Czerny, Hanon, Clementi & Brahms

[ivoryplayer_amf]

Right now I am practicing out of each of these books:

Czerny- Finger Dextereity
Hanon Vol. 1 & 2
Clementi Exercises
Brahms 51 Exercises

I have brahms a bit too addvanced.  I mean there are a few exercises in there I can do with no problem and have found them to be extremely helpful.  But for the most part, I am not getting good use out of the book.

The Clementi excercies bore me to death.  I cant stand them.  And I'm starting to find it hard to do the Czerny exercises beccause they are a lot alike.  However I LOVE the hannon exercises.  I just started working on them 4 days ago and I'm already on the fourth exercise.

What do y'all think about this?  Are there any good suggestions out there that might help me out.  I'm basically trying my hardest to study a lot this summer but find myself not doing all of the books.  I was thinking about finding a teacher to help me out but I dont know if I will be able to find one in this town.

[gonzalo]

Right now I am practicing out of each of these books:

Czerny- Finger Dextereity
Hanon Vol. 1 & 2
Clementi Exercises
Brahms 51 Exercises

I have brahms a bit too addvanced.  I mean there are a few exercises in there I can do with no problem and have found them to be extremely helpful.  But for the most part, I am not getting good use out of the book.

The Clementi excercies bore me to death.  I cant stand them.  And I'm starting to find it hard to do the Czerny exercises beccause they are a lot alike.  However I LOVE the hannon exercises.  I just started working on them 4 days ago and I'm already on the fourth exercise.

What do y'all think about this?  Are there any good suggestions out there that might help me out.  I'm basically trying my hardest to study a lot this summer but find myself not doing all of the books.  I was thinking about finding a teacher to help me out but I dont know if I will be able to find one in this town.

Why do you want to do all these exercises?

[ivoryplayer_amf]

Why do you want to do all these exercises?

So that I can get something different from each of them

[wenat]

My goodness....yes excercises are good and beneficial to a point, but I hope you're also doing some other repertoire as well...what would the point be of having great technique but not being able to play a piece!!! 

[kriskicksass]

Right now I am practicing out of each of these books:

Czerny- Finger Dextereity
Hanon Vol. 1 & 2
Clementi Exercises
Brahms 51 Exercises

I have brahms a bit too addvanced.  I mean there are a few exercises in there I can do with no problem and have found them to be extremely helpful.  But for the most part, I am not getting good use out of the book.

The Clementi excercies bore me to death.  I cant stand them.  And I'm starting to find it hard to do the Czerny exercises beccause they are a lot alike.  However I LOVE the hannon exercises.  I just started working on them 4 days ago and I'm already on the fourth exercise.

What do y'all think about this?  Are there any good suggestions out there that might help me out.  I'm basically trying my hardest to study a lot this summer but find myself not doing all of the books.  I was thinking about finding a teacher to help me out but I dont know if I will be able to find one in this town.

Pick one book (and for the love of God, not the Brahms!). Play the exercises in order, one per week. When you go on to the next exercise, you must still play all the others you've learned at least once a week. What good is it to lift 50 lb with your biceps one day, but then never again exercise them? Technical exercises are the weight-lifting of piano, and you must return to exercises repeatedly if you want any real benefit from them.

[nightingale11]

Pick one book (and for the love of God, not the Brahms!). Play the exercises in order, one per week. When you go on to the next exercise, you must still play all the others you've learned at least once a week. What good is it to lift 50 lb with your biceps one day, but then never again exercise them? Technical exercises are the weight-lifting of piano, and you must return to exercises repeatedly if you want any real benefit from them.

don't listen to him....and read c.c.changs book-   https://members.aol.com/chang8828/contents.htm

you will understand why. read it.
 

[kriskicksass]

don't listen to him....and read c.c.changs book-   https://members.aol.com/chang8828/contents.htm

you will understand why. read it.
 

Nightingale, how dare you!? Not only do you insult me by telling the original poster to not listen to me without offering a counterstatement or alternate advice, you then spit in my face by siting that "book" as your evidence against my advice.

Ivoryplayer, I will not embarrass any of us by listing my credentials, but take my word when I say that I am better informed than anyone who tries to shoot down time-tested arguments by throwing around the link to Chang.

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

With Clementi do you refer to the Sonatinas? I am familiar with them. Do them. They are very helpfull and prepare you for Mozart, Beethoven. Do Czerny. I have tried some Hanon excercises and you may do them if you'd like, I didn't like them. Scales, arps, chords, Czerny, ect is alot more helpfull. If you do like them then feel free to excercise them. From what I know about them, don't go for speed, but always for finger dexterity and relaxations.

[mikey6]

Greetings.

With Clementi do you refer to the Sonatinas?

I would say he means the 'gradus ad parsanum'.

Pick one book (and for the love of God, not the Brahms!).

Why not the Brahms - I'm working through some of them at the moment and they're great - some of them are bloody hard though.  At least they're not mind-numbingly bland like some of the Czerny.

[debussy symbolism]

Actually, some of Czerny is quite fun to play. A few of the pieces are actually beautifull.

[bernhard]

Nightingale, how dare you!? Not only do you insult me by telling the original poster to not listen to me without offering a counterstatement or alternate advice, you then spit in my face by siting that "book" as your evidence against my advice.

Ivoryplayer, I will not embarrass any of us by listing my credentials, but take my word when I say that I am better informed than anyone who tries to shoot down time-tested arguments by throwing around the link to Chang.

Er… You may wish to have a look here:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/board,4/topic,4880.3.html#msg46319
(discusses how to acquire technique and what technique actually is)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4082.msg37362.html#msg37362
(one cannot learn technique in a vacuum. At the same time one cannot simply play pieces – comparison with tennis)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4385.msg41226.html#msg41226
(technique is personal and relative to the piece – Fosberry flop – the best books on technique)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4880.msg46339.html#msg46339
(definition of technique: quote from Fink, Sandor and Pires – Example of the A-E-A arpeggio)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5352.msg50998.html#msg50998
(Exercises x repertory – why technique cannot be isolated from music – analogy with warmup in the martial arts – dynamic flexibility and co-ordination – how to do high kicks without warming up)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7341.msg114168.html#msg114168
(repeated note-groups for difficult passages – correct technique is never uncomfortable – rotation as the solution to 5th finger weakness – criticism to misguided technical exercises – trusting the unconscious)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2998.msg26268.html#msg26268
(Scales HT, why? – why and when to practise scales HS and HT – Pragmatical  x logical way of teaching – analogy with aikido – list of piano techniques – DVORAK – realistic x sports martial arts – technique and how to acquire it by solving technical problems – Hanon and why it should be avoided - Lemmings)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=13583.msg147163#msg147163
(Why Hanon is a waste of time – or not -  summary of arguments and many relevant links)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,15701.msg171057.html#msg171057
(debunking Dohnanyi)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,11699.msg122788.html#msg122788
(technical exercises – reply # 8 by xvimbi is most excellent)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

Actually, some of Czerny is quite fun to play. A few of the pieces are actually beautifull.

I totally agree. I particularly like (amongst others) op. 139 no. 98 played prestissimo.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[kriskicksass]

Er… You may wish to have a look here:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/board,4/topic,4880.3.html#msg46319
(discusses how to acquire technique and what technique actually is)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4082.msg37362.html#msg37362
(one cannot learn technique in a vacuum. At the same time one cannot simply play pieces – comparison with tennis)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4385.msg41226.html#msg41226
(technique is personal and relative to the piece – Fosberry flop – the best books on technique)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4880.msg46339.html#msg46339
(definition of technique: quote from Fink, Sandor and Pires – Example of the A-E-A arpeggio)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5352.msg50998.html#msg50998
(Exercises x repertory – why technique cannot be isolated from music – analogy with warmup in the martial arts – dynamic flexibility and co-ordination – how to do high kicks without warming up)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7341.msg114168.html#msg114168
(repeated note-groups for difficult passages – correct technique is never uncomfortable – rotation as the solution to 5th finger weakness – criticism to misguided technical exercises – trusting the unconscious)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2998.msg26268.html#msg26268
(Scales HT, why? – why and when to practise scales HS and HT – Pragmatical  x logical way of teaching – analogy with aikido – list of piano techniques – DVORAK – realistic x sports martial arts – technique and how to acquire it by solving technical problems – Hanon and why it should be avoided - Lemmings)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=13583.msg147163#msg147163
(Why Hanon is a waste of time – or not -  summary of arguments and many relevant links)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,15701.msg171057.html#msg171057
(debunking Dohnanyi)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,11699.msg122788.html#msg122788
(technical exercises – reply # 8 by xvimbi is most excellent)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

And I welcome and accept your alternative viewpoint because you offer sound counterstatements and evidence. (Of course, we'll still have to agree to disagree.)

I would say he means the 'gradus ad parsanum'.
Why not the Brahms - I'm working through some of them at the moment and they're great - some of them are bloody hard though.  At least they're not mind-numbingly bland like some of the Czerny.

The problem I have with Brahms is that his piano technique is somewhat specialized to his music. His exercises are extremely beneficial if you want to play a lot of Brahms, but otherwise their extreme difficulty makes them somewhat impractical. When you work from something more central to the repertoire (such as Liszt, Dohnanyi, Hanon, Cortot, or Clementi) you can build to the specialties much more easily than you can move from the specialties to the standard.

[pianochild]

i need help with Hanon, the virtuoso pianist.
I have been doing them for a while and on the last sort of 7 exercises ( to the back of the book) i am finding some of them extreemly difficult. Are they supposed to be easy?
the Tremalato
The octaves


HeLp !!

[mikey6]

The problem I have with Brahms is that his piano technique is somewhat specialized to his music. His exercises are extremely beneficial if you want to play a lot of Brahms, but otherwise their extreme difficulty makes them somewhat impractical. When you work from something more central to the repertoire (such as Liszt, Dohnanyi, Hanon, Cortot, or Clementi) you can build to the specialties much more easily than you can move from the specialties to the standard.

I wouldn't say all the excercises are specific to Brahms - the 1st set is scales, the 2nd is thirds - surely common enough? the thumb excercises and 5 finger 'eveness' excerises are surley suited to all practical playing.
I do agree that there are some pulled straight out of his own works but I wouldn't say it's that confined.