have a genius in the forum who has learnt the lot in 3 weeks.

[JCarey]

For me, HammerKlaviar is not so hard as the Op.110 and 111 one, It's musicallity is fairy hard, but i've played whole 32 sonatas and it took me around 3 years. but differnt people feel different things.

Yeah... right.

I think most pianists here would agree that the "musicallity" required in the "HammerKlaviar" is quite a bit more than "fairy hard," and also that just about anyone who took only three years to learn "whole 32 sonatas" must play them pretty badly.

whaaaaaaaa i bet most of you havent even played hammerklavier, its really really not that bad. waldsteins harder

Haha...

[pagim]

whaaaaaaaa i bet most of you havent even played hammerklavier, its really really not that bad. waldsteins harder

Haha, I bet, you haven't tried any of those, the difficulty of those two is much different.

[jas]

Haha, I bet, you haven't tried any of those, the difficulty of those two is much different.

Becuase your own post was much more realistic ...

[maxy]

I once talked to Zimerman and he said something close to:  "at first, the late Beethoven sonatas are harder but I find that at my current age,  the early sonatas give me more trouble."

my vote still goes with op 106 

[krittyot]

Hammerklavier is the only Beethoven piano sonata Horowitz got stuck when he was 25 years old.

[elevateme]

has anyone here learnt it?

[daniloperusina]

I've not played op 106, but a few others; op2:1&2, op14:1 (in concert), op27:2 (in conc), op31:2, op53 (in conc) and op109 (in conc)

My experience is that it's very personal what one finds more or less difficult. Believe me or not, I find op 14:1 more difficult than op53!:-) Why? Because of a descending left-hand scale in the last movement! Horribly difficult, for me at least. I have less problems with the octave glissandi and trills in op53, than with those scales. Also, op31:2, first movement; possible to learn by heart in a few hours, but then spending months trying to get it to sound anywhere near musically coherent!

Perhaps it's down to natural gifts and what you've spent time practising through the years. In short, I DO NOT like pieces with descending left-hand scales!:-)

[bearzinthehood]

I've not played op 106, but a few others; op2:1&2, op14:1 (in concert), op27:2 (in conc), op31:2, op53 (in conc) and op109 (in conc)

My experience is that it's very personal what one finds more or less difficult. Believe me or not, I find op 14:1 more difficult than op53!:-) Why? Because of a descending left-hand scale in the last movement! Horribly difficult, for me at least. I have less problems with the octave glissandi and trills in op53, than with those scales. Also, op31:2, first movement; possible to learn by heart in a few hours, but then spending months trying to get it to sound anywhere near musically coherent!

Perhaps it's down to natural gifts and what you've spent time practising through the years. In short, I DO NOT like pieces with descending left-hand scales!:-)

Wow that's incredible, I have not played the Waldstein, but Op. 14/1 is amongst the easiest of the Beethoven sonatas for me.  It doesn't even compare to some of the ones that people seem to think are medium difficulty (Tempest for example).  What order did you learn them in?  Perhaps you resolve many technical issues before attempting Op. 53, which made it seem easier in comparison.

[daniloperusina]

Wow that's incredible, I have not played the Waldstein, but Op. 14/1 is amongst the easiest of the Beethoven sonatas for me.  It doesn't even compare to some of the ones that people seem to think are medium difficulty (Tempest for example).  What order did you learn them in?  Perhaps you resolve many technical issues before attempting Op. 53, which made it seem easier in comparison.

Yes, you see? I shudder in horror when I think of op14:1!:-) Tempest and Waldstein would rank as "easier" for me. This is of course not taking consideration to length of piece.
True, though, op14:1 was learned and performed perhaps 12 years ago, and I swore to myself I'd practice left-hand scales and come back to it, but, alas, I never did (practice).

Anyway, "which is the most difficult?" can't be answered. Maybe a poll would show which one most people find most difficult, but that doesn't have any relevance to a specific pianist.

I like what Arrau said once: "A real interpreter doesn't play what 'suits' him; he must also be able to play what doesn't come to him naturally. That is real interpretation."

[airasia]

Perhaps it's down to natural gifts and what you've spent time practising through the years. In short, I DO NOT like pieces with descending left-hand scales!:-)

And there are no descending left-hand scales in Op. 53?  Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there plenty of descending LH scales?  In fact I was just playing the part with the RH trills and melody and I'm SURE there is a left hand descending scale there.  How can you find a LH scale from 14/1 harder when in Waldstein you have to do the trills and melody in addition to the LH scale?

[daniloperusina]

In fact I was just playing the part with the RH trills and melody and I'm SURE there is a left hand descending scale there

You mean in the beginning? True, left-hand descending staccato scale there, but much slower than in 14:1. Then, a bit later, comes the octaves + sixteenth triplets scale runs, some of them LH desc. but they also give me less problems than 14:1. It's something peculiar about that very passage, a B major scale starting on E, descending a ninth, starting the whole run without accenting the first note. Maybe I play the movement too fast, rather presto than allegro as marked. But I know that if I was to perform 14:1 in concert, I'd learn the whole sonata in a few hours (I do know it since before), perhaps needing to polish it a few days, but those nine descending notes I'd need at least two weeks to come close to mastering them! I'd even consider some hand-crossing trick!:-) 

[krittyot]

Had you taken out the Hammerklavier choice, the poll would have been more interesting.

[mikey6]

Had you taken out the Hammerklavier choice, the poll would have been more interesting.

exactly - isn't this an extremley obvious question? (then again, if 106 went, 111 would probably get the nod)

[arensky]

Keep missing this. I'm with the overwhelming majority; op.106.

[nanabush]

106 looks badass, and it's so much longer than nearly all of them.  And also, how can you learn 32 sonatas in 3 years?  So you learnt about 1 sonata a month, the harder ones adding like a week?

[krittyot]

106 looks badass, and it's so much longer than nearly all of them.  And also, how can you learn 32 sonatas in 3 years?  So you learnt about 1 sonata a month, the harder ones adding like a week?

Some sonatas are technically not challenging. True, the 32 sonatas take a life time to master.

[beethoven2]

Appassionata or Hammerklavier

[ilikepie]

Hammerklavier, as far as I've heard.

[dave santino]

Hammerklavier in terms of endurance and the difficulty of interpreting such a mammoth piece, also Op. 90 mvt 1 has a tricky left hand figure marked piano where you're leaping tenths and octaves whilst trying to make a soft melody sing. That gave me a few problems when I was doing it for one of my Grade 8 pieces. There was a fantastic program on BBC4 earlier this year, around the time of the Leeds comp, "Barenboim on Beethoven", basically a masterclass on the Beethoven sonatas. He turned Lang Lang's Appasionata from a good reading into a great reading in only half an hour. IMO, anyone that wants to hear what the sonatas should sound like has only to listen to either of Barenboim's cycles.

[pianowolfi]

Also here I tend to say op. 111. Others may be technically harder. But for playing this sonata you need such a broad concept, such a strong intensity which can not be build up by only practising. All energies of your life have to be involved. And the deepest thoughts you have ever thought. And of course the most true love you have to give.

[kelly_kelly]

LOL, someone voted for 49-2 

[ihatepop]

The Hammerklavier is definately the most difficult, in my sense.

ihatepop (uhatepop 2 )

[franzliszt2]

The hammerklavier is just huge!! And hard, but op111 is one of the most incredible pieces of music ever, and very difficult. I would say op111.

[phil13]

Um...what's the point of having all the obviously easy sonatas on the poll?

You look down the results, it's 0...0...0...0...0...1 for Pathetique...0...0...and then you get 58 votes for Hammerklavier.

Looks like we've got a winner.

Phil

[la_leggierezza]

and, what´s your favorites?


make a poll on that

[presto agitato]

Op 2 num 3 could be the hardest (after Hammeklavier)