why I support getting god out of PF

[ada]

moan, moan, pregnant dog, pregnant dog  .

Ok I have made my views clear about this before.

Can we please try and temper the religious rantings? Or at least keep god out of general discussion and  have a dedicated board for religious matters?

I do not believe in god. I do not come to PF to hear sermons or read slabs of text quoted from the bible.

If I did I would go to church or pick up my own copy of the bible.

I do not want to argue ad nauseum about the merits of christianity or whether god created the universe with a wave of his magic wand and I don't want to have to read these silly pointless discussions.

It seems this stuff is slipping into the most innocuous threads. If I see a thread about creationism I can choose to ignore it .

But why does "god this god that blah blah blah"crap have to creep into a thread about the US maintaining a presence in Iraq? Or about peoples' educational qualifications?

I am not advocating censorship but I think it would be really good if we could have a dedicated "religious board" for the god enthusiasts to have their discussions without driving the less godly among us up the wall.

It is actually quite offensive to have god stuffed down your throat all the time when you really want to read a discussion about US foreign policy, for example.

It would be considerate of other members to appreciate that not everyone comes to PF for a sermon.

Is it just me? Or does anyone else think we should keep religion out of general discussion?

[musik_man]

Perhaps you should try not clicking on religious topics.  It works pretty well.

[rlefebvr]

Religion and Politics in the same thread. Wow. My wife would kill me if she saw me responding to this.

So I won't

I will

I won't

I will

Naw, this is pointless...


 

[maul]

  Perhaps you should try not clicking on religious topics.  It works pretty well.

Perhaps you should actually read his post before you make a comment. Nonetheless, ada... turn off the computer.

[lisztisforkids]

moan, moan, pregnant dog, pregnant dog  .

Ok I have made my views clear about this before.

Can we please try and temper the religious rantings? Or at least keep god out of general discussion and  have a dedicated board for religious matters?

I do not believe in god. I do not come to PF to hear sermons or read slabs of text quoted from the bible.

If I did I would go to church or pick up my own copy of the bible.

I do not want to argue ad nauseum about the merits of christianity or whether god created the universe with a wave of his magic wand and I don't want to have to read these silly pointless discussions.

It seems this stuff is slipping into the most innocuous threads. If I see a thread about creationism I can choose to ignore it .

But why does "god this god that blah blah blah"crap have to creep into a thread about the US maintaining a presence in Iraq? Or about peoples' educational qualifications?

I am not advocating censorship but I think it would be really good if we could have a dedicated "religious board" for the god enthusiasts to have their discussions without driving the less godly among us up the wall.

It is actually quite offensive to have god stuffed down your throat all the time when you really want to read a discussion about US foreign policy, for example.

It would be considerate of other members to appreciate that not everyone comes to PF for a sermon.

Is it just me? Or does anyone else think we should keep religion out of general discussion?

 You actually have a point.... But you are really refering to one person here.. But many people like me refer Atheism as a religon as well, and I am kind of tired of seeing arguments on both sides in other topics. I guess you should just ask P******** to stop pouring out God is great in a thread about anything but God. But that also goes across the other side of the aisle, and yet to another side of the aisle. Meaning: I am also tired of Atheist posts, (although agreed to be a lot less annoying than other religous nuts here) but am also tired of bigoted radical politics. Even though I disagree with many of these arguments or statements, I think its important to respect others peoples views. If somebody thinks that God and US in Iraq are intertwined, than we should respect that view, as cuz many people outside of this forum also beleive in that opinion.

But I do agree there is a line from being rational to just plain annoying. IMO its really one person that you are refering to here....

[lisztisforkids]

I guess in short... Its free speech. You cant censor somebodys elses opinions because you disagree with them...

[keys]

I guess in short... Its free speech. You cant censor somebodys elses opinions because you disagree with them...

hear hear!

I am really unimpressed Ada - trying to limit free speech on the internet!? What are you, China? Exposing yourself to opposing view-points is good for you.. I think somebody needs to go read some JS Mill.

[timothy42b]

On any of the other forum sections I would agree.

This one is intended to be looser and threads go where they will.

It is not universal that every thread turns religious.  I do not think it is reasonable for us to limit all threads to preserve your delicate sensistivities.  Do what the rest of us do, scroll past the offensive parts. 

I would probably support a cap on the "words per post" count though.  <hee, hee> 

[ada]

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough. this isn't about censorship and I'm not trying to censor people from expressing their views. I don't believe in censorship and I think the lack of censorship is one of the good things about the internet.

I'm just suggesting an appropriate place be created for matters religious. What is wrong with that? Then the people who don't want talk about god don't have to go there, and the people who want to talk about piano or politics or general musing won't get ambushed by an evangelist.

And I do not intend to single one person out. If I were, can I make it clear the person I am not singling out is a very valuable member of this forum and I mostly enjoy reading their posts. This is not a personal attack nor is it intended to be.

And I'm sorry if I'm testy. I have just had a gutful of god.

[Waldszenen]

You're suggesting an appropriate place but this IS an appropriate place. Unless I'm much mistaken this section of the forum is called "Anything But Piano".

[brewtality]

You're suggesting an appropriate place but this IS an appropriate place. Unless I'm much mistaken this section of the forum is called "Anything But Piano".

I think Ada's problem is god making her way into threads that are not inherently religious. 

[gorbee natcase]

moan, moan, pregnant dog, pregnant dog .

Ok I have made my views clear about this before.

Can we please try and temper the religious rantings? Or at least keep god out of general discussion and have a dedicated board for religious matters?

I do not believe in god. I do not come to PF to hear sermons or read slabs of text quoted from the bible.

If I did I would go to church or pick up my own copy of the bible.

I do not want to argue ad nauseum about the merits of christianity or whether god created the universe with a wave of his magic wand and I don't want to have to read these silly pointless discussions.

It seems this stuff is slipping into the most innocuous threads. If I see a thread about creationism I can choose to ignore it .

But why does "god this god that blah blah blah"crap have to creep into a thread about the US maintaining a presence in Iraq? Or about peoples' educational qualifications?

I am not advocating censorship but I think it would be really good if we could have a dedicated "religious board" for the god enthusiasts to have their discussions without driving the less godly among us up the wall.

It is actually quite offensive to have god stuffed down your throat all the time when you really want to read a discussion about US foreign policy, for example.

It would be considerate of other members to appreciate that not everyone comes to PF for a sermon.

Is it just me? Or does anyone else think we should keep religion out of general discussion?

I agree with you. 100% But I don't think your going to make a blind bit of difference

[ahinton]

I think Ada's problem is god making her way into threads that are not inherently religious. 

At the risk of appearing to speak for "Ada" out of turn, I agree with this. I think that "Ada"'s concern appears also to relate specifically to the sheer extent to which religious matter is introduced into individual posts on topics which are not, in and of themselves, inherent ly religious.

"Ada" has made a perfectly understandable and valid point. Turning off the computer is not the answer; nor, as "Ada" has indicated, is censorhip the answer. Skimming over such text as falls into the category concerned is the answer; this should avoids most of the irritation that reading it verbatim might otherwise bring about.

Another problem which I suspect that "Ada" may perceive and which may increase the annoyance is that most if not all of the texts concerned are not merely "religiously" oriented but specifically biblical and Christian in content. There are, of course, other religious persuasions and, in any case, atheists are equally able to "preach sermons" supporting what they believe to be the importance of their cause. I imagine, therefore, that "Ada" dislikes this apparent lack of balance.

I have no problems with people bringing in various applications of their beliefs into topics that may not be inherently religious, provided that what is written can reasonably be accepted - even by those who do not share those beliefs - as relevant to the topic. At the same time, however, I do think that, if religious pursuit is really to exert a positive influence on the conduct of those who do it, those of religious persuasions might do well to indulge some consideration towards those who do not share their beliefs by not writing too much of that kind of material in posts on non-inherently-religious topics.

Lastly, let us remember that what "Ada" originally called for here was for attempts to be made to "temper" such writing...

Best,

Alistair

[mike_lang]

At the risk of appearing to speak for "Ada" out of turn, I agree with this. I think that "Ada"'s concern appears also to relate specifically to the sheer extent to which religious matter is introduced into individual posts on topics which are not, in and of themselves, inherent ly religious.

"Ada" has made a perfectly understandable and valid point. Turning off the computer is not the answer; nor, as "Ada" has indicated, is censorhip the answer. Skimming over such text as falls into the category concerned is the answer; this should avoids most of the irritation that reading it verbatim might otherwise bring about.

Another problem which I suspect that "Ada" may perceive and which may increase the annoyance is that most if not all of the texts concerned are not merely "religiously" oriented but specifically biblical and Christian in content. There are, of course, other religious persuasions and, in any case, atheists are equally able to "preach sermons" supporting what they believe to be the importance of their cause. I imagine, therefore, that "Ada" dislikes this apparent lack of balance.

I have no problems with people bringing in various applications of their beliefs into topics that may not be inherently religious, provided that what is written can reasonably be accepted - even by those who do not share those beliefs - as relevant to the topic. At the same time, however, I do think that, if religious pursuit is really to exert a positive influence on the conduct of those who do it, those of religious persuasions might do well to indulge some consideration towards those who do not share their beliefs by not writing too much of that kind of material in posts on non-inherently-religious topics.

Lastly, let us remember that what "Ada" originally called for here was for attempts to be made to "temper" such writing...

Best,

Alistair

I agree, and would like to suggest that a more immediate issue that we find here is that of relevance to the topic.  I often see these "rants", and they have absolutely nothing in common with the original topic.  It is just as on the threads where people ask things such as "What is your favorite composer, your favorite piece by that composer, and why?", and the posters proceed to give a top ten list of composers and of the doctoral repertoire, without explanation.  The problem is adherence to the original topic, and that of indulging digressions.  It is alright, I would say, to have these "religious rants" on the non-piano board, but only if the thread is labeled as having that theme.

On a separate note, it is inconsiderate to impose one's own religious beliefs (in this sermonic form) on a global forum where people hail from all different cultures, creeds, and religious practices.

Best,
ML

[mike_lang]

P.S.

Is this what you mean?:

there's a blessing that goes with the keeping of the sabbath in isaiah 58:13 'if becuase of the sabbath you turn your foot from doing your own pleasure on My holy day, and call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable, and shall honor it, desisting from your own ways, from seeking your own pleasure, and speaking your own word, then you will take delight in the Lord, and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth (rulership); and i will feed you with the heritage of jacob (grafts anyone in who listens) your father, for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.'

[jas]

I agree, and would like to suggest that a more immediate issue that we find here is that of relevance to the topic.  I often see these "rants", and they have absolutely nothing in common with the original topic.  It is just as on the threads where people ask things such as "What is your favorite composer, your favorite piece by that composer, and why?", and the posters proceed to give a top ten list of composers and of the doctoral repertoire, without explanation.  The problem is adherence to the original topic, and that of indulging digressions.  It is alright, I would say, to have these "religious rants" on the non-piano board, but only if the thread is labeled as having that theme.

On a separate note, it is inconsiderate to impose one's own religious beliefs (in this sermonic form) on a global forum where people hail from all different cultures, creeds, and religious practices.

Best,
ML

I agree with this. I just skip religious posts, not just because I'm agnostic and do slightly object to having it come up in almost every discussion I have here, but because they tend to be long-winded and mind-numbingly boring. I wouldn't ask people to stop making them, though, because it's up to them what they add to a thread, as long as it's within the topic. Or at least within a mile radius of the topic, which usually seems to be closer to the case.
I can see your point, ada, but I'd say just skip them. You can't really do anything about it.

Jas

[ahinton]

I don't want to make her a foe
But must say to "pianistimo"
The things that you're li'ble
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so...

Best,

Alistair

[timothy42b]

Another problem which I suspect that "Ada" may perceive and which may increase the annoyance is that most if not all of the texts concerned are not merely "religiously" oriented but specifically biblical and Christian in content. Best,

Alistair

That is an interesting observation and one that I had missed.  This is probably because though I normally disagree with the evangelistic content of the proseletyzers, I remain Christian myself and am insufficiently sensitive.

I have therefore been trying to recall the last time any member of other than a fundamentalist Christian denomination attempted to bring a religious discussion toward me. 

I'm still at zero.  In my experience it doesn't happen.  I'm a little curious about that.  Many is the time I've had the knock on the door, to find a freshly scrubbed nicely dressed Mormon or Jehovah's Witness eager to save my soul.  The number of Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jainists, etc., etc., who've ever done that, or ever brought religious belief into a forum thread, seems to be none. 

Why is that, do you suppose?  Simple manners? 

[mephisto]

I don't want to make her a foe
But must say to "pianistimo"
The things that you're li'ble
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so...

Best,

Alistair

Legendary

[phil13]

Legendary

Seconded 

Phil

[ted]

I find it relatively easy to ignore religion,  but I agree with michael_ langlois that the complete non sequitur, not necessarily religious, and in some cases a total inability to think logically, are much more annoying and have tended to spoil several promising discussions here in the past, which is a pity.

[rimv2]

moan, moan, pregnant dog, pregnant dog  .

Ok I have made my views clear about this before.

Can we please try and temper the religious rantings? Or at least keep god out of general discussion and  have a dedicated board for religious matters?

I do not believe in god. I do not come to PF to hear sermons or read slabs of text quoted from the bible.

If I did I would go to church or pick up my own copy of the bible.

I do not want to argue ad nauseum about the merits of christianity or whether god created the universe with a wave of his magic wand and I don't want to have to read these silly pointless discussions.

It seems this stuff is slipping into the most innocuous threads. If I see a thread about creationism I can choose to ignore it .

But why does "god this god that blah blah blah"crap have to creep into a thread about the US maintaining a presence in Iraq? Or about peoples' educational qualifications?

I am not advocating censorship but I think it would be really good if we could have a dedicated "religious board" for the god enthusiasts to have their discussions without driving the less godly among us up the wall.

It is actually quite offensive to have god stuffed down your throat all the time when you really want to read a discussion about US foreign policy, for example.

It would be considerate of other members to appreciate that not everyone comes to PF for a sermon.

Is it just me? Or does anyone else think we should keep religion out of general discussion?

It's clear you need Jesus

[stevie]

or perhaps just a jolly good rodgering 

[johnny-boy]

I think Ada's problem is god making her way into threads that are not inherently religious. 

God is everywhere.

John

[BoliverAllmon]

moan, moan, pregnant dog, pregnant dog  .

Ok I have made my views clear about this before.

Can we please try and temper the religious rantings? Or at least keep god out of general discussion and  have a dedicated board for religious matters?

I do not believe in god. I do not come to PF to hear sermons or read slabs of text quoted from the bible.

If I did I would go to church or pick up my own copy of the bible.

I do not want to argue ad nauseum about the merits of christianity or whether god created the universe with a wave of his magic wand and I don't want to have to read these silly pointless discussions.

It seems this stuff is slipping into the most innocuous threads. If I see a thread about creationism I can choose to ignore it .

But why does "god this god that blah blah blah"crap have to creep into a thread about the US maintaining a presence in Iraq? Or about peoples' educational qualifications?

I am not advocating censorship but I think it would be really good if we could have a dedicated "religious board" for the god enthusiasts to have their discussions without driving the less godly among us up the wall.

It is actually quite offensive to have god stuffed down your throat all the time when you really want to read a discussion about US foreign policy, for example.

It would be considerate of other members to appreciate that not everyone comes to PF for a sermon.

Is it just me? Or does anyone else think we should keep religion out of general discussion?

Maybe we should also have a Hanon board so all the Hanon lovers can rant about how great Hanon is.

Also a thread for the dedication about where the muscles that move the fingers are actually located.

maybe a board dedicated to DaSDC?

maybe a board dedicated to genius and other forms of randomness? randomly speaking of course.

the list could go on People have differences of opinions about alot of different things. to seperate them all is just stupid. I don't care what you say it is censorship. Now I am not just saying this because I am a Christian. I apply this to everyone. I think Howard Stern and all the other shock jocks should be given the same privileges and rights.

[ada]

or perhaps just a jolly good rodgering

That is grossly misogynist highly offensive and most un-PC but I defend your right to say it 

Just don't preach at me 

[ahinton]

It's clear you need Jesus

To do what?

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

God is everywhere.

So you say - but I think that, the actual wording of the thread title notwithstanding, it is to be assumed that what was meant by its initiator was "why I support getting references to God out of PF" - and, again, even that seems subsequently to have been tempered into "why I support getting off-topic references to God out of PF".

I just think that "Ada"'s principal concern was to encourage those who might otherwise be tempted to include swathes of religion-oriented text into threads that are ostensibly on non-religius topics to desist from so doing, in order to limit (a) any offence or irritation that it might cause and (b) the risk of it clouding any of the issues under discussion.

That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

I would just as easily accept similar discouragement of long texts about fingerings, Chopin/Godowsky studies or (God[!] help us) "The World's Hardest Piece" appearing in threads about religious topics on a forum dedicated to religious discussions.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

or perhaps just a jolly good rodgering 

I thought that a jolly ro(d)ger was a flag...

Best,

Alistair

[stevie]

That is grossly misogynist highly offensive and most un-PC but I defend your right to say it 

Just don't preach at me 

you shouldnt be offended, i am rather wonderful.

I thought that a jolly ro(d)ger was a flag...

Best,

Alistair

not sure about the flag, but i can provide the flag pole.

[pianistimo]

blows trumpet loudly.  disappears.  (i am taking on split personality - ofm1469and others like bob).  ada, i thought about randomly leaving since you were so kind to do so a few months back.  but, then, after you left i missed you .  was actually quite glad you came back.  u see, when a christian attempts to tell people about God - they feel they failed if the person turns around and walks away disgruntled.  so, then - think - hmm.  must be more discreet with ada.  must say polite things and avoid discussion of bible and all with ada.  so - p urposely i don't follow u around on threads and say 'hey, ada - can you spare a long paragraph?'

now, about leaving.  how much will you pay me?

ps  i've never gone door to door.  i've never sold the gospel like medicine.  only occasionally i'll argue with scripture because that 's my 'sword.'  u know how music makes u feel all strong and powerful - like ur superman/woman when u learn something difficult.  say the 'waldstein.'  and, then u go around playing it for everyone.  well, the gospel is similar - u suddenly find that u have 'peace that passes all understanding.'  and, u want to share it because it's a more peaceful way of existing.  it gives u fortitude and strength that u didn't have before.

[keys]

Maybe we should also have a Hanon board so all the Hanon lovers can rant about how great Hanon is.

Also a thread for the dedication about where the muscles that move the fingers are actually located.

maybe a board dedicated to DaSDC?

maybe a board dedicated to genius and other forms of randomness? randomly speaking of course.

the list could go on People have differences of opinions about alot of different things. to seperate them all is just stupid. I don't care what you say it is censorship. Now I am not just saying this because I am a Christian. I apply this to everyone. I think Howard Stern and all the other shock jocks should be given the same privileges and rights.

Good point.

Also, US foreign policy is hardly religiously innocuous.. Sharia and all of that.

[ahinton]

you shouldnt be offended, i am rather wonderful.

"Ada" didn't claim to be offended but that you had written something offensive - which isn't necessarily the same thing.

i am rather wonderful.

And modest with it, as we all note; I'm sure that "Ada" is especially delighted to be informed as to how wonderful you claim to be...

not sure about the flag, but i can provide the flag pole.

And I suppose you'll expect someone to do the pole dancing, right? Well, let's hope that no one asks you to "provide" either...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

blows trumpet loudly.

Is that the last one - as in the Book of Revelation? (not that I knew that you played the trumpet as well as the piano in any case)...

disappears.  (i am taking on split personality - ofm1469and others like bob).

But why? No one has asked to to, have they?

when a christian attempts to tell people about God - they feel they failed if the person turns around and walks away disgruntled.

But why? You could talk to someone about Liszt and, if they didn't care for his music beforehand and still don't after you've talked to them, you words would similarly have fallen on stony ground - but why would this necessarily mean that you, personally, have "failed"? Not only that, why would a Christian have failed in the circumstance you describe any more than a Buddhist, a Jain, a Hindu, a Jew, a Sikh, a Muslim, etc.?

now, about leaving.  how much will you pay me?

How much will who pay you to do something that (as far as I can tell) no one has asked you to do?...

i've never gone door to door.

I don't think anyone has even assumed, let alone actually suggested, that you have done this.

i've never sold the gospel like medicine.

What? Do you really have door-to-door sales people hawking pharmaceuticals in your area?

only occasionally i'll argue with scripture because that 's my 'sword.'  u know how music makes u feel all strong and powerful - like ur superman/woman when u learn something difficult.  say the 'waldstein.'  and, then u go around playing it for everyone.  well, the gospel is similar

Well, you certainly won't catch me trying to argue with someone who perceives the Christian gospels to be synonymous with the "Waldstein"!

u suddenly find that u have 'peace that passes all understanding.'  and, u want to share it because it's a more peaceful way of existing.  it gives u fortitude and strength that u didn't have before.

If this is what being a Christian does for you, then I am glad. I really mean that - I'm not being at all sarcastic here. But it won't do it for everyone, nor can it reasonably be expected to - although, as I've already indicated, when you find people for whom it doesn't, that is not representative of any kind of "failure" on your part.

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

thanks for understanding, alistair.  i think ada really is more tolerant than suspected, too.  and, i take the points from both of u.  i'll try to limit my points and reign in my posts.

[thalbergmad]

now, about leaving.  how much will you pay me?

$5000.

Thal

[johnny-boy]

$5000.

Thal

I'll leave for $3,000.

John

[ahinton]

This thread was about support for getting God out of PF. Now it's turned into an auction for getting PF members out of it. Now I'll leave any argument about Jesus and the moneychangers out of this, since that's well off my territory and I do at least try not to get out of my depth, but I cannot help at least thinking about that, since I've been prompted by the recent "highest bidder" deals for reducing PF's membership numbers.

Nils won't be too happy about this, will he?! He might even ban people from leaving the forum!

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I'll leave for $3,000.

John

I can only afford to get rid of Pianistimo this month. Maybe next month.

Gotta pay for me holiday this month.

Thal

[ahinton]

I can only afford to get rid of Pianistimo this month. Maybe next month.

Gotta pay for me holiday this month.

Thal

Are you sure that you can even afford that? After all, there's that pèlerinage à Clacton avec l'Américaine followed by a joint trek to The Warehouse in November for a sequence of cycles - you need to make sure that you've also saved sufficient funds to pay for that, n'est-ce pas?

By the way, I'm not explaining that - YOU can!...

Best,

Alistair

[ada]

blows trumpet loudly. disappears. (i am taking on split personality - ofm1469and others like bob). ada, i thought about randomly leaving since you were so kind to do so a few months back. but, then, after you left i missed you . was actually quite glad you came back. u see, when a christian attempts to tell people about God - they feel they failed if the person turns around and walks away disgruntled. so, then - think - hmm. must be more discreet with ada. must say polite things and avoid discussion of bible and all with ada. so - p urposely i don't follow u around on threads and say 'hey, ada - can you spare a long paragraph?'

now, about leaving. how much will you pay me?

Dear Pianistimo

We've agreed to disagree in the past and as I've said before, like George W Bush and Osama bin Laden I think we spookily have as much in common as we are different.

Thanks for taking my gripe to heart.

Please don't leave PF, especially on account of me. I would feel terrible if you did  

Anyhow enough niceness.

Onwards

[johnny-boy]

I can only afford to get rid of Pianistimo this month. Maybe next month.

Gotta pay for me holiday this month.

Thal

How 'bout the budget plan? $50 for a week, $150 for a month, etc.

John

[pianistimo]

ok.  it's a deal.  now u can bet i'll be harrassing u in november.  and, alistair.  you'll both be sorry.

[johnny-boy]

ok.  it's a deal.  now u can bet i'll be harrassing u in november.  and, alistair.  you'll both be sorry.

No Pianistimo, that was my prices I was quoting to get rid of me.   I enjoy reading your comments.

Best, John

[pianistimo]

i was talking about thal's offer of $5000.  no less.  (gotta pay for my trip, u know)

[penguinlover]

I'm glad this ended on a friendly note.  I was getting quite concerned there for a while.

[penguinlover]

Guess I should have headed the PF warning and read the new posts!

[pianistimo]

thal's been thinking about this quite a bit.  he's been quiet for hours.  it's only $5000., thal.  enough to complete a new wardrobe and still fly to london.  what's this about the 'warehouse.'  is this a morgue or something?  should i be fearful?

**don't think too hard on this one - my kids don't like me travelling more than a 50 mile radius.  i'd think i'd died and went to the kingdom if i actually took a vacation.  been working on hubby for a trip to las vegas or something.  if u don't gamble - the buffets are practically free.  the kids like circus circus and treasure island.  we haven't seen the eiffel tower (this is my idea of seeing the world w/out a passport).  we did see the luxor and took the boat ride last time (and the elevator ride which takes u to the tombs).  if i remember right, the last time we went - the white tigers didn't want to come out - so we waited endlessly for the time they were supposed to and come to find out they had gotten beaten for eating the trainer.  (just kidding about beaten.  i think when the fellow was in the hospital - or before, he told people that if anything happened to him with the tigers, not to punish them as they were wild animals).

[thalbergmad]

How 'bout the budget plan? $50 for a week, $150 for a month, etc.

John

0% APR.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

thal's been thinking about this quite a bit.  he's been quiet for hours.  it's only $5000., thal.  enough to complete a new wardrobe and still fly to london. 

Please come in the first 2 weeks of September, coz I is going to Greenland.

If you are looking for somewhere to stay, there is a nice Bed & Breakfast in Bath.

Send an e mail to sorabji-archive@lineone.net for further details.

Bye

Thal