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Poll

Do any of these pianists strike you as overrated?  Please choose 3...

Pollini
5 (4.2%)
Brendel
8 (6.7%)
Kissin
15 (12.6%)
Volodos
3 (2.5%)
Richter
3 (2.5%)
Cliburn
6 (5%)
Argerich
8 (6.7%)
Schiff
5 (4.2%)
Uchida
2 (1.7%)
Perahia
3 (2.5%)
Watts
2 (1.7%)
Hamelin
9 (7.6%)
Lang
24 (20.2%)
Horowitz
8 (6.7%)
Gilels
1 (0.8%)
Rachmaninoff
2 (1.7%)
Hofmann
2 (1.7%)
Cortot
0 (0%)
Delarocha
0 (0%)
Cherkassky
3 (2.5%)
Weissenberg
2 (1.7%)
Gould
8 (6.7%)

Total Members Voted: 51

Topic: Overrated!  (Read 3588 times)

Offline practicingnow

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Overrated!
on: May 30, 2006, 05:58:00 AM
Just Curious...

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #1 on: May 30, 2006, 10:57:50 AM
Glenn Gould.
There are loads of people who can play bach like him.
Only difference is that he sits funny and hes an american.
1+1=11

Offline 00range

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #2 on: May 30, 2006, 12:27:44 PM
'Science is interesting, and if you don't agree, you can *** off.'

Offline princess_moose

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #3 on: May 30, 2006, 12:43:18 PM
I don't like Gould....his recordings of Mozart piano sonatas aren't that great ...sound like Bach....
University Music Student
Woodwind Teacher
Tries to play piano

Offline tompilk

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #4 on: May 30, 2006, 12:48:42 PM
how can someone ay hamelin? he can play anything you throw at him!
Tom
Working on: Schubert - Piano Sonata D.664, Ravel - Sonatine, Ginastera - Danzas Argentinas

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #5 on: May 30, 2006, 12:49:25 PM
1+1=11

Offline kony

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #6 on: May 30, 2006, 01:15:22 PM
interesting how Lang Lang is leading the scores..

Offline henrah

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #7 on: May 30, 2006, 01:15:49 PM
If Wild was up there, him. Deffo him.
Currently learning:<br />Liszt- Consolation No.3<br />J.W.Hässler- Sonata No.6 in C, 2nd mvt<br />Gličre- No.10 from 12 Esquisses, Op.47<br />Saint-Saens- VII Aquarium<br />Mozart- Fantasie KV397<br /

Offline matt haley

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #8 on: May 30, 2006, 01:42:47 PM
  If anything kissin is underated,to many people attack him because of his personality and therefore say he is not musical....
 that is complete c**p.....

   ive seen him over five times myself and  been blown away everytime!!!

  just watch some of his videos on youtube.com...

  his scriabin etude in d# - absoulutely awesome
   strauss paraphrase
   mussorsky's pictures
   bach toccata adagio and fugue in C

  these are some of the best versions ive heard and ive listened to many...

  i cannot comprehend why people try and put him down


Offline tompilk

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #9 on: May 30, 2006, 01:47:49 PM
If Wild was up there, him. Deffo him.
yeah... a virtuoso? pfft...
Tom
Working on: Schubert - Piano Sonata D.664, Ravel - Sonatine, Ginastera - Danzas Argentinas

Offline daniel patschan

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #10 on: May 30, 2006, 03:00:20 PM
  If anything kissin is underated,to many people attack him because of his personality and therefore say he is not musical....
 that is complete c**p.....

   ive seen him over five times myself and  been blown away everytime!!!

  just watch some of his videos on youtube.com...

  his scriabin etude in d# - absoulutely awesome
   strauss paraphrase
   mussorsky's pictures
   bach toccata adagio and fugue in C

  these are some of the best versions ive heard and ive listened to many...

  i cannot comprehend why people try and put him down




People try to put him down simply because he is too good to be true ! There must be a weakness, and since there isnīt really any weakness in his playing (one may not like his style but thatīs another question) people jump on his personality (as if Horowitz would have been such a mature human being). Everybody who knows the piano hearing his playing must recognize immediately: This is not human.

Offline debussy symbolism

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #11 on: May 30, 2006, 03:15:31 PM
Greetings.

I really don't like threads like this. These pianists would not have become famous without something that makes them unique. No one is perfect. Every pianist has something new, and therefore, none of them should be marked as overrated. This inveigles the purpose of music, part of which is originality and imagination.

Offline elevateme

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #12 on: May 30, 2006, 04:20:37 PM
well said
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)

Offline stevie

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #13 on: May 30, 2006, 04:26:15 PM
maybe brendel

he has become known as a benchmark for 'intellectual authority', but what people dont realize...behind all that is a relatively colourless and boring creative personality, imo.

i say relatively, because he IS good, hes a good pianist to be sure, but he shouldnt be ranked with the names above, this is why i consider him overrated...

i wonder what steinwaymodeld thinks

Offline henrah

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #14 on: May 30, 2006, 06:29:44 PM
Greetings.

I really don't like threads like this. These pianists would not have become famous without something that makes them unique. No one is perfect. Every pianist has something new, and therefore, none of them should be marked as overrated. This inveigles the purpose of music, part of which is originality and imagination.

But that originality and imagination is only there if people recognise it, which means it connects with them. They can't say that the pianist connects with other people as they wouldn't know, therefore it is only about themselves, hence the subjectiveness of these kind of threads.

Now, these threads are only a bit of fun. They are only to find out people's different opinions on different pianists; and here you come unveiling the subjectiveness of these threads, making everyone feel bad for writing about their own opinions. Of course they shouldn't be marked as being overrated/unmusical/crap in everyway, but that doesn't mean we can't voice our opinions on who we think is overrated/unmusical/crap in everyway.

It's just a bit of fun DebussySymbolism :)
Currently learning:<br />Liszt- Consolation No.3<br />J.W.Hässler- Sonata No.6 in C, 2nd mvt<br />Gličre- No.10 from 12 Esquisses, Op.47<br />Saint-Saens- VII Aquarium<br />Mozart- Fantasie KV397<br /

Offline steveie986

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #15 on: May 30, 2006, 06:40:33 PM
I don't like Gould....his recordings of Mozart piano sonatas aren't that great ...sound like Bach....

Yes, Gould's Beethoven is sometimes shaky, his Brahms is quirky, and his Mozart is atrocious and simply a slap in Amadeus' face. But I don't think he's overrated in what he does best, which is playing complex polyphonic contrapuntal music (basically Bach and some modern Viennese School stuff). His acclaim comes from stirring up the status quo of classical music at the time, which had never heard a pianist so radically break the ruling Romanticism of Horowitz et al. This contribution cannot be overrated, I think.

Offline steveie986

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #16 on: May 30, 2006, 06:45:48 PM
Glenn Gould.
There are loads of people who can play bach like him.
Only difference is that he sits funny and hes an american.

I should very much like to hear other artists who play Bach like him. I've been looking very hard to find this person but I haven't found her yet.

There are certainly other performers who play Bach very well, perhaps even as well as he in a different way, but no one I've heard plays it "like him." Tureck, Hewitt, Perahia all have recorded some wonderful Bach, but they are very different from Gould because his technique is inimitable, because it is so difficult and so wrong.

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #17 on: May 30, 2006, 06:52:41 PM
how can someone ay hamelin? he can play anything you throw at him!
Tom

It just rarely sounds good.

Walter Ramsey

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #18 on: May 30, 2006, 06:55:26 PM
Why isn't Serkin on this list?

Walter Ramsey

Offline henrah

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #19 on: May 30, 2006, 08:02:24 PM
It just rarely sounds good.

Walter Ramsey


But when it does, oooooh boy....
Currently learning:<br />Liszt- Consolation No.3<br />J.W.Hässler- Sonata No.6 in C, 2nd mvt<br />Gličre- No.10 from 12 Esquisses, Op.47<br />Saint-Saens- VII Aquarium<br />Mozart- Fantasie KV397<br /

Offline debussy symbolism

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #20 on: May 30, 2006, 08:40:36 PM
But that originality and imagination is only there if people recognise it, which means it connects with them. They can't say that the pianist connects with other people as they wouldn't know, therefore it is only about themselves, hence the subjectiveness of these kind of threads.

Now, these threads are only a bit of fun. They are only to find out people's different opinions on different pianists; and here you come unveiling the subjectiveness of these threads, making everyone feel bad for writing about their own opinions. Of course they shouldn't be marked as being overrated/unmusical/crap in everyway, but that doesn't mean we can't voice our opinions on who we think is overrated/unmusical/crap in everyway.

It's just a bit of fun DebussySymbolism :)

Yeah, I guess you are right concerning opinion. Criticism makes it more fun and points out the weaknesses of individual pianists, that's what criticism is for. I guess that these threads are okay, after all, we can't assume that all pianists are the same simply because each one is different, and these threads point that out.

Best of Wishes. :)

Offline mephisto

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #21 on: May 30, 2006, 08:57:20 PM
maybe brendel

he has become known as a benchmark for 'intellectual authority', but what people dont realize...behind all that is a relatively colourless and boring creative personality, imo.

i say relatively, because he IS good, hes a good pianist to be sure, but he shouldnt be ranked with the names above, this is why i consider him overrated...

i wonder what steinwaymodeld thinks

You have said good things about him before. I know he has recorded some hungarian rhapsodies and I really wonder how they sound. Considering the fact that Brendel`s pianism is as far away from Cziffra(and amazing pianists when faced reportoire that requires a gypsy flavour) as can possibly be imagined.

Offline tompilk

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #22 on: May 30, 2006, 09:23:06 PM
It just rarely sounds good.

Walter Ramsey

i dont believe it... i think it sound good for most of the time.. he has got better with age... like whiskey... i think anyways...
Tom
Working on: Schubert - Piano Sonata D.664, Ravel - Sonatine, Ginastera - Danzas Argentinas

Offline henrah

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #23 on: May 30, 2006, 11:54:10 PM
I like Hamelin cos he's canadian, and I like canada. End of 8) lol

Plus, the 7 transcriptions of Chopin's Black Key etude by Godowsky on that Super Virtuoso documentary were amazing, and so beautiful. He really has such a delicate touch.
Currently learning:<br />Liszt- Consolation No.3<br />J.W.Hässler- Sonata No.6 in C, 2nd mvt<br />Gličre- No.10 from 12 Esquisses, Op.47<br />Saint-Saens- VII Aquarium<br />Mozart- Fantasie KV397<br /

Offline sissco

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #24 on: May 31, 2006, 12:22:17 AM
Hamelin 8 votes?  :o Can't believe it... :'(

Offline emmdoubleew

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #25 on: May 31, 2006, 01:05:35 AM
Glenn Gould.
There are loads of people who can play bach like him.
Only difference is that he sits funny and hes an american.

Wrong and wrong.

Offline alejo_90

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #26 on: May 31, 2006, 02:30:46 AM
How dare you put Gilels on that list ? ! ! ! !

We are talking about overrated pianists, that means we are talking about pianists who are given more fame than they should have received.

Gilels wasn't at all "overrated". Gilels was indeed "Underrated", he was often compared to Richter, wich was the disgrace of his life, and always kept a low profile.

For example, he had a formidable technique, wich alllowed him to do a lot of things that Horowitz or Cziffra could do, yet he didn't like to show it off or center too much on amaze his public with it (like Horowitz or Cziffra did, and I'm not saying I don't like them Btw.) Instead he centered on the true meaning of music, his tone was unique, and one of the most beautiful of all IMO. He squeezed every single emotion from the score when he played. His recordings of Beethoven are among the best ever made, his Beethoven's fourth concerto is simply breathtaking.

He can't be overrated

And:

Gould is not overrated.
Hamelin is not overrated, come on !
And they are some others on that list that shouldn't be considered.
Overrated IMO would be Lang Lang, and David Helfgott.

Best Wishes
Alex
It's better to make your own mistakes than copy someone else's. - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline stevie

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #27 on: May 31, 2006, 03:41:51 AM
hahaha why isnt arrau on the list?

hes just terrible in many recs

Offline jre58591

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #28 on: May 31, 2006, 03:55:14 AM
you 8 people that selected hamelin are blasphemous. he can play anything and everything. he may not always be the best interpreter, but he ius far from overrated. he is actually underrated. off with your heads!
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Offline sevencircles

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #29 on: May 31, 2006, 08:22:10 AM
Quote
you 8 people that selected hamelin are blasphemous. he can play anything and everything.

He canīt play everything.

I have heard him screw up Beethovenīs 30:th

Why isnīt Helfgott on the list?

I was the first that voted for Rachmaninov  ;D

Offline walking_encyclopedia

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #30 on: May 31, 2006, 05:14:42 PM
If Wild was up there, him. Deffo him.

Quote
yeah... a virtuoso? pfft...

respectfully disagree.

i think earl wild is actually underrated. his recs of chopin are really great even though i'll admit his touch is sometimes not as 'careful' as others. wild's forceful touch is a nice change i think, i like his raw interpretations of the etudes, ballades and scherzi.

Offline practicingnow

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #31 on: June 07, 2006, 05:01:09 AM
Final Results:

Most Overrated: Lang Lang
First Runner-up: Kissin
Second Runner-up: Hamelin

Thanks Everybody!

Offline prometheus

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #32 on: June 07, 2006, 02:14:49 PM
All famous people are overrated. That is what being famous is about.
"As an artist you don't rake in a million marks without performing some sacrifice on the Altar of Art." -Franz Liszt

Offline pianistimo

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #33 on: June 07, 2006, 02:17:09 PM
i think i heard aruan ortiz (is that his name) playing bach toccata and fugue in d minor.  it was kinda pounding (my teacher told me if ur hearing buzzes in the bass - it's too loud) - but anyway - i half liked it and half thought that he sounded a bit carried away.  should bach get this carried away?  it did sound kindof organish.  but, then again - it was almost too over the top.  i think i would have preferred a more 'refined' bach - but then again, it was a toccata. 

do u ever feel confused if u like something or not?  especially if the performer pulls it off with a certain degree of flair.

Offline alejo_90

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #34 on: June 08, 2006, 01:09:41 AM
hahaha why isnt arrau on the list?

hes just terrible in many recs

But he's great in many others, he shouldn't be on the list.

Best
Alex
It's better to make your own mistakes than copy someone else's. - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline steve_m

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #35 on: June 08, 2006, 01:12:24 AM
3

Offline princessdecadence

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #36 on: June 11, 2006, 09:48:58 PM
Yes, Gould's Beethoven is sometimes shaky, his Brahms is quirky, and his Mozart is atrocious and simply a slap in Amadeus' face. But I don't think he's overrated in what he does best, which is playing complex polyphonic contrapuntal music (basically Bach and some modern Viennese School stuff). His acclaim comes from stirring up the status quo of classical music at the time, which had never heard a pianist so radically break the ruling Romanticism of Horowitz et al. This contribution cannot be overrated, I think.

I agree with steveie986!

And he's Canadian once and for all.

"Yes, Gould's Beethoven is sometimes shaky, his Brahms is quirky, and his Mozart is atrocious and simply a slap in Amadeus' face. "

I completely love that steveie986! Completely, utterly, verily, love that! LOL!!!
~ ~

Offline steveie986

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #37 on: June 11, 2006, 10:38:50 PM
I agree with steveie986!

And he's Canadian once and for all.

"Yes, Gould's Beethoven is sometimes shaky, his Brahms is quirky, and his Mozart is atrocious and simply a slap in Amadeus' face. "

I completely love that steveie986! Completely, utterly, verily, love that! LOL!!!

I'm lovin' it, too.

Offline stevie

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #38 on: June 11, 2006, 10:49:17 PM
What recording is Arrau terrible in? ::)

in every piece that demands a presto marking, he plays adagio, badly.

Offline alejo_90

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #39 on: June 11, 2006, 11:32:41 PM
in every piece that demands a presto marking, he plays adagio, badly.

So, Cziffra played prestissimo when a piece demanded allegro, and very badly too, still he played it great. That shouldn't be a problem.

Best
Alex
It's better to make your own mistakes than copy someone else's. - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline stevie

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #40 on: June 12, 2006, 02:10:51 AM
So, Cziffra played prestissimo when a piece demanded allegro, and very badly too, still he played it great. That shouldn't be a problem.

Best
Alex

no, cziffra's general tempos are pretty normal, except a few cases ; he is more famous for sudden surges of speed and accelerandos, not particularly fast egenral tempos...unlike someone like richter.

very badly? nope

Offline sevencircles

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #41 on: June 12, 2006, 12:56:33 PM
Gould wanted to prove that Beethoven and even more Mozart are overrated composers with his playing.

He never wanted it to sound very good since the music didnīt sound good to him and he wanted to prove that itīs not very good.

Gould was not for everybody but he had one of the most unique minds in piano history.

Offline da jake

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #42 on: June 12, 2006, 09:32:08 PM
Gould actually played some awe-inspiring Mozart (though you wouldn't know it from some of his ridiculous later recordings).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000028NS/104-4579595-3155949?v=glance&n=5174

That is the very best performance of that concerto, imo. Also, there is some of the most touching Mozart playing you'll hear in the C Major Sonata. I like the version I linked as much as the Horowitz performance in Moscow.
"The best discourse upon music is silence" - Schumann

Offline mila5405

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Re: Overrated!
Reply #43 on: June 14, 2006, 08:28:37 AM
WHERE ARE VLADIMIR ASHKENAZY and YUNDI LI !!!???
 

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