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Chopin etudes - their name (Read 4119 times)

Offline lisztener

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Chopin etudes - their name
« on: June 30, 2006, 09:37:45 PM »
Some of the etudes of chopin has names, for example revolutionairy etc.  Who named these, and is there names for all of the etudes (I've only heard a few).

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Sheet music to download and print: Etudes by Chopin



Offline sportsmonster

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Re: Chopin etudes - their namn
«Reply #1 on: July 02, 2006, 07:41:58 AM »
I have never heared names for all of the etudes, and doubt that there is. But i seems to be the more famuous etudes that have names: Tristesse(op10 no3) black key etude(op 10 no 5), revolutionary(op10 no12), butterfly(op 25no9) , areolian harp(op25no1) , winter wind(op25no11) and The ocean(op25no12). I have known the etudes for many years, but the names that is listed here are the only ones i know about. And have never heared any other names on Chopins 27 etudes ( i think)...maybee i forgot to mention one. 
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Offline kony

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Re: Chopin etudes - their namn
«Reply #2 on: July 02, 2006, 08:53:44 AM »
3rds, 6ths, octaves, the bee (op25 no2), wrong notes (op25 no5). these are the only ones i know of, other than those already listed.

Offline Kassaa

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Re: Chopin etudes - their namn
«Reply #3 on: July 02, 2006, 09:21:27 AM »
The names given to the etudes should not be used, since Chopin was against naming his pieces. The names are given by critics from that time, or the audience maybe?
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Offline jas

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Re: Chopin etudes - their namn
«Reply #4 on: July 02, 2006, 11:52:53 AM »
I've heard 25/7 called the cello etude. I'd never heard the one about the bee. As Kassaa said, Chopin didn't name his works and got annoyed when other people did it, so they probably came about after his time.

Offline gymnopedist

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Re: Chopin etudes - their namn
«Reply #5 on: July 02, 2006, 11:58:38 AM »
I've heard people calling 10/4  "the torrent".
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Offline Kassaa

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Re: Chopin etudes - their namn
«Reply #6 on: July 02, 2006, 08:02:43 PM »
I've heard people calling 10/4  "the torrent".
Which is completely retarded :\ . Chopin hated people giving names to his pieces.
Everything will pass, and the world will perish but the Waldstein Sonata will remain.

Offline houseofblackleaves

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Re: Chopin etudes - their namn
«Reply #7 on: July 03, 2006, 08:42:32 PM »
I've heard Triestesse, Black Key, Opera, Revolutionary, Aolean Harp/Shepard Boy, Bees, Wrong note, Thirds, Sixths, The Cello, The Butterfly, Octave, Winter Wind, Ocean.

Offline phil13

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Re: Chopin etudes - their namn
«Reply #8 on: July 04, 2006, 04:04:08 AM »
10/2-'Chromatique'

Phil

Offline ripstrike

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Re: Chopin etudes - their namn
«Reply #9 on: July 07, 2006, 02:59:25 PM »
Why has one of them been given the name "Wrong Note"?

Are there errors in it, or is it because of dissonance?

Offline rapmasterb

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Re: Chopin etudes - their namn
«Reply #10 on: July 14, 2006, 11:31:35 PM »
Op. 25 No. 5 because the opening section (which is repeated at the end) is highly chromatic and it sounds like the pianist is hitting wrong notes on every beat. It contrasts brilliantly with the lyrical middle section.

Offline lung7793

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Re: Chopin etudes - their namn
«Reply #11 on: July 18, 2006, 04:05:26 AM »
I think 25/5 should be named "the drunkard"...it sounds like the pianist is drunk!

Offline rapmasterb

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Re: Chopin etudes - their namn
«Reply #12 on: July 20, 2006, 08:22:19 PM »
op 25 no 6 should be called "the stoner" because it sounds like such a a stoner piece to me. Of course i have no idea how to explain that but i just think it sounds a little spaced out, free- flowing, impulsive. Also you could just picture some guy wacked out and going "oh man lets do it in thirds cause they're so ... like .... WOW". I do mean that in the best possible way cause i love the piece.

Offline maxy

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Re: Chopin etudes - their name
«Reply #13 on: July 20, 2006, 10:35:38 PM »
I think op 10#1 should be called "left cross" and op 10#2 "right uppercut".  Put together they constitute a deadly combo that can knock down most pianists.   ;D

Offline rapmasterb

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Re: Chopin etudes - their name
«Reply #14 on: July 22, 2006, 10:51:52 AM »
In that case op. 25 no. 11 should be called "atom bomb"  ;)

Offline maxy

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Re: Chopin etudes - their name
«Reply #15 on: July 22, 2006, 05:09:38 PM »
In that case op. 25 no. 11 should be called "atom bomb"  ;)

Agreed if it's about the audience.  25-11 does a lot of effect on the crowd.

But 10#2 is harder on the pianist  :P 

Offline lol_nl

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Re: Chopin etudes - their name
«Reply #16 on: July 22, 2006, 05:19:17 PM »
From http://www.ourchopin.com/

Etudes Op. 10, 1829-1833: [No. 1-12]
    no 1 C major
    no 2 A minor (Chromatic)
    no 3 E major (Tristesse)
    no 4 C# minor (Torrent)
    no 5 Gb major (Black keys)
    no 6 Eb minor
    no 7 C major (Toccata)
    no 8 F major
    no 9 F minor
    no 10 Ab major
    no 11 Eb major
    no 12 C minor (Revolutionary)
Etudes Op. 25, 1835-1837: [No. 13-24]
    no 1 Ab major (Aeolian harp)
    no 2 F minor (Bee)
    no 3 F major (Cartwheel)
    no 4 A minor
    no 5 E minor (Wrong notes)
    no 6 G# minor (Thirds)
    no 7 C# minor (Cello)
    no 8 Db major (Sixths)
    no 9 Gb major (Butterfly)
    no 10 B minor (Octaves)
    no 11 A minor (Winter wind)
    no 12 C minor (Ocean)

Offline persona

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Re: Chopin etudes - their name
«Reply #17 on: July 23, 2006, 05:56:17 AM »
What about Beethoven's Piano Sonatas? Did he name them or were they named afterwards?

Offline Kassaa

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Re: Chopin etudes - their name
«Reply #18 on: July 23, 2006, 07:18:19 AM »
What about Beethoven's Piano Sonatas? Did he name them or were they named afterwards?
Some of them, like the Pathetique and Hammerklavier were named by himself. But the Appassionata for instance was named like that by a publisher who published a four-hand version of the sonata.
Everything will pass, and the world will perish but the Waldstein Sonata will remain.

Offline richy321

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Re: Chopin etudes - their name
«Reply #19 on: July 23, 2006, 04:49:32 PM »
It is well known than Chopin didn't attach titles to the Etudes, and he may well have been opposed to others doing so, but I feel that it is our prerogative to do so if we find it at all useful.  It useful to quickly refer to particular etudes.  It is useful as a means to denote the character of the pieces in musical discussions as well.  As a matter of fact, I wish more etudes had descriptive titles, so that it might suggest the mood or image that Chopin might have had in mind.  For example, Opus 10, nos. 6, 8, 9, 10 could benefit from titles.

Incidentally, does anyone have ideas as to the "meaning" or musical character of 10/6?  Since no technical issue is obvious, I must assume that the challenge is interpretive.  I have often wondered if Wagner was influenced by this piece when he wrote Brunnhilde's scene "War es so smachlich" in Die Walkure.  If so, it might suggest some interpretive ideas for us at this vantage point in musical history. 

In the same way, I feel that Opus 25/7 which some have dubbed "The Cello" should be called the "Norma" instead because it definitely recalls the cello solo in the prelude to the last act of Norma.  I don't believe I've ever seen this attested to in print, but the similarity is striking, and it may influence the way I work the piece, i.e., the Bel Canto influence in Chopin, when I get to it.

Titles are useful.

Rich Y     

 

 

Offline maxy

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Re: Chopin etudes - their name
«Reply #20 on: July 23, 2006, 05:32:19 PM »

Titles are useful.

Rich Y     

 

 

Maybe, but Chopin himself did not name his études.  I think he meant it that way.  "Etudes": a cold name for pure musical gems.  They are just too good for any words as official title IMO.  "Butterfly"? ???  That is just weak.  "Tristesse"?  sounds cheezy.   "Wrong note"??  Yeah, sure, now I really want to play that. 

Obviously when talking between fellow piano fanatics, we will name the etudes in some sort of way.  I rarely talk about "Étude op 10#2 in a minor"as the "Étude op 10#2 in a minor", but I will talk a lot about the chromatic pregnant dog.  We also talk about the "octaves", double-thirds, sixths études, but these are not really titles. Just a plain description of the technical difficulties involved. 

Winter wind is currently the only title I find acceptable.

Let the musicologists fight for titles! 
 

Offline persona

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Re: Chopin etudes - their name
«Reply #21 on: July 24, 2006, 06:46:57 AM »
Thanx Kassa. Now, what about Moonlight?

(everyone else: sorry to beat about the bush  :P)

Offline rapmasterb

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Re: Chopin etudes - their name
«Reply #22 on: July 24, 2006, 04:24:09 PM »
Some of them, like the Pathetique and Hammerklavier were named by himself.

Pathetique was named by a publisher. Hammerklavier is just a misuse of his direction "fur das hammerkalvier" which he attached to several other sonatas. He intended neither of those names.

Offline moi_not_toi

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Re: Chopin etudes - their name
«Reply #23 on: July 24, 2006, 08:03:40 PM »
So, which Etude is named Opera?
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Offline richy321

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Re: Chopin etudes - their name
«Reply #24 on: July 24, 2006, 11:39:38 PM »
No etude is going to be called "Opera"  because that's so general it won't mean anything.  However, it would mean something musically to call 25/7 the "Norma" if, in fact, the association I suggested were valid, that is, if Chopin actually had the Cello solo from the opera in mind, because it would invoke the meditative mood of that passage.  It would also suggest the bel canto style in the ornamentation of the melody.

By the way, I hope it is not true that the 25/2 is commonly called the "Bee" hereabouts.  Say it ain't so!  That would be unfortunate, but it may reflect why this piece is played so trivially, as if it were just another "minute waltz".  In the literature this piece is said to evoke the delicate, gentle "song of a sleeping child" (Robert Schumann), whatever that might mean.  But a bee?  Surely the combination of a sleeping child and a bee cannot have happy results.

See, I think that as misguided as some names may be, it can facilitate discussion of the interpretation of the etudes.


Offline quasimodo

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Re: Chopin etudes - their name
«Reply #25 on: July 26, 2006, 02:31:42 AM »
See, I think that as misguided as some names may be, it can facilitate discussion of the interpretation of the etudes.

... or complicate it unnecessarily to the extent that the names aim at influencing the basic listener concerning the character of the piece.
Chopin's music (especially as it's displayed in the etudes) was very advanced for his period. For me, those names show the lack of understanding of that music at the time. People needed to hook up to reassuring references in order to understand the genius. They were still in the logic of Beethoven "figurative" music while Chopin's IMO was "evocative", pre-figuring impressionism.
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