Music and IQ

[russ]

Hey y'all.

I'm doing a science experiment to see whether there is a relationship between a person's IQ and their ability to remember musical notes.

What I actually need help with is the crapping on bit (which im generally not bad at... oh well). Just the background information, like generally about a persons IQ, and the importance of being able to repeat 'mechanical tasks', such as playing a piece without music in front of them. Particularly the significance of that (memorising).

I would love you all if you could just fire away with anything to do with IQ tests or remembering music, etc. (he doesnt do music... so anything will be fine  )

Thanks a heap,
Russ.

[pianistimo]

well, last night 'rain man' was on again on tv.  i think the original guy whom they patterned the movie after (kim) and he was asked to listen to and give an analysis of beethoven's fifth.  right away he said something like - oh, that's morse code for V =5  that would mean victory and that would mean winston churchill.  his mind races and he doesn't hesitate to say immediately the correct information.

that is how you can tell genius and blunder.  they give you the correct info in a matter of seconds.  the info is stored, retrieved correctly, and spoken. 

all this is because he is missing his corpus collosum  www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/savant/kimpeek.cfm   anyway - you could be a savant, too, if they took yours out possibly.  *would you like to experiment?

now - there is another element.  that is photographic memory - which he is also said to have.

i wonder if with geniuses that they are able to see more cross connections between fields of study.  they don't see music as soley music.  maybe some mathematics and philosophy.  it is a part of a whole.  i think they said this on the pbs show.

do you think the mistake we make is thinking ONLY about the notes at first.  maybe if we just gave up trying to think in a certain set way - we'd see more possibilities around us.  when i sightread, i do try to put intensity and dynamics and emotion in - but what i mean is to be able to do what people with high iq do - must be more.  i think it is an ability to put the music on as if it were a piece of clothing the first time.  wear it around.  remember how it felt.  bask in it.

surprisingly, kim also could easily imagine the feelings of the composer at the time of the writing of particular pieces (because he was familiar with the history of the time).  to empathize witha  composer is a rare ability. 

and, to see patterns that might be important to a particular composer.  to bring them out.  to bring out particular harmonies (voices) that the composer was fond of.

[soliloquy]

Well we could just have all of the pianists/composers here take the test at www.highiqsociety.com or the MENSA qualifier at www.mensa.com and post their results and see if they're above average.  Obviously you would have to assume people are being truthful though =P

[pianistimo]

i'm not so concerned, personally, with iq tests.  i know that i am intuitive.  i can figure unique ways to find an answer - so if i am in a group of 'completely rational' people - they look to me for a creative solution instead of the one they tried five timesa dn still couldn't get the answer.  people like me are untestable.  but, i did pass the cbest test - and there were some good math questions in that one.  i studied the PSAT and MSAT books for a few months.  i don't think people are smart with testing alone.

put them on a deserted island and see how they survive.  you can be really smart and not very pragmatic.  what i mean is that they are very careful to know they have the right answer and will search for it longer.  the more impulsive around, like me, would simply try this and that before proving it works.  thus coming to a conclusion faster.  it does wear one out, though.

on the other hand,  people that are never wrong are hard to fight with. 

[emmdoubleew]

pianistimo: "I'm smart, you just can't tell."
me: "Whatever."

"well, last night 'rain man' was on again on tv.  i think the original guy whom they patterned the movie after (kim) and he was asked to listen to and give an analysis of beethoven's fifth.  right away he said something like - oh, that's morse code for V =5  that would mean victory and that would mean winston churchill.  his mind races and he doesn't hesitate to say immediately the correct information."

Beethoven year of death: March 26, 1827
Invention of morse code: mid-1830s,
Birth of Winston Churchill: 30 November 1874
FAIL level: 15/10

[pianistimo]

that's where you and i fail to grasp the infinite coming together of the cosmos.  you have to admit that making connections as we do puts us into little boxes.  'it has to be within a certain time frame.'

this guy can read one page with one eye and another page with the other (explaining why his eyes look a little funny today).  how many people can do that?  or, even ever thought of trying.

[Tash]

IQ tests are dumb. i did one back when i was 9, they told me i resulted with the IQ of a 13yr old. then i did another one, and was back at the average 9yr old level. my excuse to my parents was that apparently the second time round the test was boring so i didn't try very hard. second thing, if you follow Piaget's theory, intelligence is not set at birth. then there's something in cognitive psychology about chess players and remembering moves. who was that- de groot or someone.
memorising music, depends on your attitude towards it and how you go about memorising. hmmm, gotta go sing in a concert now...

[emmdoubleew]

that's where you and i fail to grasp the infinite coming together of the cosmos.

There is no coming together of the cosmos, unless you're tripping on acid.

you have to admit that making connections as we do puts us into little boxes.  'it has to be within a certain time frame.'

Yeah, it puts us in a box labeled "Not completely retarded."

this guy can read one page with one eye and another page with the other (explaining why his eyes look a little funny today).  how many people can do that?  or, even ever thought of trying.

I don't know who you're talking about exactly. But right now hes lookin a lot like a hoax.

[soliloquy]

Oh MUU, you just not thinking outside the box ^^

There are always people that can do crazy sh*t like that.  I watched some dude on TV put together 15 letter words from random, jumbled-up letters instantly.  Words like floccinaucinihilipilification, disproportionableness, incomprehensibilities and uncharacteristically.  Capote could memorize an entire newspaper after only reading it once.  There was also a guy who was shown 760 playing cards one at a time and then recited the order they were shown.  There is a boy who can read 500 pages per hour.  There is also someone who has Pi memorized to the 10,000th decimal place.


Anyways, back on the actual subject?

[emmdoubleew]

Well we could just have all of the pianists/composers here take the test at www.highiqsociety.com or the MENSA qualifier at www.mensa.com and post their results and see if they're above average.  Obviously you would have to assume people are being truthful though =P

[soliloquy]

"Your score was 28 out of 30. That is an excellent score, you would have a very strong chance of passing the Mensa test and joining Mensa.

Please note that the Mensa Workout is NOT the official Mensa test, and your score will not qualify or disqualify you for membership."

[avetma]

 

[soliloquy]

There used to be a bitchingly tough test on highiqsociety.com called the "Test for Exceptional Intelligence".  I got like, 11 out of 25.  That test was INSANE.  We need to see if anyone here can break 50% XP

[emmdoubleew]

"Your score was 28 out of 30. That is an excellent score, you would have a very strong chance of passing the Mensa test and joining Mensa.

Please note that the Mensa Workout is NOT the official Mensa test, and your score will not qualify or disqualify you for membership."

That's pretty good soliloquy (assuming you are honest). 

[thalbergmad]

https://www.highiqsociety.org/iq_tests/testresults_fail.php

[pianistimo]

what if someone guessed on a few answers and still got 160?

i just got 99.  guess at least i'm not at the bottom.  average is what they say.  who wants to believe they're average?  bring me one of those MENSA people and i'll find a way to stump them.

[prometheus]

I just woke up and filled it in rather fast. I got 124 which was a lot more than I excepted. Also because it is not in my native language though only one test seems to be weakened by that. Actually the knowledge test seemed to be biased towards Europe. I didn't know the Olympics for sure because I am too young. So I guess this result is still going to be rather high for what I am able to.

I did very well with the visual memory thing. I saw them all instantly. I guess I could score a IQ of 160 or 180 on that.

My mother claimed I scored 146 on an IQ test as a kid when they started to investigate what was wrong with me because other children bullied me....

But 124, I do have some questions about that test. Only Pianistimo scored 99. She shouldn't be that unhappy about that if the test is average. I remember scoring 110 on a test that claimed to be average and balanced.

So since 100 ought to be the average we should see a lot more near 100. Otherwise I will take it with a grain of salt.

I mean, three people already scored higher than me and I am already with the top five percent...

[prometheus]

About music and IQ and about music and mental ability.

I can say that when I started to listen to music I also became interested in developing my mental abilities and intelligence. So for me the two are very much tied, be it coincidence or not.

[da jake]

[jre58591]

hahaha thats the best result yet.

[pianistimo]

so are you joining the society?  how much does it cost.  if i were you , i'd just consider myself smart and not pay for it.

[emmdoubleew]

The test is unbalanced and gives you high scores so that you pay to join their society.
Also imo, the knowledge part is unfair, especially to young students like me.

[prometheus]

Their trivia is fun though.

[jre58591]

where is the link to mensa's test? their test may be a bit more accurate. i got a 121 on the first one.

[yuc4h]

hehe, I tried the IQ test and scored each answer wrong on purpose. Yet I got 93. Seems they don't like to make people sad or?

[thalbergmad]

hehe, I tried the IQ test and scored each answer wrong on purpose. Yet I got 93. Seems they don't like to make people sad or?

I tried my hardest to answer everything wrong and still got 82.

Next time i am going to let the time expire on each question.

[johnny-boy]

Photo Shop can make anyone look intelligent.
John

[da jake]

You photoshopped yours? Well, that's no fun. 

[johnny-boy]

You photoshopped yours? Well, that's no fun. 

How did you do yours da jake? I wonder how Soliloquy did his?

Best, John

[yuc4h]

Yea, thalberg, the timer must have something to do with it. I did not wait at all. I tried twice and I think I got all wrong, 93 both ;<

[da jake]

How did you do yours da jake?

I got 34/30 

[soliloquy]

How did you do yours da jake? I wonder how Soliloquy did his?

Best, John

By getting the questions right?  If I was gonna photoshop I would put 190 =P  I'd just turn my 6 upsidedown.

I have taken the tests there before though, so that might have given me an edge.

[pianolearner]

Hey y'all.

I'm doing a science experiment to see whether there is a relationship between a person's IQ and their ability to remember musical notes.

What I actually need help with is the crapping on bit (which im generally not bad at... oh well). Just the background information, like generally about a persons IQ, and the importance of being able to repeat 'mechanical tasks', such as playing a piece without music in front of them. Particularly the significance of that (memorising).

I would love you all if you could just fire away with anything to do with IQ tests or remembering music, etc. (he doesnt do music... so anything will be fine  )

Thanks a heap,
Russ.

I am a member of The International High IQ Society and British Mensa.  I don't think it makes me a better piano player. Only practice will do that.

P.S: I want to add that if you scored poorly in the IQ test on the IHIQS website, don't despair. I think it's a bad IQ test. Trivia tests knowledge not intelligence. They have broken what I consider to be one of the golden rule's for IQ tests- All the information required to answer a question MUST be contained within the question. That's why culture fair IQ tests are better.

[soliloquy]

Have you cracked 50% on the Test for Exceptional Intelligence pianolearner?

[pianolearner]

Have you cracked 50% on the Test for Exceptional Intelligence pianolearner?

No, I don't think I have exceptional intelligence.

[soliloquy]

That test is *** INSANE!!  You need like PhD's in Physics, Mathematics and Cryptology AND be a freakin actuary, not to mention like an IQ of 180+ to even do a dent in it!  That guy who got a 22 apparently spent 3 months on it researching all the questions.  That doesn't really seem fair to me =P


You post there much?  If so what is your screen name?

[pianolearner]

That test is *** INSANE!!  You need like PhD's in Physics, Mathematics and Cryptology AND be a freakin actuary, not to mention like an IQ of 180+ to even do a dent in it!  That guy who got a 22 apparently spent 3 months on it researching all the questions.  That doesn't really seem fair to me =P


You post there much?  If so what is your screen name?

I have just taken some screen shots. I want to study them 

I became a member on September 30th 2001 and posted there for a while under the name of 'popular_science'. I haven't logged on there much since then.  When I first joined it was called the New York high IQ society.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_High_IQ_Society

[soliloquy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giga_Society

I feel retarded now...



Oh well I know the pianist Fredrik Ullen was the president of the Prometheus Society, which requires 99.997th percentile for acceptance.  Does that help?

[kelly_kelly]

The highiqsociety.com test won't work on my computer.

[thalbergmad]

The highiqsociety.com test won't work on my computer.

Logging on to it is part of the test.

You have failed.

[alejo_90]

I won't post an image of my results because I didn't take that test, and if I would done it and posted my results, everybody would have thought I photoshopped the picture.

I remember that I took a real IQ test like a year ago, and it was way longer, like 30 questions every category, and they were like 4.
I got 186 on that test, and I'm not lying.

Best
Alex