Immortality

[zheer]

   Is Immortality a good thing or a bad thing, and what does it mean to be immortal. 

[phil13]

1. To never die. Bad- think of the massive amount of taxes you'd have to pay, not to mention paying Social Security for an old age that is reached in the year infinity.

2. To be forever remembered through something you did or something you left behind. Good, because you made a lasting impact on society which is a benefit for the good of mankind.

Of course, to be fair...

Never dying means plenty of time to perfect the piano and learn EVERYTHING in thje rep, not to mention the other benefits... (Re: women)

And of course, Hitler and Stalin made a lasting impression on society...

Phil

[zheer]

  Well in that case i guess it is a very selfish existence.

[pianistimo]

a choice that men were given at creation.  to take from the tree of life!  or the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.  if adam and eve had taken from the tree of life first (which was offerred to them) then God wouldn't have said 'behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil (deciding for himself good and evil); and now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and LIVE FOREVER.'  so basically, as i understand it, we are not immortal since adam was banned from the tree by the angels that protected the garden afterwards.  the tree was supplanted by Jesus Christ, who IS the 'living waters.'

in the New Testament, Jesus Christ says 'anyone who drinks of me, will LIVE FOREVER.'  so i think that we do not have eternal life inherent in us already.  the samaritan woman was surprised to be told about these 'living waters.'  others had already asked 'how can a man be 'born again.'  he said, except u be born of 'spirit' u cannot be.  they contended - how can we get back inside the womb and be 'born again?'  he mentions the correlation between 'blood and water' (which was given for us at the crucifixion) and the 'spirit and life.'  if our physical life is in the blood - our spiritual life is in Christ Jesus. 

if it was selfish to want to live forever - why would God offer it at creation?  i think that death is what God did not want.  sin and death are really what we should avoid - not life and everlasting life.  in revelation 22:2 'in the middle of it's street (the street where the river of the water of LIFE, flowing from the throne of God and the Lamb) is and on either side of the river was the TREE OF LIFE.'

the same tree that was in the garden of eden.  ....'bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS.'  i think this is very telling.  the government of God will be SO DIFFERENT than what we have today.  it will be FAIR.  JUST.  EQUITABLE.  for everyone.  noone will feel cheated.  everyone will feel empowered.  the nations will be shown the way of peace.  noone will be warring.  otherwise they would have been destroyed before the kingdom was set up.  this kingdom is the kingdom of heaven.  certain people are not allowed to enter in.  not necessarily sinners - but those who do not accept Christ's atoning sacrifice (as i understand it). 22:14 'blessed are those who WASH THEIR ROBES, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates unto the city.'

[Waldszenen]

Most people initially think it would be cool to live forever, to enjoy the pleasures of life for an infinite amount of time. Until you're extremely old, weary of life, with all loved ones and family long departed, lonely and senile, depressed...


And that's when death suddenly seems too beautiful.

[pianistimo]

death was an unknown concept until it was introduced.  even then, people used to live 800-900 years.  take methusalah for instance.  he must have had a strong heart (and yes, some sadness to outlive all his kids and things like that).

ok.  dejavu,  i can hear it coming. 

[lisztisforkids]

death was an unknown concept until it was introduced.  even then, people used to live 800-900 years.  take methusalah for instance.  he must have had a strong heart (and yes, some sadness to outlive all his kids and things like that).

ok.  dejavu,  i can hear it coming. 

 

[pianistimo]

suppose u don't believe abraham had issac at age 100 either.  God can do pretty much whatever He wants to.  our minds only accept what we are familiar with and know.  but, somewhere in genesis God limits the lifespan of man to no more than 120 years.  and, that's where it is today.

ok.  i know it sounds like a bunch of mythology - but i didn't come up with the plan.  i'm just backing it. (like with iraq).  u find out later the reasons.  i find it interesting that ishmael and  issac were the fathers of many nations.  both arabic (which still teach of abraham) and christian nations (which teach of jacob - ) that have the bible.

[thalbergmad]

death was an unknown concept until it was introduced.  even then, people used to live 800-900 years.  take methusalah for instance.  he must have had a strong heart (and yes, some sadness to outlive all his kids and things like that).

ok.  dejavu,  i can hear it coming. 

You don't actually believe that do you??

Not even a tortoise lives that long.

Thal

[Kassaa]

You don't actually believe that do you??

Not even a tortoise lives that long.

Thal

Biblehuggers will probably say that 800-900 bible-years equal 50 human year or something.

[jlh]

People who believe in the Bible also believe the account of creation and the great flood of the book of Genesis.  According to the Bible, the reason people lived so long prior to the flood is because the earth was a healthier place to live before the great flood (the floodwaters were the waters "above the earth" that shielded the sun's rays and made this "greenhouse effect"). That's what I've heard anyway.

[pianistimo]

seriously,  i have no idea why God does what He does - perception is only half of reality.  the fact we exist and we know that we ARE existing and look for a reason for that existence tells me that God considers us important.  enough to maintain our lives and teach us about Himself and living together with others. if He didn't give us a mind and leave us the bible, i'd worry.

[thalbergmad]

if He didn't give us a mind and leave us the bible, i'd worry.

He did not bother in some cases.

Thal

[lisztisforkids]

Biblehuggers will probably say that 800-900 bible-years equal 50 human year or something.

 Yup. Just like they know say that God really dident create the world in 7 days, that is just a metaphor...

[jlh]

 Yup. Just like they know say that God really dident create the world in 7 days, that is just a metaphor...

Some people actually believe that account to be literal.

[thalbergmad]

 Yup. Just like they know say that God really dident create the world in 7 days, that is just a metaphor...

Me thought he did it in six and took Sunday off.

Thal

[jlh]

Me thought he did it in six and took Sunday off.

Thal

Sunday didn't exist back then...

Plus, he took the sabbath off, which means Saturday for many people.

[prometheus]

According to the bible you need to kill your neightbour if she or he works on Sabbath, meaning Saturday.

[johnny-boy]

According to the bible you need to kill your neightbour if she or he works on Sabbath, meaning Saturday.

Prometheus,

What book of the Bible and what verses did you find this in?

John

[nicco]

You guys arent immortal? Guess its just me

[prometheus]

“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy”. Exodus 20:8

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever.  It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.  Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy.  Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community.  Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest.  I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.'  (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

(Note that this phrase not only immoral, it also contradicts itself.)

On six days work may be done, but the seventh day shall be sacred to you as the Sabbath of complete rest to the Lord.  Anyone who does work on that day, shall be put to death.  You shall not even light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.   (Exodus 35:2-3 NAB)

  "While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was discovered gathering wood on the Sabbath day.  Those who caught him at it brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly.  But they kept him in custody, for there was no clear decision as to what should be done with him.  Then the Lord said to Moses, "This man shall be put to death; let the whole community stone him outside the camp." So the whole community led him outside the camp and stoned him to death as the Lord had commanded Moses."   Numbers 15:32-36 NAB

But if you do not listen to me and refuse to keep the Sabbath holy, and if on the Sabbath day you bring loads of merchandise through the gates of Jerusalem just as on other days, then I will set fire to these gates. The fire will spread to the palaces, and no one will be able to put out the roaring flames.   (Jeremiah 17:27 NLT)

[johnny-boy]

Thanks Prometheus. It will make interesting conversation at church tomorrow.

Best, John

[prometheus]

You must understand the the Old Testament is about a people more barbaric, intolerant and primitive then the Taliban were.

And that is not so strange since these people lived very long ago. But if you read the poem of Gilgamesh, the oldest story of the world and basis for some of the stories of the bible, then you will be amazed. The bible is really poor proze. But Gilgamesh is amazing. It is more progressive anything Hollywood has ever produced.

But back to the point. You don't use the mythology of people that lived 4000 years ago as a basis for the moral choices you are going to make in the modern world of today.

[stevie]

[pianistimo]

well, there's the law of the jungle and then the law of God.  i say, the law of the jungle is hard to make sense of.  at least, with the law of God you know why ur being told to rest.  that we need rest.  that our bodies can rejuvinate and that our minds can be taught.  it's hard to listen to someone when you're doing something else.  God is a good teacher.  why would He want disrespect.  if He says something, He means it.  He wants us to be quiet and listen.  i can't think of any teacher who doesn't want that at some time or other.  usually it's a yell 'shut up and listen.'  but, with God - it's like learning 'you're right' when you get too much stress and feel like your going to have a heart attack from not resting much.

the old testament was speaking to the israelites in particular - who were called out to be an example to the nations of that time and to us today.  if they did not obey God, who would?  it seems harsh to deal a death penalty for not keeping a physical sabbath - but it represented to the rest of the world the plan of salvation.  the thousand year reign of God on this earth - called the milleneum.  if our world is 6000 years from present creation - then the last 1000 will be 7000.  there's plan and pattern to everything our Master does.

[pianistimo]

also, there's a blessing that goes with the keeping of the sabbath in isaiah 58:13 'if becuase of the sabbath you turn your foot from doing your own pleasure on My holy day, and call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable, and shall honor it, desisting from your own ways, from seeking your own pleasure, and speaking your own word, then you will take delight in the Lord, and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth (rulership); and i will feed you with the heritage of jacob (grafts anyone in who listens) your father, for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.'