Number 13

[zheer]

Is number 13 an unlucky number, if yes haw has it been unlucky for you.

[stevie]

haw naw brawn caw 

[prometheus]

Now can a number be unlucky?

[zheer]

Now can a number be unlucky?

   Possibly, yesterday was a very unlucky day for me.

[prometheus]

So what has that got to do with a number?


I mean, the meaning of a number is quite clear; 13 is bigger than 12 and smaller dan 14. But I wasn't aware of the fact that numbers have more properties than only their value.

So you mean you would not have had an unlucky day if yesterday would have been called 12?

Also, when yesterday was an unlucky day for you, you are just one person. This doesn't say anything about the day itself. Maybe a lot of favorable things happened to other people. Any number you give to a day, there are so many people that there will always be unlucky things happening to some person. So then each day will be unlucky? Or are unlucky numbers only personal?


Also, yesterday had many numbers; the 103th day of the year 2006, the 19th saturday of 2006, the second saturday of the 5th month, the 336th day after my last birthday, (substitute with your birthday,) etc. You have all kinds of other numbers, days since the last full moon, it is full moon here now, day since the last equinox.

So really, I do not see the relationship between a day, which may be unlucky or not, and the number that has been given to it. And if there is one, which number should be considered since each day can be, and maybe even has been, given an almost infinite amount of different numbers.

Also, I don't see how numbers have other properties than their conventional values. Maybe I am ignorant about this but I did not realise numbers also have values of luck. So maybe you could give me a list or explain how the system works. I would be interested to know how lucky or unlucky the number 19 is, for example. Also the number 128. I don't know how to figure out its luck value.

[Bob]

I think those superstitions can have a real impact when many people believe them or still change their behavior based on them.  In that way, they become real.

I think it's possible other things are behind supersitions.  Real things that happen and have an effect, but people have put a story along with it to make it make more sense to them.

13 isn't a nice symmetical number, so it's going to get stamped with being unlucky or lucky.  Same with 11.  Then there are numbers like 3 or 9 that are special too.  Those will be very good or bad.

I don't really buy any of it.  With the calendar, you will always have a 13 day of the month and someone (lots of someones) will have negative things happen to them on that day.

Still, it's fun to think about, like a ghost story.   BooooOOOooooo....

[prometheus]

Seven is an uneven number as well.

The whole 13 thing probably started with the Knights Templar being persecuted on Friday, October 13, 1307, by the king of France, who was after their wealth since the templar were rumered to be very rich, and with help of the pope.

[gilad]

Seven is an uneven number as well.

The whole 13 thing probably started with the Knights Templar being persecuted on Friday, October 13, 1307, by the king of France, who was after their wealth since the templar were rumered to be very rich, and with help of the pope.

yes thats what i thought.
people believe the daftest things.

on second thought my brother and his friend found themselves in a holding cell in hillbrow(earths equivalent of hell as far as i know it) police station last night. people get raped in there, the cops also beat him(his friend) senseless, i'm sure he was out of line, but there are ways to treat people.
here is a nice picture of probably a normal day in hillbrow, the place should be fenced off, it's home to so many criminals.
the gentleman with the gun was robbed by the man on his knees, he chased him and cornered him off in the alley, no one was killed, though the man with the gun said he nearly pulled the trigger.
https://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0102/images/thspn101.jpg
anyway, this is where my brother and his friend found themselves lastnight, in a holding cell with guys that makes 50cent look like the tooth fairy's pregnant dog.

[prometheus]

Even in countries with a low crime rate cops can be scum but with the law behind them. Last week a few cops started to beat up random people because they suspected things may go out of hand. Random people were thrown into a police van, etc.

The crowd control units are always filled with cops that like to beat up people. Since being a cop is a lowly job it gets more and more misfits rather than people who feel this is their calling, or something.

[gilad]

Even in countries with a low crime rate cops can be scum but with the law behind them. Last week a few cops started to beat up random people because they suspected things may go out of hand. Random people were thrown into a police van, etc.

The crowd control units are always filled with cops that like to beat up people. Since being a cop is a lowly job it gets more and more misfits rather than people who feel this is their calling, or something.

100% you're right. over here cops have been renting their service pistols out for R200 or $40 a day. good officers of the law.
without a police forve their would certainly be more criminals, the police officers themselves.
haha, if you write b1tch it gets chaged to pregnant dog. the tooth fairies b1tch.

[zheer]

The whole 13 thing probably started with the Knights Templar being persecuted on Friday, October 13, 1307, by the king of France, who was after their wealth since the templar were rumered to be very rich, and with help of the pope.

   Oooooooooooo, did'nt know that.

     

[thalbergmad]

The whole 13 thing probably started with the Knights Templar being persecuted on Friday, October 13, 1307, by the king of France, who was after their wealth since the templar were rumered to be very rich, and with help of the pope.

Yeh, I read that too.

Interesting bunch the Templars.

 

[prometheus]

Yes, going from poor escorters of pilgrims riding with 'two on one horse', to 'holy warriors' that have been given a 'licence to murder muslims(, jews and eastern christians, what's the difference?)' by the pope and that made sure the crusaders did not lose all battles, and then to the bankers of the European wold, growing extremely rich. And then the whole order disappeared in one day.

Yes, pretty strange how they changed through time.

[thalbergmad]

How about the excavation under the Temple Mount, the discovery of the Arc of the Covenant, the discovery of "secret geometry" and the building of Chatres Cathedral.

I really must improve my reading material.

[nanabush]

If anyone knows the game "13 dead end drive" the board game, with all the traps and stuff... I always lose in that game, if that counts as '13' being unlucky... 

[prometheus]

That's where pure history stops and 'serious' myth starts.

When the king of France persecuted them he tortured them to have them admit to all kinds of sins so he could burn them at the stake. Some people admitted to being devilworshippers. Speculation about the nature of the Templar religion started. The ideas go from them being gnostic christians to incorperating the  worshipping an ofshoot of the greek goddess of wisdom, Sophia, worshipping of Mary Magdalena. Then artifacts come into the picture. A story often heard is that they worshipped a head. It is rumored to be the head of John the Baptist, the head of Mary Magdalena or the head of some kind of beast.

Also they had close relationships with the muslims when there wasn't any war. This is not that strange.
During the crusades there were many unlikely alliances. For example in 1108 inbetween the first and second crusade and near Tel Bashir Tancred of Antioch with cavalry of Radwan of Allepo faced Jawali of Mosul and Baldin II who was just released from imprisonment by Jawali and wanted his city, Edessa, back from Tancred. The Muslims had kind of a laugh at the crazy behavior of Tancred and Baldwin up to this battle. Luckely for Tancred this battle wasn't that important. Otherwise he wouldn't really look chivalrous in the history books.

The Templar didn't exist back then but one can only imagine how the people became more intergrated during the next six crusades. It is even rumored that the Templar brought the game of chess to Europe. It is rumored that they were kind emmisarries, creating connections between christians and muslims. So yes, many myths about the Templar indeed. The myth even goes as far to postulate that the Templar had good relations with the infamous Hashshashin.

So anyway. It is also rumored that the Templar became muslims and that the head was the head of Muhammed.

In all these stories it isn't all clear if this head is a real one of a statue of some kind. Well, at least it wasn't to me when I read about these heads.


As for the rumor that they found something under the the temple their were famously named for. Yes, the stories also exist. Of course the one about the holy grail is very famous, whatever the grail is. But even the Knights Templar excavating is a myth. It may be true but we just don't know. In the end it is unlikely. Even what they found differs in the many stories. Documents, ancient religious codexes, treasure, artifacts ranging from the holy cross, the arc of the covenant, the list goes on.

Only one think can be true, is there is even some truth in all this. So this means that the rest has been made up by people for their enjoyment. I have seen you mention the Da Vinci Code book several times. I am sure you are aware that the book was based on another book called "Holy Grail, Holy Blood' and this book was based on a hoax made up by Pierre Plantard consisting out of the Priory of Sion, which is thus totally fictional and with Da Vinci as an alledged member.

[thalbergmad]

I am sure you are aware that the book was based on another book called "Holy Grail, Holy Blood' and this book was based on a hoax made up by Pierre Plantard consisting out of the Priory of Sion, which is thus totally fictional and with Da Vinci as an alledged member.

I have read "Holy Grail, Holy Blood" and had read that the Priory was a hoax.

I did not know the whole story of Sauniere and Renee le Chateau was a hoax though.

Good story even if it is incorrect.

The recent court case seems to have been a benefit to all authors.

Thal

[prometheus]

Ive read neither

[mycrabface]

The number 4 is another unlucky number, believed by the superstitious. This impact is so great that many hotels in asia do not have a room number which has a 4 in it.. So they're named according to odd numbers, eg. 301, 303, 305, 307, 309, 401, 403, 405 etc.. 

[pianistimo]

why do we focus on the things that are 'unknown' to us?  why not take the numbers that mean something and make something of them.  three, seven, twelve.  they seem musical when you think about it.  a third makes up a triad.  seven notes of the scale.  twelve half notes.  God is the author of peace and perfection.  why go for confusion and go for all the witchcraft, superstition, and guessing (fortunes).  with God, you don't have to guess.

suppose that if there is any sort of hidden message with 13 - october of this year has a friday 13.  but, when you look at God's purpose throughout history - it has always foiled satan no matter what day it is.  God made time.  why would he care what day it was - it is always a day to do God's business.

[thalbergmad]

God made time. 

I am sure somebody will come up with a nice 9,000 page post to dispute this.

Thal

[prometheus]

We don't have to. The statement itself is meaningless and empty. It does not even require refutation.

[pianolearner]

why do we focus on the things that are 'unknown' to us? 

This is a quintessential example of irony.

[pianistimo]

not if you know God.  (He expresses Himself through His Word).