Most difficult Debussy piece?

[gymnopedist]

Since we're doing the same thing with Liszt and Chopin...

[pianowelsh]

possibly I'isle joyeuses! if we are talking extended piece.

[thorn]

I have five suggestions; Jardins sous la Pluie from Estampes
                                       Mouvement from Images I
                                       Feux d'artifice from Preludes II
                                       Toccata from Pour le Piano
                                       Masques (much trickier than Isle Joyeuse)
 

[soliloquy]

Masques is insanely easy.  It's a student piece.


Short Piece: Feux d'Artifice from Preludes Book II
Long Piece: Images II

[verywellmister]

Really? Feux d'artifice didn't seem that hard when I sightread it, and I found it to be easier than the Ravel Sonatine.  And I'm not very good either.

So my conclusion is that that it sounds harder than it really is.

Anyway, Poisson d'or (Images II) gets quite nasty.

[thracozaag]

Etudes:
Pour les (cinq doits) d'apres Monsieur Czerny
Pour les quartes
Pour les accords

koji

[kriskicksass]

My teacher said that "What the West Wind Saw" is harder than "Fireworks" (which is why he assigned me the latter and not the former), so I'd say that for a short piece. I'm not familiar enough with his longer pieces to make a judgement there.

[maxy]

Etudes:
Pour les (cinq doits) d'apres Monsieur Czerny
Pour les quartes
Pour les accords

koji

thanks!

[lisztisforkids]

Feux d artifice

[lisztisforkids]

I think Feuz d artifice cuz it requires so much of pedal and dynamic control on top of the technical aspects. Quite a mean piece...

[gruffalo]

Etudes:
Pour les (cinq doits) d'apres Monsieur Czerny
koji

agreed. i learned that one, but it was a beast.

Whoever said it, Jardin sous la pluie is not as difficult as it seems.

[gymnopedist]

Has anyone here played the Images Oubliées? The second one sounds quite nasty, and i'm wondering how hard it is...

[thorn]

Ce qu'a vu le vent d'Ouest is not as hard as Feux d'artifice... I found it fairly easy to learn...

I haven't tried any of the Etudes mentioned, but Pour les Accords sounds pretty horrendous (to play, not saying it's an awful piece )

The Images Oubliées are fairly easy to be honest. The second one of these is pretty much the same level as the Sarabande from Pour le Piano (its later version) which is just above grade 8 standard.

[gymnopedist]

Ce qu'a vu le vent d'Ouest is not as hard as Feux d'artifice... I found it fairly easy to learn...

I haven't tried any of the Etudes mentioned, but Pour les Accords sounds pretty horrendous (to play, not saying it's an awful piece )

The Images Oubliées are fairly easy to be honest. The second one of these is pretty much the same level as the Sarabande from Pour le Piano (its later version) which is just above grade 8 standard.

Oops, i actually meant the third one.. But thanks anyway!

[pianowelsh]

Granted the toccata is difficult but the others you mentioned thorn arent actually so bad. Dont be fooled by feux d' artifice mindue for those who are quick to write it off. It is a much more subtle prelude than either of the obviously taxing wind preludes and actually requires more sophisticated virtuosity. but actually I stand by my decision on L isle joyeuses its compound difficulties and quirky musical narrative are surely far more taxing than even any of his etudes - though granted they are hard.  I presume of course we are talking about the standard solo piano literature and not looking into the transcriptions of his orchestral works ie la mer and l' apre midi etc which are VERY difficult to bring off.. Infact I havent yet found a suitable recording of these works.  I have to say that I think it is possible that those who are mentioning the wind preludes etc are perhaps missing something of Debussy.  He was not a composer who tried to impress with virtuosity - ever. He was far to big in his own mind for tricks like that. Everything with him was touch and expression, colours and suggestions and it is this not really the notes which makes his music so hard. He wasnt afraid of simplicity and naivety in his music. The rare occurances when his music does really take on a virtuosic turn are few and far between and when he does it is for a bigger reason.

[thorn]

Granted the toccata is difficult but the others you mentioned thorn arent actually so bad. Dont be fooled by feux d' artifice mindue for those who are quick to write it off. It is a much more subtle prelude than either of the obviously taxing wind preludes and actually requires more sophisticated virtuosity. but actually I stand by my decision on L isle joyeuses its compound difficulties and quirky musical narrative are surely far more taxing than even any of his etudes - though granted they are hard.  I presume of course we are talking about the standard solo piano literature and not looking into the transcriptions of his orchestral works ie la mer and l' apre midi etc which are VERY difficult to bring off.. Infact I havent yet found a suitable recording of these works.  I have to say that I think it is possible that those who are mentioning the wind preludes etc are perhaps missing something of Debussy.  He was not a composer who tried to impress with virtuosity - ever. He was far to big in his own mind for tricks like that. Everything with him was touch and expression, colours and suggestions and it is this not really the notes which makes his music so hard. He wasnt afraid of simplicity and naivety in his music. The rare occurances when his music does really take on a virtuosic turn are few and far between and when he does it is for a bigger reason.

That's what I meant by Feux d'artifice being the more difficult of the two preludes- because it's more subtle.  As for the wind preludes, i dont really think Vent dans la Pleine is that bad- and even with Ce qu'a vu le vent d'Ouest, approaching it as a virtuosic piece would destroy it if that turns it into a competition of who can play loudest and fastest.

As for L'isle Joyeuse, it is a pretty difficult piece, but easier to pull off than Feux d'artifice; I've heard a lot more unsatisfying Feux d'artifices than Isle Joyeuses.

The orchestral transcriptions are pretty difficult- I have a transcription of the Sirenes from Nocturnes that I did myself because i wanted to play it so much, and even though i did it myself, i still hardly touch it.

[dancingfingers]

While we're talking about difficult Debussy, I might as well ask how the first set of Images ranks (I'm thinking of starting it). My impressions from reading through the pieces are that "Reflets" is relatively pianistic but still difficult, "Hommage" is technically not bad but musically hard to pull off, and that "Mouvement" is very challenging all around! Any thoughts from somebody who's played them?

[thorn]

on a scale of 1 to 10, debussy images are around 8

Reflets dans l'eau is difficult to pull off- to get the chords to "reflect" and not sound clumpy, and to get the runs to sound like a veil of sound rather than Lisztian show off-ish

Hommage a Rameau is the "easiest", although the middle section is hard to sight read... you have to know the chords inside out.

Mouvement is technically the most difficult- hand alternating all over the place and tricky fingerings

[verywellmister]

...and how do the Images II compare?

[gymnopedist]

...and the third of the Images oubliées?