In a more serious vein... finger strengthening

[barnowl]

My teacher has me crashing the scales and Hannon Exercises to build up the muscles in my fingers.

Can you recommend some physical exercises to supplement the dreaded Hannon drills?

[allchopin]

Well, while you're at it, try putting each of your fingers in a vice and stretching them apart, to build flexibility.  After you are loose, pull on them for extended periods of time to make them longer and more slender.  Your final excercise is to retire from the piano because you won't be able to play anymore 

I hope you realize me sarcasm here - do a search for finger strengthening and you should find something very interesting about the anatomy of the fingers.  But don't take my word for it...

[emmdoubleew]

What you're trying to do with scales and hanon is not "finger-strengthening" but rather learning the movements most efficient to do a fast scale or fast hanon.

Also, hanon is really not the best for this kind of work. I would work on the Czerny etudes instead,which get you used and trained in movements you actually encounter in music (they also train your phrasing)

note that half the people here are going to tell you never to work on czerny or scales or whatever, dont listen to them.

[gonzalo]

My teacher has me crashing the scales and Hannon Exercises to build up the muscles in my fingers.

THERE ARE NO MUSCLES IN THE FINGERS

[barnowl]

What you're trying to do with scales and hanon is not "finger-strengthening" but rather learning the movements most efficient to do a fast scale or fast hanon.

Also, hanon is really not the best for this kind of work. I would work on the Czerny etudes instead,which get you used and trained in movements you actually encounter in music (they also train your phrasing)

note that half the people here are going to tell you never to work on czerny or scales or whatever, dont listen to them.

Funny thing is I brought in Hanon and Czerny and my teach went with Hanon.

She is a strong believer in drills and especially SCALES, so I have to do them, because I'm a strong believer in doing what the teacher says to do.

In my adult life I've had two teachers and both insisted on scales. I have lots of time to practice, so what the heck. So, I'll do the drills, I'll do the scales. If they help, good. If they don't...well all this practice keeps me off the streets. 

[prometheus]

THERE ARE NO MUSCLES IN THE FINGERS

I love comments like this. Caps could have been off though.

[emmdoubleew]

Scales are excellent. Hanon is not.

[barnowl]

...do a search for finger strengthening and you should find something very interesting about the anatomy of the fingers.  But don't take my word for it...

I Googled. I found sites for for strenghtening the fingers of guitarists, mountain climbers and martial artists. Nothing applicable there. I also find a site on how to pinch, grasp and manipulate, but my wife complained I do enough of that already.

Nothing about the needs of piano players' fingers. And I didn't discover anything interesting about the anatomy of the fingers.

Then along came gonzalo, our resident anatomist who tells us: THERE ARE NO MUSCLES IN THE FINGERS

So, who needs Google when we have gonzolo?   

[gonzalo]

I Googled. I found sites for for strenghtening the fingers of guitarists, mountain climbers and martial artists. Nothing applicable there. I also find a site on how to pinch, grasp and manipulate, but my wife complained I do enough of that already.

Nothing about the needs of piano players' fingers. And I didn't discover anything interesting about the anatomy of the fingers.

Then along came gonzalo, our resident anatomist who tells us: THERE ARE NO MUSCLES IN THE FINGERS

So, who needs Google when we have gonzolo?   

Normally I would not bother with someone who does not care (there is little point). However, since already misinformed people are agreeing with you, I would like to point out this:

   THERE ARE NO MUSCLES IN THE FINGERS 


Therefore, you cannot build, develop or train finger strength.

You can develop forearm strength, you can develop upper arm strength, you can develop shoulder strength, you can develop core strength. All of which are important and have their place.

But you cannot develop something that does not exist in the first place.

Old teachers like von Bulow were simply ignorant of anatomy. So whatever instruction they may have left us must be carefully evaluated in view of their ignorance and our present knowledge. Simply you cannot take their words at face value.

In the meantime, get yourself a book of anatomy and be one step ahead of old ignorant masters. (Have a look here for a preview:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4145.msg38568.html#msg38568

And here

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,5034.msg47829.html


Sorry for stealing Bernhard's post , but I'm tired of people talking about finger strength.

[barnowl]

Normally I would not bother with someone who does not care (there is little point). However, since already misinformed people are agreeing with you, I would like to point out this:

  THERE ARE NO MUSCLES IN THE FINGERS 


Therefore, you cannot build, develop or train finger strength.

You can develop forearm strength, you can develop upper arm strength, you can develop shoulder strength, you can develop core strength. All of which are important and have their place.

But you cannot develop something that does not exist in the first place.

Old teachers like von Bulow were simply ignorant of anatomy. So whatever instruction they may have left us must be carefully evaluated in view of their ignorance and our present knowledge. Simply you cannot take their words at face value.

In the meantime, get yourself a book of anatomy and be one step ahead of old ignorant masters. (Have a look here for a preview:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4145.msg38568.html#msg38568

And here

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,5034.msg47829.html


Sorry for stealing Bernhard's post , but I'm tired of people talking about finger strength.

I searched the web for muscles of the fingers, and it looks like you're right, gonzolo. I bow to your superior knowledge of hand anatomy. No kidding.

[gonzalo]

I searched the web for muscles of the fingers, and it looks like you're right, gonzolo. I bow to your superior knowledge of hand anatomy. No kidding.

No problem. And it's Gonzalo ( not gonzolo )

[emmdoubleew]

That's why we have tendons.

[piazzo23]

My teacher has me crashing the scales and Hannon Exercises to build up the muscles in my fingers.

Can you recommend some physical exercises to supplement the dreaded Hannon drills?

I think he/she´s right. Hanon, forte and legato.

you need to gain strenght in your lumbricals and interosseous.

[barnowl]

Gonzalo...

I retract my retraction. Please see:

https://www.dartmouth.edu/~anatomy/wrist-hand/muscles/intrinsic3.html

We do indeed have finger muscles. Exercising them won't get me a Mr.
Universe title, but I know my teacher will be impressed.

Six months from now she'll look at my hands and pant, "Oooo BarnOwl,
you're so hot! Just look at those hyperdeveloped palmar interossei in
your proximal phalanges!"

[nomis]

Gonzalo...

I retract my retraction. Please see:

https://www.dartmouth.edu/~anatomy/wrist-hand/muscles/intrinsic3.html

We do indeed have finger muscles. Exercising them won't get me a Mr.
Universe title, but I know my teacher will be impressed.

Six months from now she'll look at my hands and pant, "Oooo BarnOwl,
you're so hot! Just look at those hyperdeveloped palmar interossei in
your proximal phalanges!"

To be anatomically correct, there are muscles in the fingers. However, generally speaking, most people regard the digits protruding out of the hand as fingers, rather than the whole length from finger to the wrist bones. The protruding digits DO NOT have muscles, as the muscles are in the hand. If you are playing everyday, there is no need to strengthen these muscles, unless you have alot of octave passages to play.

[maryruth]

What fingers do have is a "memory"....I think loud playing helps our fingers remember what to do.  I often do loud playing (and staccato sometimes, too) playing when practicing my repertoire pieces.   Honestly, I don't do much technique outside my pieces....I do sometimes do scales....

[barnowl]

What fingers do have is a "memory"....I think loud playing helps our fingers remember what to do.  I often do loud playing (and staccato sometimes, too) playing when practicing my repertoire pieces.   Honestly, I don't do much technique outside my pieces....I do sometimes do scales....

I do scales and drills. When I'm done, I feel like my fingers are stronger. E.g., if you were working on a trill, and on day one, you played it for as long as you could. If you continued to practice that same trill,  every other day for a week or two, I would guess you'd  would be able to play it longer, faster and louder  than you did at the start.

And to be sensinble, you wouldn't play the trill for as long as you could during the conditioning process. I wouldn't know what your exercise course would be, but I bet a teacher here could suggest a program.

(Now please don't read my questions here as being disputatious. I'm asking politley. Honest.)

But if you're "flexing" your fingers (so to speak. by slamming them into the keyboard), aren't you working the muscles in the forearms, thus developing those muscles? And when those muscles are strenthened, it's manifested in the finger speed and force of your finger action, right?

And, Maryruth, have you clicked on the link that shows the diagram of the muscles in the fingers. They're there - kinda puny, maybe, but better than nothing. 

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

I think that by finger streangth, one means finger dexterity and a more accurate control of sound.