Concert Program

[bflatminor24]

Hey everyone,

I'm supposed to perform July 15th, but I would like some opinions of what to play for my Chopin works. The program is as follows:

Beethoven - Appassionata
Chopin - Preludes 7 and 8 (A major and F sharp minor)
Chopin - Winter wind
Rachamninoff - Prelude Op.23/5 in G minor
Rachmaninoff - Prelude Op.23/2 in B flat major

Should I pick different pieces for the Chopin? Please give opinions regarding repertoire choice. I can change it at will.
Thanks!

~Max~

[phil13]

That actually look very good, Max. A lot of contrast between the works.

May I ask why there is no Bach?

Also, I wouldn't do Chopin Prelude No.8 back to back with Winter Wind. They are very similar in their character. A better fit would be the changing of the etude to, say, 10-4 in C#-? Or maybe 10-7 in C? Maybe you could do two different preludes, like Nos. 23 and 24, in F major and D minor.

Just swap one of them for better contrast. The Rachmaninoff looks good, but you might want to add something more lyrical- try Op.32-5, in G major, in addition to the two you listed.

Phil

[bflatminor24]

Hey Phil,

Thanks for the help! You're completely right about all of that. I changed it to:

Beethoven Appassionata
Chopin 25/5
Chopin 25/11
Rach 23/5
Rach 23/2
(Encore:Träumerei?)

Sorry I don't have a Bach, but I don't think there is room.

[phil13]

Okay, now it's looking a little better. Still, I think you need another Rach prelude in a major key, since it will sound a little odd in the scheme you have now:

Minor(Major)Minor----Minor-Minor------Minor-Major
Appassionata-------Chopin Etudes--Rach Preludes

Now, what other Chopin do you have in your rep? And what other Rach preludes?

And, just for spice, what do you have in terms of Scriabin?

Phil

[bflatminor24]

Okay, now it's looking a little better. Still, I think you need another Rach prelude in a major key, since it will sound a little odd in the scheme you have now:

Minor(Major)Minor----Minor-Minor------Minor-Major
Appassionata-------Chopin Etudes--Rach Preludes

Now, what other Chopin do you have in your rep? And what other Rach preludes?

And, just for spice, what do you have in terms of Scriabin?

Phil

I'm working on learning all of Opus 8 Scriabin Etudes but none of them are ready to perform...I also know Rach 23/7 in C minor but none other than 32/12 in G sharp minor. NO MAJOR ONES. Sorry.

Max

[phil13]

I'm working on learning all of Opus 8 Scriabin Etudes but none of them are ready to perform...I also know Rach 23/7 in C minor but none other than 32/12 in G sharp minor. NO MAJOR ONES. Sorry.

Max

And...Chopin?

Phil

[pianistimo]

i love the chopin and rach preludes - but is this a theme here - or would u consider something like a scherzo or ballade with the etude?  it might seem a little bit preludish to have so many preludes.  (oh, i see, u changed to etudes only).

now, i'm no program expert, mind u.  this program may be perfectly fine.  i'm just wondering out loud.  susan

since ur playing very soon, perhaps all u need to add is one more composer either on the baroque side or classical?  although going the other direction, medtner was one of rach's favorite composers wasn't he?  maybe u should keep the program and add him?  just read about his skazki or 'folkmusic' that he composed for his wife.  i have no idea what they sound like - but they sound short and possibly easy to learn (perhaps to add later).  i'm trying to listen to shura cherkassky play them.  i see 'forgotten melodies' by marc-andre hamelin. 

[phil13]

i love the chopin and rach preludes - but is this a theme here - or would u consider something like a scherzo or ballade with the etude?  it might seem a little bit preludish to have so many preludes.  (oh, i see, u changed to etudes only).

now, i'm no program expert, mind u.  this program may be perfectly fine.  i'm just wondering out loud.  susan

since ur playing very soon, perhaps all u need to add is one more composer either on the baroque side or classical?  although going the other direction, medtner was one of rach's favorite composers wasn't he?  maybe u should keep the program and add him?  just read about his skazki or 'folkmusic' that he composed for his wife.  i have no idea what they sound like - but they sound short and possibly easy to learn (perhaps to add later).  i'm trying to listen to shura cherkassky play them.  i see 'forgotten melodies' by marc-andre hamelin. 

A lot of Medtner is extremely difficult- even in the fairy tales and his shorter works. Even at Max's level, I don't know if he could learn even a shorter Medtner Skazka in the- what, 2.5-3 weeks he has? Unless, of course, learning stuff quickly is his strong point.

I would suggest, as I said before, playing a less agitated or more serene Chopin etude to complement the vivacity and power of 25-11. These are my personal picks:

10-3
10-6
10-7
10-11

25-1
25-7
25-9

Any of these would be a good mixer with 25-11, although as I said, you need another piece in a major key to balance the Appassionata, so I would pick 10-3, 10-7, 10-11, 25-1, or 25-9. Do you have any of these in your repertoire?

Another option which I haven't discussed is the possibility of doing two Chopin mazurkas (major, major? or major, minor?) before Winter Wind. It's really hard to give you a definite opinion because I have yet to hear what you have learned out of Chopin's works.

Phil

[bflatminor24]

A lot of Medtner is extremely difficult- even in the fairy tales and his shorter works. Even at Max's level, I don't know if he could learn even a shorter Medtner Skazka in the- what, 2.5-3 weeks he has? Unless, of course, learning stuff quickly is his strong point.

I would suggest, as I said before, playing a less agitated or more serene Chopin etude to complement the vivacity and power of 25-11. These are my personal picks:

10-3
10-6
10-7
10-11

25-1
25-7
25-9

Any of these would be a good mixer with 25-11, although as I said, you need another piece in a major key to balance the Appassionata, so I would pick 10-3, 10-7, 10-11, 25-1, or 25-9. Do you have any of these in your repertoire?

Another option which I haven't discussed is the possibility of doing two Chopin mazurkas (major, major? or major, minor?) before Winter Wind. It's really hard to give you a definite opinion because I have yet to hear what you have learned out of Chopin's works.

Phil

I know this of Chopin:

Etudes 10/3, 10/4, 10/6, 10/12, 25/1, 25/5, 25/10, 25/11, 25/12
All Preludes except 16 (which is too hard)
Scherzo 2
Sonata 2
Heroic Polonaise
Military Polonaise
Various nocturnes (F minor, C sharp minor, E flat major)
Various waltes and mazurkas

Thanks!

~Max~

PS I wish I could play Medtner. I love his Night Wind Sonata.

[phil13]

I know this of Chopin:

Etudes 10/3, 10/4, 10/6, 10/12, 25/1, 25/5, 25/10, 25/11, 25/12
All Preludes except 16 (which is too hard)
Scherzo 2
Sonata 2
Heroic Polonaise
Military Polonaise
Various nocturnes (F minor, C sharp minor, E flat major)
Various waltes and mazurkas

Thanks!

~Max~ 

Well, here's my opinion. I really think you should do 10-3. That would not only be the serene piece we're looking for, because it is slow it would also give a brief pause between the thunderstorm that is Appassionata, and the other 3 quick pieces. And, as an added bonus, 10-3 ende in E major, the perfect dominant to lead right into Winter Wind's A minor.

The problem with many programs nowadays is that they're too much bravura, not enough contemplation. Everybody needs a break in a program filled with bravura pieces, and I think 10-3 is the perfect fit.

PS I wish I could play Medtner. I love his Night Wind Sonata.

I love it too, slowly becoming obsessed with it. Supposedly, it's one of the hardest piano sonatas to play (obviously not counting more modernist composers)

I'm just getting into Medtner myself. I started one of his fairy tales a few days ago, for the purpose of using it in my college audition program. If you care to add your opinion, take a look here:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,18917.0.html

Phil

[bflatminor24]

Well, here's my opinion. I really think you should do 10-3. That would not only be the serene piece we're looking for, because it is slow it would also give a brief pause between the thunderstorm that is Appassionata, and the other 3 quick pieces. And, as an added bonus, 10-3 ende in E major, the perfect dominant to lead right into Winter Wind's A minor.

The problem with many programs nowadays is that they're too much bravura, not enough contemplation. Everybody needs a break in a program filled with bravura pieces, and I think 10-3 is the perfect fit.

I love it too, slowly becoming obsessed with it. Supposedly, it's one of the hardest piano sonatas to play (obviously not counting more modernist composers)

I'm just getting into Medtner myself. I started one of his fairy tales a few days ago, for the purpose of using it in my college audition program. If you care to add your opinion, take a look here:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,18917.0.html

Phil

I agree with you, but explain to me this:

How is 25/5 different from 10/3? They BOTH end in E major, they both have quiet and serene moments and they're both not that technically difficult.

BUT I prefer 25/5 because I recently learned it, whereas 10/3 I learned two years ago. How is 10/3 better than 25/5?

Plus 25/5 is very contemplative, and not showy...

~Max~

[phil13]

True. I've got to give you that. Perhaps it's a personal taste thing- I personally don't care for 25/5.

HOWEVER, the main reasons why I suggested 10-3 are as follows:

On the whole, it's slower and more contemplative.

It ends quietly and slowly, whereas 25/5 has that giant FFF ending. This is a big one, because I personally think you need something quiet to lead into the recitative-like opening of 25-11, consequently making the shock of the first sextuplet and the first forte even more intense- almost as if the the etudes were two connected works.

Phil

[bflatminor24]

True. I've got to give you that. Perhaps it's a personal taste thing- I personally don't care for 25/5.

HOWEVER, the main reasons why I suggested 10-3 are as follows:

On the whole, it's slower and more contemplative.

It ends quietly and slowly, whereas 25/5 has that giant FFF ending. This is a big one, because I personally think you need something quiet to lead into the recitative-like opening of 25-11, consequently making the shock of the first sextuplet and the first forte even more intense- almost as if the the etudes were two connected works.

Phil

Good call. I'll discuss it with my teacher.

Also, what should I encore with? Should I do Schumann's Träumerei, since I don't wanna have a virtuosic encore after the virtuosis 23/2 prelude? Or should I do like 8/12 scriabin like you did....thoughts?

~Max~

PS Phil I love you, you're so helpful and well-informed. If only more could follow your example. And you don't talk down either.

[phil13]

Good call. I'll discuss it with my teacher.

Also, what should I encore with? Should I do Schumann's Träumerei, since I don't wanna have a virtuosic encore after the virtuosis 23/2 prelude? Or should I do like 8/12 scriabin like you did....thoughts?

~Max~

um...8-12 wouldn't work too well here, but why not do two? Do Traumerei first, then maybe Chopin 25-1?

       

PS Phil I love you, you're so helpful and well-informed. If only more could follow your example. And you don't talk down either.

  Thank you so much! This is funny, because according to your profile I am younger than you are. Go figure.

Most of what I know comes from the fact that I am a composer in addition to a pianist. Thus, to gain info about the various composers through the years I read and listen through EVERYTHING, but Chopin happens to be one of my most favorite composers, and one I devote much time to, so you lucked out. 

Phil


PS What do you mean by 'talking down'?

[bflatminor24]

um...8-12 wouldn't work too well here, but why not do two? Do Traumerei first, then maybe Chopin 25-1?

  Thank you so much! This is funny, because according to your profile I am younger than you are. Go figure.

Most of what I know comes from the fact that I am a composer in addition to a pianist. Thus, to gain info about the various composers through the years I read and listen through EVERYTHING, but Chopin happens to be one of my most favorite composers, and one I devote much time to, so you lucked out. 

Phil


PS What do you mean by 'talking down'?

Well, Soliloquy might say something like,

"I would recommend ____ by Chopin, but clearly you're an "incompetant" pianist so I guess you're too stupid to learn it. Oh well. Why even bother wasting my time with morons like you. Cockslap."

You compose? That's awesome! I want to see/hear a sample of your compositions. I myself am working on a four movement sonata in B flat minor (go figure) with each movement representing a new pianistic paradigm, such as the subtle complexity of Schubert, the contrapuntal intellectualism of Bach and Brahms and Beethoven, the virtuosic romanticism of Liszt and the textural beauty of Rachmaninoff and Medtner, with a cadenza a la Sorabji...

~Max~

PS I think Alistair knows about this work...

[phil13]

Well, Soliloquy might say something like,

"I would recommend ____ by Chopin, but clearly you're an "incompetant" pianist so I guess you're too stupid to learn it. Oh well. Why even bother wasting my time with morons like you. Cockslap."

You compose? That's awesome! I want to see/hear a sample of your compositions. I myself am working on a four movement sonata in B flat minor (go figure) with each movement representing a new pianistic paradigm, such as the subtle complexity of Schubert, the contrapuntal intellectualism of Bach and Brahms and Beethoven, the virtuosic romanticism of Liszt and the textural beauty of Rachmaninoff and Medtner, with a cadenza a la Sorabji...

~Max~

PS I think Alistair knows about this work...

Ah, I see, for I have been lurking around in many very argumentative posts lately.

Here's a partial list of what I've composed:

Dance for String Quartet in C# minor (of which there's a MIDI floating arond this forum somewhere. Search for it, if you like.)

Sonata in B minor for Piano and Cello:
I. Adagio-Allegro maestoso
II. Scherzando.
III. Andante dolente.
IV. Largo- Agitato, alla giga.

Variations on an Original 'Arietta' Theme in G minor

Polonaise in C# minor

Tartanella in C# minor for 2 pianos

And, my unfinished pride and joy,

Concerto No.1 in F minor for Piano and Orchestra (3 mvts.)- the 1st mvt. is finished, and I've got to write the second because my high school (read: former HS- I just graduated) symphony orchestra is actually going to PERFORM it (meaning just the second mvt.)- with yours truly as the soloist!

Phil

[bflatminor24]

Ah, I see, for I have been lurking around in many very argumentative posts lately.

Here's a partial list of what I've composed:

Dance for String Quartet in C# minor (of which there's a MIDI floating arond this forum somewhere. Search for it, if you like.)

Sonata in B minor for Piano and Cello:
I. Adagio-Allegro maestoso
II. Scherzando.
III. Andante dolente.
IV. Largo- Agitato, alla giga.

Variations on an Original 'Arietta' Theme in G minor

Polonaise in C# minor

Tartanella in C# minor for 2 pianos

And, my unfinished pride and joy,

Concerto No.1 in F minor for Piano and Orchestra (3 mvts.)- the 1st mvt. is finished, and I've got to write the second because my high school (read: former HS- I just graduated) symphony orchestra is actually going to PERFORM it (meaning just the second mvt.)- with yours truly as the soloist!

Phil

CONGRATS PHIL!

Do you intend to become a pianist? I hope you do, because your dedication is amazing.

Can I see the score for your piano concerto and possibly your other works? I won't steal it I am just curious.... so don't worry about copyrighting it first.

~Max~

[phil13]

Yes, I hope to either be a concert pianist or a composer- whichever one gets me a paying job. Maybe both.


The score for the Concerto is too big to scan here at my house- it's on ancient 17x11 cardstock paper.

As for the others, well, maybe if I can PM them to you somehow, I will.

Phil

[phil13]

ooh, I just got an idea.
What's your e-mail?

Phil

[bflatminor24]

ooh, I just got an idea.
What's your e-mail?

Phil

mhammer7@yahoo.com..also my AIM is BflatMinor24. You?

[phil13]

mhammer7@yahoo.com..also my AIM is BflatMinor24. You?

philtaylor13@aol.com

and

PhilTaylor13  on AIM

Phil

[phil13]

I know this of Chopin:

All Preludes except 16 (which is too hard)

I just thought of something. For your encore, do preludes Op.28 Nos. 15 and 24. First, attract them with something well-known, then unleash fury with the most passionate prelude. There is no better way to end a recital.

Phil