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Topic: Concerto Learning  (Read 1875 times)

Offline piano0159

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Concerto Learning
on: June 02, 2006, 09:40:04 PM
Just curious, how would one (non-professional player) go about learning a piano concerto without an orchastra? Just play along a recording?

Offline jre58591

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Re: Concerto Learning
Reply #1 on: June 02, 2006, 09:41:51 PM
first, obtain a 2 piano reduction of it. then, learn the piano part as you would a regualr piece. then, find a second pianist to play the other part along with you. then rehearse together. then find an orchestra to play the concerto with.
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Offline ramseytheii

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Re: Concerto Learning
Reply #2 on: June 02, 2006, 09:42:08 PM
Just curious, how would one (non-professional player) go about learning a piano concerto without an orchastra? Just play along a recording?

They sell for the most popular concertos CDs called "Concerto Minus One" I think, is the title, where it is just the orchestra music recorded without any soloist.  It's really fun and useful.  Also if you have access to anywhere with two pianos get a friend to play the orchestra part with you.
Probably as an amateur you don't have so much time, but I also advise learning the orchestra part separately.  You don't have to learn it note-perfect, or with virtuosity, but you should know for yourself how it goes!

Walter Ramsey

Offline jre58591

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Re: Concerto Learning
Reply #3 on: June 02, 2006, 10:01:46 PM
They sell for the most popular concertos CDs called "Concerto Minus One" I think, is the title, where it is just the orchestra music recorded without any soloist.  It's really fun and useful.  Also if you have access to anywhere with two pianos get a friend to play the orchestra part with you.
Probably as an amateur you don't have so much time, but I also advise learning the orchestra part separately.  You don't have to learn it note-perfect, or with virtuosity, but you should know for yourself how it goes!

Walter Ramsey

its actually called "music minus one". i believe this is not a good preparation, for there is no room for rubato and such. also, ive heard that the orchestras in these are awful. there is no substitute for another pianist, and they can definitely prepare you better than a recording, for you are interacting with a live human being.
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Offline gruffalo

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Re: Concerto Learning
Reply #4 on: June 02, 2006, 10:07:05 PM
its actually called "music minus one". i believe this is not a good preparation, for there is no room for rubato and such. also, ive heard that the orchestras in these are awful. there is no substitute for another pianist, and they can definitely prepare you better than a recording, for you are interacting with a live human being.

yea, but i reckon just for fun for a non-proffesional it should be ok. i suppose it's down to the individual.

Offline walking_encyclopedia

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Re: Concerto Learning
Reply #5 on: June 03, 2006, 02:59:24 AM
They sell for the most popular concertos CDs called "Concerto Minus One" I think, is the title, where it is just the orchestra music recorded without any soloist.  It's really fun and useful.

well if you want to play your concerto like a metronomic clock, yes.

i'd recommend getting a schirmer edition for two pianos, and learn your part, and hire an accompanist if you're preparing for a competition. that way you'll be able to offer your own interpretation (speed, accelerandos, etc.) and the accompanist can follow you.

if you're just doing it for fun then your teacher or a friend can play the orchestra part.

Offline piano0159

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Re: Concerto Learning
Reply #6 on: June 03, 2006, 07:00:00 AM
Where can I find the two pianos edition of Mozart piano concerti? Also Beethoven and Chopin?

Offline nicko124

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Re: Concerto Learning
Reply #7 on: June 03, 2006, 08:15:39 AM
So, if you play along the 'music minus one' method you will have to keep exactly in time for the whole of the concerto.
I imagine that being very difficult, you will have to be very good at counting than to stay in time.

Offline thorn

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Re: Concerto Learning
Reply #8 on: June 03, 2006, 09:42:54 AM
Where can I find the two pianos edition of Mozart piano concerti? Also Beethoven and Chopin?

I know that the Schirmer music publishing do two piano editions of concerti. I have Chopin, Liszt and Rachmaninov two-piano concertos from them.

Offline teresa_b

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Re: Concerto Learning
Reply #9 on: June 03, 2006, 11:54:01 AM
As an amateur pianist who has performed several concerti with chamber orchestra (Mozart) I vouch for the second piano accompaniment, not the "music minus one" recordings, for the reason already suggested.  You can't vary your tempo, and the tempos on the recordings are generally not the ones you will be playing. 

Schirmer has just about all the Mozart concerti, and most other commonly played ones--keep in mind these editions  have all sorts of dynamic markings that Mozart did NOT put in there.  But they are easy to read for my eyes.  I use them but I also get another edition, urtext if possible, to compare with the Schirmer.  You can get two-piano editions from CF Peters, Kalmus, or check out Sheet Music Plus. 

All the best, Teresa

Offline nicco

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Re: Concerto Learning
Reply #10 on: June 03, 2006, 12:09:03 PM
I have some experience with the MMO. Its fun, its like playing with a metronome only that now you are also able to see if you really know your stuff. Now you HAVE to continue whether you play errors or mess up some places, because the orchestra wont stop, so it will be similar to the actual concert, just that there you will have a bit more freedom. I see no reason but to recommend trying music minus one versions :)
"Without music, life would be a mistake." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline piano0159

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Re: Concerto Learning
Reply #11 on: June 08, 2006, 02:29:17 AM
does anyone know where I can download a recording of any two piano version concerto? I just want to hear what they sound like.

Offline sergei r

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Re: Concerto Learning
Reply #12 on: June 10, 2006, 09:26:00 AM
I still don't understand what happens with MMO when you get to a 2 minute plus cadenza, especially when cadenzas are often full of rubato...as if anyone could come in perfectly on time.
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Offline nicco

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Re: Concerto Learning
Reply #13 on: June 10, 2006, 10:54:04 AM
I still don't understand what happens with MMO when you get to a 2 minute plus cadenza, especially when cadenzas are often full of rubato...as if anyone could come in perfectly on time.

When they record the MMO, they first record the piano concerto WITH the soloist, then afterwards when they are playing without, they have the soloist on headphones or something to follow his cadenzas. That way its slightly more accurate then the metronome.
"Without music, life would be a mistake." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline mennan

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Re: Concerto Learning
Reply #14 on: June 11, 2006, 11:42:09 AM
Where can I find piano concerto no.4 op.58 of Beethoven and the piano concerto no.20 in d-minor of Mozart?
 

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