french v german v italian v russian v spanish v english

[elevateme]

ok, i was talking to a friend and his teacher said to him, youre only good at french music.
and he said to me french music is the best so it doesnt matter. but we're discussing it atm so i said id post it on here

for the record all austrian composers are put in germany
and chopin in france
really really hope i havent missed anyone realy obvious

[prometheus]

Well Rooney is injured. Zidane isn't part of the French team.

But Russia didn't manage to qualify this time. But next time they have Hiddink, so who knows what will happen.

I think out of the ones you listed Italy and Germany will score the best.

[elevateme]

rooneys not ruled out

[elevateme]

even if he doesnt play england will do better than germany and italy

[prometheus]

If you already know the answer then why did you ask people's opinions?

[elevateme]

welll, i wasnt really asking about the football

[prometheus]

Then which sport are you talking about?

[thorn]

Then which sport are you talking about?

if you read the question above the poll it says "best music comes from which country in your opinion"

where did the idea of sport come from?

[gyzzzmo]

What about Austria and poland? Chzechoslowakia?

[musik_man]

What about Austria and poland? Chzechoslowakia?

Austria is counted as German.  Since Chopin goes in the French column, Poland doesn't have much(Gorecki and Penderecki.)  Czechoslovakia is hardly overflowing with top rate composers too(only Dvorak and Smetana.)  The real question is why on earth England was included.  Between Purcell and Elgar, they didn't even have any decent minor composers.

Quite honestly, I can't understand anyone who votes for any country other than Germany(Bach, Brahms, Beethoven, Mozart, Mendellsohn, Schubert, Mahler, Schumann, Telemann, Handel, Bruckner, etc) or Russia(Tchaikovsky, Moussourgsky, Borodin, Rimsky-Korsakov, Rachmaninov, Prokofiev, Scriabin, Stravinsky, Shostakovich, etc.)

[gyzzzmo]

I ment Hungary, not chzechoslowakia (or whatever). Vienna had very different culture that time too, so cant really include with germany. Wasnt Chopin born in Poland?

[elevateme]

yeah youre right england taken out.

[musik_man]

I ment Hungary, not chzechoslowakia (or whatever). Vienna had very different culture that time too, so cant really include with germany. Wasnt Chopin born in Poland?

Germany didn't exist till the mid 1800's.  Until that time there was only a set of small states with similar cultures.  Austria and Prussia were the two largest.

[prometheus]

For countries to compete there must be a sport. You can not compete in music.

[henrah]

Unless you count music as a sport, which in the technical feats side can hold truth, especially as it tests the endurance of pianists, and also strength of fingers (though you may more commonly call this dexterity). In that sense, regarding stamina and strength, it does become a sport when you compete two pianists against one another and are just judging on those two aspects, disregarding musicality and interpretation. Obviously everyone can perform great technical feats without judging accuracy, so accuracy will have to be a part of judging technical ability of who's the fastest, strongest and longest enduring.
Henrah

[henrah]

Wait a sec....you cannot compete in music? Ooopsy me...


Just realised that what I said only regarded playing of the composers music, but you could still use it in regard to the composers playing, i.e. Bach's improvisational skills against Liszt. Though they may be completely different styles and genres, you can test it on length of improvisation (judging repetition of ideas and ability to come up with new ones as it goes on).

Also, when you say you can't compete in music.....what are all these music competitions for? Competitions are for performers to compete against one another, and when music involves it becomes a competition in music.
Henrah

[prometheus]

Well, you can compete in music. But music is not meant to be a competition. Especially not in the sense this topic presents. I mean, Schoenberg and Bach are both german music but are nothing alike. These is no such thing as 'german music'.

[bennom]

Well, you can compete in music. But music is not meant to be a competition. Especially not in the sense this topic presents. I mean, Schoenberg and Bach are both german music but are nothing alike. These is no such thing as 'german music'.

"german music" is music from germany. 
And yes, bach and schoenberg share some typical "german" virtues (counterpoint and form), that separates them from for instance Pergolesi and Puccini ("melodical" composers), or Rameau and Debussy (harmony and elegance) or Tschaikowsky and Schostakovitch (emotional power and tragic melos).
Most people like to hear national clichés in music. Stupid? Yes. Fun? Yes.
 

[prometheus]

Sure, even Schoenberg and Bach share some things. But does this mean that counterpoint and form are german?

I don't think it makes any sense at all to categorise music by country. Let alone after doing to see which one 'outcompetes' the other.

Nations are nothing more than lines on paper. Even if you are going to do this you should d it by ethnicity or community. Nations often cut through nations, ethnicities and cultures.

[viking]

Russian music is by far the best. 

[bennom]

I don't think it makes any sense at all to categorise music by country. Let alone after doing to see which one 'outcompetes' the other.

I know, it's really wrong. 

But now, we have to do it, at least in this thread.

[bearzinthehood]

Hmm, the categories are a bit too narrow and not entirely inclusive.  Still, if we lump modern day Germany and Austria together we get:

Beethoven, Bach, Schubert, Brahms, Schumann, Haydn, Mozart

No contest IMO.

[gruffalo]

rooneys not ruled out

hes got a metatarscle injury. hes not officialy "ruled out" but it is unlikely he will recover to a fit enough state. but, who knows what could happen. he does seem superhuman on the pitch.

[gruffalo]

i would probably favour France because i is better at playing the impressionist style (debussy and ravel), but i also love music by messaien, Poulenc, Faure, but thats more hovering over the singing side.

[prometheus]

Well, he will go to Germany. Seems to me his only chance is a desperate action; putting him in the pitch in overtime in the quarter of half finals, a lot of tape and a lot of pain killers. I don't think it's a good idea. But when you are a professional sportsman you just can't give up these things.

[gruffalo]

Well, he will go to Germany. Seems to me his only chance is a desperate action; putting him in the pitch in overtime in the quarter of half finals, a lot of tape and a lot of pain killers. I don't think it's a good idea. But when you are a professional sportsman you just can't give up these things.

i would have thought it the other way round, hes a proffesional and cannot risk permanent damage. i guess they are desperate, without Owen and Rooney, England have not much left. we just have to see if players, like Crouch and this new young striker they are taking a gamble on, can pull it off.

[prometheus]

In general they, I mean all of football, do not seem very professional with handling injuries.

I am not sure but I think he broke one of the bones in his foot before and now two of them are broken. Last time it took 6 weeks for him to recover from one broken bone. And he broke it again. No idea if that was just bad luck and how long agon he broke the bone for the first time.

Actually, I think teams have as much chance with or without their top players. About half the teams can actually win. It is just shape, how the team develops through the tournament and a lot of luck.

[gruffalo]

yes, they can keep the game moving, but they need some decent strikers. otherwise, goals will not be scored.

[prometheus]

I don't know the current english team that well. Can't say if that is a problem. Surely you must have some decent strikers? The problem is that if you take a disabled striker in the selection than you have one less striker as long as the person is injured.

My country's team has strikers too many. Hasselbaink and Makaay weren't even considerations. But both of them are top strikers. They just don't fit in the 4-3-3 system. And the coach still has to drop one of the four strikers that are being considered.

[gruffalo]

their skill is not the problem at the moment. the problem lies now is that they are over-paid and spoilt. they need a real manager to motivate them. could you imagine looking up to Sven? i heard them discussing it on radio 4 (i think). they have just been getting lazy. but, yea the strikers is a big problem. there are no big scorers after Rooney and Owen, in my opinion. but who knows what they two newbies can pull off.

[etudes]

France for Alkan (Henry from Arsenal)
Hungary for Liszt