Anti-American Sentiments

[prometheus]

Yes, many countries. And yes, people have to fight for these rights. Democracy was fought for. They aren't awarded by a generous government. I sympathise with you.

But let's go back to those countries that supported the war in Iraq and those that didn't. Let's look back at Rumsfelt's 'old Europe' and 'new Europe'. The countries that are least democratic supported the war in US. And in these countries the most people opposed the war. The amount of people against the war in Italy and Spain were huge. Bigger than in France and Germany.

In the end old Europe is just less democratic. Poland, Ukraine, Latvia, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Czech, etc. So Rumsfelt insulted 'old Europe' because they are too democratic.

I mean, even the people in Turkey managed to get their government not to support the war military. The government wanted to, but they just couldn't take the rist. Turkey isn't really a example democracy. If the people in Turkey can do it...
In the end Turkey managed to help a bit after all.

I protested three times against the war. In the end my country only wanted to give political support. Yes, I was defeated. Then these people were reelected, barely. And now they are sending troops to a dangerous area of Afganistan. My country in on the leach of the US and a lot of people do not really have a problem with that.

Also, some governments were voted out because of their support.

But think about it. This protesting against a war that had not even started is totally unheard of in history. Look back at Vietnam. It took years before some protesting against the war started.

[gruffalo]

i was actually going to comment on protesters. at first i agreed with the war in Iraq (i was young then, about 13 i think), but then when i found about all the lies i was really cheesed off. im quite glad they have got rid of Saddam, but they have failed to make peace with the civilians (pointing blame at both sides' troops' misbehaviour) and therefore it is one huge cock-up. i didnt mind the anti-war protestors around the time of the invasion and plus a few months in to the war, but the amount of protests that are happening is ridiculous. i mean, we cant just leave Iraq now. we started something, we have to finish it or else that will cause even more damage than we already have. these protesters should start thinking about the troops. if i was a soldier (almost joined the TA, still considering), i would be really p*ssed off about all the anti-war protests. they get enough grief having to fight wars, let alone come back to a lot of knobs slagging them off. ok, it isnt as bad as the public reacted towards them after Vietnam (which all U.S. who did so should be ashamed of themselves), but it's still not healthy and quite demoralizing for soldiers who have to deal with enough trauma or simply being fed up.

[musik_man]

Prometheus, Chavez recently announced that he will hold an 'election' to decide whether he should serve a 30 year term.  Any doubts I had about him being un-democratic are now confirmed.

[johnny-boy]

i mean, we cant just leave Iraq now. we started something, we have to finish it or else that will cause even more damage than we already have - Gruf

It's time to cut losses (on both sides) and get out of Iraq. It ain't gonna get no better!

While we're at it, let's pull the rest of our forces home from other countries to protect our homeland (and its borders) - that’s what our taxes are suppose to be used for.

John

[prometheus]

Prometheus, Chavez recently announced that he will hold an 'election' to decide whether he should serve a 30 year term.  Any doubts I had about him being un-democratic are now confirmed.

If that is true than that sucks. His assosiation with Castro didn't promise much good. Chavez has never been a friend of democracy.

My point was that the US should support democracy in South America. If a populist leftist wings a fair election, which is what happened, they should praise this. Then when human rights are violated then the US has a believeble point and maybe the people will elect a new leader. When the US starts to plot an assassination, a coup and a rebellion, in favor of a right wing dictator then democracy will never happen and innocent people will die.

Now Chavez is just copying the US. Stupid rhetoric, support for rebellion movements, etc.

These people are going to have a bad influence on Morales. I guess for a country like Bolivia he is almost quie acceptable, a representative of the population. But I guess they will need a new Morales the next election with the current one being too much corrupted by power.

[gruffalo]

i mean, we cant just leave Iraq now. we started something, we have to finish it or else that will cause even more damage than we already have - Gruf

It's time to cut losses (on both sides) and get out of Iraq. It ain't gonna get no better!

While we're at it, let's pull the rest of our forces home from other countries to protect our homeland (and its borders) - that’s what our taxes are suppose to be used for.

John

I was watching this program, (was it farenheit 9/11?) where some American woman was talking about how proud she was of her son in the Army. she was well patriotic, flag carrying etc. Her son has to go to Iraq and she's all worried but proud. tragically, her son dies and she starts campaigning and crap. what the hell did she expect? a soldier has a job to do. too many people get the idea that you can just join the Army and expect not to die. i feel sorry for her, but she's gotta accept it that her son was a soldier, and soldiers have a job where they have a high risk chance of dieing.

It's not about whether we can make the situation better or not, but we made promises (mainly lies) about going into Iraq, and it would almost completley destroy our already torn up image of democracy in the eyes of the Muslim world. We will look like even worse muppets if we just leave Iraq in the mess that we created. Im not quite sure how yet, but im sure there is some sort of solution to this problem. On the topic of Iraq i would like to comment on how brave these Iraqis are aswell. Almost everyday when i read the paper i see "Iraqis killed when suicide bomber detonated explosives in an Iraqi police recruitment office". One can argue that an average Iraqi needs a job, so might just be signing up for the money, but still they keep enrolling and i think someone in the press needs to point this out. its pretty amazing.

[johnny-boy]

It's not about whether we can make the situation better or not, but we made promises (mainly lies) about going into Iraq, and it would almost completley destroy our already torn up image of democracy in the eyes of the Muslim world. We will look like even worse muppets if we just leave Iraq in the mess that we created - Gruf

Best thing for the U.S. to do is to apologize for the grave mistakes that were made (of course they weren't mistakes, but you can't expect Bush to be perfectly honest) and get the h*** out of there.

“Ya gotta know when to fold”

John

[prometheus]

Would you put him on trial for war of aggression, called the 'the suprime crime by Justice Robert H. Jackson at the Nuremberg trial?


    * The power of sovereign states to make war, except in self defense, should be restricted by law. ("It is high time that we act on the juridical principle that aggressive war-making is illegal and criminal")

    * This law must apply equally to all nations. ("I am not willing to charge as a crime against a German official acts which would not be crimes if committed by officials of the United States")

    * Nations can act only through their leaders and thus the individuals responsible for initiation of an aggressive war are accountable for acts of violence against others committed in the name of the state. ("The guilt we should reach is not that of numberless little people, but of those who planned and whipped up the war.")

[gruffalo]

It's not about whether we can make the situation better or not, but we made promises (mainly lies) about going into Iraq, and it would almost completley destroy our already torn up image of democracy in the eyes of the Muslim world. We will look like even worse muppets if we just leave Iraq in the mess that we created - Gruf

Best thing for the U.S. to do is to apologize for the grave mistakes that were made (of course they weren't mistakes, but you can't expect Bush to be perfectly honest) and get the h*** out of there.

“Ya gotta know when to fold”

John

that would be even worse. sorry and goodbye, that would just be crazy. democracy could work in Iraq. whether it would create stability or not, i dont know, but they are going to have to at least get a working government and police force before they leave.

[johnny-boy]

Gruf,

I guess there's nothing wrong with dreaming, except for the fact that many more people are going to die trying to fulfill the impossible dream.

Prometheus,

I think Bush along with many other World leaders is going to have to face his Maker someday, and it ain't going to be a joyful occasion.

John

[gruffalo]

Gruf,

I guess there's nothing wrong with dreaming, except for the fact that many more people are going to die trying to fulfill the impossible dream.

Prometheus,

I think Bush along with many other World leaders is going to have to face his Maker someday, and it ain't going to be a joyful occasion.

John

I know it is like a dream, and i am also aware of the huge amount of deaths and casualties going on, but we have to stick with principles because of the growing threat of extremism. if we leave Iraq, then we are basically telling the Muslim extremists what they want to hear, that the Westerners just come into other countries, destroy them and then leave. they already claim the part about the invading of other countries, but for them it will be like putting the iceing on the cake. Not only will it provoke and give more excuses for the extremists, but im sure that more ordinary muslims will become infuriated and possibly start supporting the extremists, and then increasing the amount of largescale terrorist threats.

[johnny-boy]

We could go on and on with this to no avail.

For some reason I'm thinking of Vegas. It's like losing big time on the crap table, but still placing bets thinking your luck will change - then finding out it only got worse.

John

[gruffalo]

ok, i agree with them needing to get out, but i just think they need to do what they can to establish a government and train a decent sized police force, and then leave. my reason being that of the problem with muslim extremists mentioned before.

[rimv2]

why do you guys think that everyone is only anti-american and that everyone hates America. rim, i get that kinda crap from Americans all the time. it goes both ways. dont think you are the only ones who get insulted.

Ah know

and


Seem like yous the only one who noticed mah incredibly large post

respect

But you missed what ah was sayin.

Hell, Ah missed what ah was sayin





Ahm not saying the world is only after Americans.

Ahm saying that this criticism of us as well as others is the result of ignorance.


By ignorance ah dont mean they're special.


Ah simply mean no one has given them a perspective from which they can understand.

Ah dont criticize the non-Iraq related incidents that happen in the middle east. Or any other conflicts. Cept genocide (it's usually one sided).

Ah hate that things like this happen but ah also understand that conflict is human.



It doesnt matter who threw the first stone or shell.

also

Just because ahm american, doesnt (and ah say this without any animosity) mean that every argument ah make is in defense of America.

If Ah use mah country in an example tis merely because it is the most familiar to me.

I was watching this program, (was it farenheit 9/11?) where some American woman was talking about how proud she was of her son in the Army. she was well patriotic, flag carrying etc. Her son has to go to Iraq and she's all worried but proud. tragically, her son dies and she starts campaigning and crap. what the hell did she expect? a soldier has a job to do. too many people get the idea that you can just join the Army and expect not to die. i feel sorry for her, but she's gotta accept it that her son was a soldier, and soldiers have a job where they have a high risk chance of dieing.

It's not about whether we can make the situation better or not, but we made promises (mainly lies) about going into Iraq, and it would almost completley destroy our already torn up image of democracy in the eyes of the Muslim world. We will look like even worse muppets if we just leave Iraq in the mess that we created. Im not quite sure how yet, but im sure there is some sort of solution to this problem. On the topic of Iraq i would like to comment on how brave these Iraqis are aswell. Almost everyday when i read the paper i see "Iraqis killed when suicide bomber detonated explosives in an Iraqi police recruitment office". One can argue that an average Iraqi needs a job, so might just be signing up for the money, but still they keep enrolling and i think someone in the press needs to point this out. its pretty amazing.

The press . Sometimes ah believe the world would be better off without the press.

Ah saw on CNN last night a plug for an upcoming story.

The title made polygamy seem like some sort of plague slowly infecting America. Ironically the plug was made right after a story on bird flu.

ok, i agree with them needing to get out, but i just think they need to do what they can to establish a government and train a decent sized police force, and then leave. my reason being that of the problem with muslim extremists mentioned before.

We'll never leave.

If Saddam were  overthrown by the Iraqi people themselves, then ah believe the country would be more stable.

Ah will make a loose comparison to an old dog thats suddenly taken off its leash. It's free. It doesnt know how to be free. It waits for a new leash to be put on.

Not saying people are dogs.

HEY

Ah just realized ahm trying to explain something to people who obviously arent going to listen. More than likely the next post will be something about Fiddel Castro or Hitler. Then a few posts later someone will have responded to my post, only they would have clearly only read a few lines then re posted with assumptions about a post they never entirely read or if they did read they completely missed the entire point.

Then Ill respond with a 

and the cycle of these topics continues

so

here we go






Eat a human save a cow

[cfortunato]

Face it - under the current administration, America's foreign policy consists almost entirely of insulting any country that doesn't do exactly what we tell them to do 100% of the time.  The world is sick of us, because we behave like a bully.  All the time.

When you rename "French Fries" "Freedom Fries" because the French commit the crime of telling you the truth, people  think you are an a-hole.

We verbally abuse Canada, Mexico, France, Russia, Spain, and god-knows-who-else, and then wonder why they don't like us.

They don't like us because we have become damned, damned unlikable.

[lisztisforkids]

Yes... I do not understand how this thread when it orginally started, went to if Stalin could have defeated Hitler, American presence in ww2, Communism, Socialism, Vietnam, other American conflicts, Terroism, and Iran.

I cant wait for the Polygamist arguments!

[lisztisforkids]

They don't like us because we have become damned, damned unlikable.

Actually I have heard that George Bush is quite a friendly guy. Go to a barbecue with him and you feel like best freinds. 

[cfortunato]

Actually I have heard that George Bush is quite a friendly guy. Go to a barbecue with him and you feel like best freinds. 

Well, then, let's get him out of the White House so we can have a barbecue with him. 

[prometheus]

lisztisforkids, you are probably right. And that is the problem. All worse leaders are friendly, likable and charismatic.


You need to elect a person that isn't, always.

[gruffalo]

Yes... I do not understand how this thread when it orginally started, went to if Stalin could have defeated Hitler, American presence in ww2, Communism, Socialism, Vietnam, other American conflicts, Terroism, and Iran.

I cant wait for the Polygamist arguments!

why do people always complain about change in subject? ok, i respect that you made the thread, but its always interesting to sidetrack into other areas of debate.

[lisztisforkids]

why do people always complain about change in subject? ok, i respect that you made the thread, but its always interesting to sidetrack into other areas of debate.

Oh.. Im not complaining at all. I thought this thread was very interesting.

[rimv2]

Oh.. Im not complaining at all. I thought this thread was very interesting.

Interesting and a tad schizophrenic as well

[rimv2]

Face it - under the current administration, America's foreign policy consists almost entirely of insulting any country that doesn't do exactly what we tell them to do 100% of the time.  The world is sick of us, because we behave like a bully.  All the time.

When you rename "French Fries" "Freedom Fries" because the French commit the crime of telling you the truth, people  think you are an a-hole.

We verbally abuse Canada, Mexico, France, Russia, Spain, and god-knows-who-else, and then wonder why they don't like us.

They don't like us because we have become damned, damned unlikable.

Ah always just called them fries

AHAHHAAH SEE ABOVE

lisztisforkids, you are probably right. And that is the problem. All worse leaders are friendly, likable and charismatic.

You need to elect a person that isn't, always.

This jerk won a shady election

Probably not the first

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH see above

[lilypiano]

I saw George senior and Bill Clinton speak at my school's graduation today.  Bill Clinton was very charismatic.

[jas]

When you rename "French Fries" "Freedom Fries" because the French commit the crime of telling you the truth, people  think you are an a-hole.

Did he really? I'd like to think you're kidding, but since "freedom" is one of GWB's buzzwords it somehow doesn't sound as unlikely as it should...

Jas

[musik_man]

Did he really? I'd like to think you're kidding, but since "freedom" is one of GWB's buzzwords it somehow doesn't sound as unlikely as it should...

Jas

Bush didn't do it.  A small number of restaurants did it.  And the Congressional Cafeteria also did it.

[prometheus]

Why the French? Didn't they help the US in their war of independence? Did they tear down the Statue of Liberty? Did anyone even consider that? Were there protests against it?

[rimv2]

Why the French? Didn't they help the US in their war of independence? Did they tear down the Statue of Liberty? Did anyone even consider that? Were there protests against it?

 

No protest was needed.

Most thought the idea was stupid.

Which is why we still call them french fries.

PS- the French helped in that war that took place a couple of hundred years ago because it benefited them. The UN is BS. Most countries will do what they want when it benefits them, regardless of UN opinion.

Face it - under the current administration, America's foreign policy consists almost entirely of insulting any country that doesn't do exactly what we tell them to do 100% of the time.

The current administration is filled with people who are good  at winning debates. The problem is that anyone can win a debate. These people can feed this country sh!t, tell them it's chocolat, and the morons will believe it.

The world is sick of us, because we behave like a bully. All the time.

If you believe this, you are one of the stupid people who fall for the crap the administration feeds them. I'd probably be able to make you believe this; given ample time. If we are bullies then every other country in the UN are our cronies who do nothing but laugh.

When you rename "French Fries" "Freedom Fries" because the French commit the crime of telling you the truth, people think you are an a-hole.

It was a weird suggestions made by - who would have thought- assholes. It's pety and anyone who does call them freedom fries should be shot (seriously). Who the heck wants to pronounce an extra syllable anyway.

We verbally abuse Canada, Mexico, France, Russia, Spain, and god-knows-who-else, and then wonder why they don't like us.

Every country makes fun of other countries. Every country stereotypes other countries. We are not unique in this activity. Sorry

They don't like us because we have become damned, damned unlikable.

This is what's known as low self-esteem. A social idea is implemented. If the idea is not followed one is ostracized, humiliated or abused until one conforms. If one cannnot meet the standards entirely, one forms an archetype of the standard in one's head and harshly judges one's self against it. @_@ or whatever

You have been beaten into submission by the world my friend.

But I still love ya

We aint perfect. No one is. We just need to stop letting important decision that affect our livelyhood be made by people with IQ's substantially lower than ours. Then everything would be peachy.

Remember when election were one by the person who was actually more qualified?

Neither do I