Anyone heard Pogorelich recently?

[sevencircles]

I know people that some people say that Ivo Pogorelich may be the only pianist out there right now that can be compared to players like Horowitz and Michelangeli.

I think I can agree with that (Volodos can sometimes be very musical too)

Anyone heard Pogo  play recently?

[maxy]

it seems his brother Lovro is getting more attention now.

[minor9th]

I heard him last year. He played some glacial Beethoven, Rachmaninov, and Scriabin, then woke up and played the daylights out of three Liszt Transcendental Etudes, then Islamy for an encore. He shaved head was a bit alarming at first--I dodn't realize it was him until he sat down!

[sevencircles]

I heard him last year. He played some glacial Beethoven, Rachmaninov, and Scriabin, then woke up and played the daylights out of three Liszt Transcendental Etudes, then Islamy for an encore. He shaved head was a bit alarming at first--I dodn't realize it was him until he sat down!

What works did he play?

I havenīt heard his brother, is his style similar to Ivoīs?

[minor9th]

What works did he play?

I havenīt heard his brother, is his style similar to Ivoīs?

Hmmm...you're testing my memory! It was Beethoven Op. 79 and 111, then after intermission a Moments Musicaux by Rachmaninov (don't recall the opus number), a Fantasy by Scriabin (he played those two without a pause at a ridiculously slow tempo--the two sort of melded together!), then the Liszt Etudes, and Islamey.

[orlandopiano]

I know people that some people say that Ivo Pogorelich may be the only pianist out there right now that can be compared to players like Horowitz and Michelangeli.

Who are those people? 

And what is so profoundly brilliant about Pogorelich that not one other pianist can compare?

[sevencircles]

And what is so profoundly brilliant about Pogorelich that not one other pianist can compare?

His ear for details and tonal colors and dynamic contrasts at the right moment.

When you listen to Pogo you know that he has studied every detail very carefully.

Plus he never plays just for showoff and flash like so many other players.

He plays fast when he feels that it suits the music but he may also play a work really slowly even though the composer intended it to be played twice as fast.

[e60m5]

His ear for details and tonal colors and dynamic contrasts at the right moment.

When you listen to Pogo you know that he has studied every detail very carefully.

Plus he never plays just for showoff and flash like so many other players.

He plays fast when he feels that it suits the music but he may also play a work really slowly even though the composer intended it to be played twice as fast.

I hardly think he is incomparable in this respect.

[jamie_liszt]

Ivo is a brilliant pianist!

[infectedmushroom]

Pogorelich is a brilliant pianist!.. He sure is one of my favorite pianist's living today.


Well, why not: here a great video performance of Ivo playing Chopin's Prelude Op. 28 No. 24:

&mode=related&search=fledermaus%20lang

[bernhard]

Pogorelich is a brilliant pianist!.. He sure is one of my favorite pianist's living today.


Well, why not: here a great video performance of Ivo playing Chopin's Prelude Op. 28 No. 24:

&mode=related&search=fledermaus%20lang

Er...

This link actually bring us to Lang Lang (a pianist who is halfway between Liberace and Victor Borge. What a great comedian! It looked by his facial expression that the bench - rather than haveing a safety-belt, one of Borgeīs favourite routines - had some hard cilindrical object . The only thing more hilarious than Lang Lang was the stone faces of the orchestra members behind him, gritting their teeth in suffering - I guess they did not realise it was a comedy routine ).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[mike_lang]

And what is so profoundly brilliant about Pogorelich that not one other pianist can compare?

The fact that he was labeled as such by Argerich.

Best,
ML

[pianistimo]

pogorelich is a much different type of performer.  he is serious and hardly expresses things with his face.  but, he does tip his head back occasionally.  personally, i find porogrelich easier to watch - but lang, lang has some 'excitement' to his playing. 

pogorelich seems to use a much better piano technique.  if you watch lang-lang, you'll see that often he utilizes that frozen up-wrist that locks into place to do octaves.  with pogo you see the flatter wrist and hand working together.  it's a looser way of playing and one that will not end up with carpel tunnels if i understand correctly.  pogorelich can play very fast (thinking of scarlatti here) repeated notes, etc. with minimal movement.  his interpretations are never 'flashy' - but 'stunning.' 

if i were to chose to see a performance, as a pianist, i would pick pogorelich.  the modern audience that goes to see lang-lang probably is made up of less people who are professional pianists - and more amateurs.  i know this sounds harsh - but it's true - he's performing a sort of magic show and pianists that have something in mind they want to hear go for pogorelich because he isn't out to 'capture the audience' in the same way.  in fact - he uses quietness.  silence at times. 

[infectedmushroom]

Er...

This link actually bring us to Lang Lang (a pianist who is halfway between Liberace and Victor Borge. What a great comedian! It looked by his facial expression that the bench - rather than haveing a safety-belt, one of Borgeīs favourite routines - had some hard cilindrical object . The only thing more hilarious than Lang Lang was the stone faces of the orchestra members behind him, gritting their teeth in suffering - I guess they did not realise it was a comedy routine ).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Oops, my bad!!


Here is the performance of Pogorelich, of Chopin's Prelude Op. 28 No. 24... I think it's a great performance!

[orlandopiano]

His ear for details and tonal colors and dynamic contrasts at the right moment.

When you listen to Pogo you know that he has studied every detail very carefully.

So he's the only pianist in the world who does this?

[stevie]

pogorelich seems to use a much better piano technique. 

WRONG

pogo's prelude 24 is stunningly intense, i love it

but ..

The fact that he was labeled as such by Argerich.

Best,
ML

i think she was just talking about other piansits in that one chopin competition?

[mike_lang]

but ..
i think she was just talking about other piansits in that one chopin competition?

When he was cut in the first round, she declared that Pogorelich was a genius and resigned from the jury.

ML

[stevie]

When he was cut in the first round, she declared that Pogorelich was a genius and resigned from the jury.

ML

yes, but at that time horowitz and cziffra was still alive, pogo aint by any stretch of the imagination above those.

[pianistimo]

so u think, stevie, that pogorelich's piano technique is more self-made?  maybe ur right.  from a distance, he seemed to have more of an aura of relaxation - but perhaps, now that i think about it - a few sections of octaves he might have had wrists-up.  why do u think pianists do this wrist -up thing?  locking it in place.  to me, it is a bad bad idea.   a professional pianist must know that they don't want carpel tunnels. 

i don't think he would use his wrist at the same degree as lang-lang.  if u look at the tape of lang-lang, it is quite dramatic (the angle).  are pogorelich's hands bigger?  i think they are.  he doesn't seem to use quite that much of an angle if he uses much.

on crits of his dvd of chopin, pogorelich was criticized for sitting too ram-rod straight, not using enough of his body in his playing ( i did notice he either was straight up or leaning back).  he does seem much stiffer bodily (but relaxed arm/hand/finger) than lang-lang - but it comes off as sincere.  i hear also, from the crits that some like horowitz's scarlatti more - but when i heard pogo - i liked his a lot.  he can get stunning - but to me never flashy for 'flashy sake.'  i think his general demeanor toward the piano is much different than lang-lang.

also, my own teacher uses way less of the 'use the body motions' (except for lean forward = louder / lean back = naturally softer) and gets really good sound out of the piano.  it's like efficiency to not move much else on the body and get more long term playing out of it.  during my first lesson - i played something and allowed my wrist to come up first and fingertips last.  i knew lessons were going to be different than my lessons of 20 years ago because he sort of made this feminine gesture mimicking me (i thought he was going to stand up and dance or something) and then said something like 'that is an unnecessary movement.'  then proceeded to start eliminating all the movements that were not actually making a sound difference.  u'd be surprised how many of them people use.  possibly as connectors for the next hand placement - but, when u play low to the keys- ur sort of using the 'dead fish flop' anyway.

[sevencircles]

So he's the only pianist in the world who does this?

No, but but he propably does it better then any other pianist out there right now.

Comparing Lang Lang to Pogorelich is like comparing icecream to a great red wine.

I donīt think I have to mention that if Lang lang:s playing is cheap ice Cream then Pogoīs must be like an expensive Red Wine.

In other words "you canīt really compare them!"

[kreso]

I'm from Croatia and he is our greatest pianist in the history. His brother Lovro is teacher at  Zagreb Music Academy and pianist also but he is not so great like Ivo-he force the sound very much and he canot play with so many colors and shades like Ivo can..
Ivo is very special pianist-he thinks that playing of the piano is his "job"-he takes piano very serious and practice a lot (when he is not on the tour he practice for 12 hours..) Now he plays all the compositions twice slower but not because he canot play in the right tempo-he tries to create more and more colors and shades of the sound and he gives different meaning (but also great playing) of popular things. He played them on different and genius way..
About the program- he is now playin Rach 2nd and Prokofiev 3rd  concertos.
He had recital last year in Croatia (I wasn't there  ):
Chopin Nocturnes op.62/1 and op.55/1 and Sonata in b minor op.58 no.3
Second half: Scriabin Sonata no.4, Rachmaninov Sonata no.2 in b flat minor op.36 (no encores)

His past program was: Beethoven Sonatas op.78 and op.111__Scriabin Two poems op.32 and Sonata-Fantasia in g sharp minor op.19 and Liszt TE no.5,8,10 (encores where Rach Moment musicaux no.6 and Islamey)

Beethoven Sonatas op.31/2 and op.90__Rachmaninov 6 Moments Musicaux op.16 (encore Islamey)

He also sorted program_Beeth op.78,op.111, Rach op.16/1, Scriabin Sonata no.2 and Liszt 3 TEs..

I just hope that he will recorded something of these program for DG..

[pianistimo]

thanks for sharing that!

[stevie]

so u think, stevie, that pogorelich's piano technique is more self-made?  maybe ur right. 

um, all i think is that lang lang has better technique

by this, i mean that he can play faster..simply

its useless comparing techniques in any other way, because then subjective musicality comes into play

[cloches_de_geneve]

Ok, this must sound heretic to you guys on this thread.  In my view he is pianistically stunning, I agree with that, but musically, his range is limited. I find his interpretation of the classics (Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven) horrifying - empty, glacial, artificial, full of mannerisms.

[infectedmushroom]

Ok, this must sound heretic to you guys on this thread.  In my view he is pianistically stunning, I agree with that, but musically, his range is limited. I find his interpretation of the classics (Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven) horrifying - empty, glacial, artificial, full of mannerisms.

Beethoven you said?

I never heard a better performance of Fur Elise than this one.

[sevencircles]

by this, i mean that he can play faster..simply

its useless comparing techniques in any other way, because then subjective musicality comes into play

What about playing clean and even?

I find his interpretation of the classics (Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven) horrifying - empty, glacial, artificial, full of mannerisms.

I agree that Mozart and Haydn isnīt his strongest side but I like the Beethoven I heard him play.

Who do you consider the greatest Beethoven interpreter out there?

One of the best things about Ivo is that there is a certain surprise factor when he plays.

Sometimes he plays very slow and sometimes like he has fire in his fingers.

You can never be really sure about how he will play a piece.

He is a bit like Gould in that way.

[stevie]

What about playing clean and even?

this is a byproduct of speed

however fast you can play clean and even, you can play a little faster while losing cleanness and evenness.

[mike_lang]

It appears that Pogorelich will be giving a recital at Carnegie soon - Chopin and Schumann.

Best,
Michael

[pianistimo]

hmmm. how to get there?  bus?  west chester.  free ticket?     ok.  i'll pay for the ticket.  just need a ride. 

[kreso]

It appears that Pogorelich will be giving a recital at Carnegie soon - Chopin and Schumann.

Best,
Michael

Where did you found that information? Do you know maybe what he will play by Chopin and Schumann?

[mike_lang]

Where did you found that information? Do you know maybe what he will play by Chopin and Schumann?

It is in the latest New Yorker.  Sorry, it is actually the Metropolitan Museum on October 26th.  He will play the Schumann Symphonic Etudes and Chopin's B minor Sonata, as well as two nocturnes.

Best,
Michael

[demented cow]

Thanx for the link to Pogo's Chopin 28/24. I especially like the pianissimo section. From this and other recordings, he seems to have as big a dynamic range as anybody I know of.

Does anybody like Pogo's Schumann Toccata? It's my favorite (more than Horowitz, Gilels, Barere, Lhevine). Not super-fast, but the articulation is so clear, esp. in the middle bit, and (subjectively speaking) he somehow breathes more life into it than the others I've heard.

P.S. Judging by his Chopin 28/24 & 3rd sonata on the 'tube, Pogo uses thumb under, which means he should be speed wall- and injury prone according to some forum members.

[BoliverAllmon]

Hmmm...you're testing my memory! It was Beethoven Op. 79 and 111, then after intermission a Moments Musicaux by Rachmaninov (don't recall the opus number), a Fantasy by Scriabin (he played those two without a pause at a ridiculously slow tempo--the two sort of melded together!), then the Liszt Etudes, and Islamey.

I saw this concert as well. He played very slow, but it was flowing. At the time I had not heard most of these pieces so I didn't know any better. I liked the Islamey, but the etudes were slow and quiet as well.

boliver

[avetma]

Anyone heard his Gaspard de la Nuit? It is unbeliveable!

[minor9th]

Anyone heard his Gaspard de la Nuit? It is unbeliveable!

I heard him play it live about 15 years ago--it was even more stunning than his CD, especially "Scarbo"--incredibly demonic and sinister.

[daniel patschan]

Guys, do you know what i just found out a few minutes ago ? I read a very recent interview with Pogorelich and he told the interviewer that he does not know who Lang Lang is ! I love this guy - he knows which things in life count and which are completely unimportant ! 

[avetma]

Guys, do you know what i just found out a few minutes ago ? I read a very recent interview with Pogorelich and he told the interviewer that he does not know who Lang Lang is ! I love this guy - he knows which things in life count and which are completely unimportant ! 

I don't believe that he really doesn't know who is Lang Lang. It is more like he knows who he is, but he thinks it's not important.

[ravel]

I heard him play it live about 15 years ago--it was even more stunning than his CD, especially "Scarbo"--incredibly demonic and sinister.

I cant tell you how jealous I am of you !!
Pogorelich's Gaspard ranks among the best... maybe THE best.....
and his Prokofiev Piano Sonata on that same disc is also one of the best  versions of that piece recorded... ( in my opinion)....
He is a master pianist... eccentric yes... but  one of the best ... and one of my favourites....
His Gaspard is absolute perfection....
love his liszt sonata and chopin scherzos tooo....
I also heard his rendering of Ravel's valses nobles et sentimentalis.... never heard it that slow....... BUT I must add... i got addicted to that recording........ it really brought a different side of that piece forward..........
Pogorelich is great....
Technically a master
Musically a master..
and i dont think Lang Lang has a better technique... even if he has ... it doesnt show up...  I  would like to see him play Gaspard or Prokofiev sonata no.6 ... the way Pogorelich did...  naaaaaah... its just not possible

[minor9th]

I've also heard him play the original version of Rachmaninov's Second Sonata--absolutely overwhelming, and on that concert he played Islamey as an encore! It too was staggering--faster and more powerful than he's playing it these days. I hope he gets through this current glacial stage and returns to his former self...which was plenty provocative and original!

[sevencircles]

Wierd thing about Pogorelich is the he propably could play any Romantic piece better then anyone else alive right now, if he wanted too. Superslow and wierd interpretations is sometimes  the way wants it.

One thing he always does though is spending plenty of time studying the pieces he is going to perform (Unlike Hamelin for instance).

He is like a modern day Gould in many ways except that he doesnīt spend a lot of time in the studio and I canīt imagine that any of his recordings are edited.

[daniel patschan]

In this interview that i read yesterday (itīs a very recent interview from a week ago or so) he said that he would produce new recordings very soon ! Rachmaninov and Beethoven ! I am greatly looking forward to buy this CD - another document of immortality. He is among the three best in the world today and one of the 10-15 greatest of the century.

In terms of technique: Even a comparison with Lang Lang is a joke. There are so many examples that show his manual perfection. He once said that technical/manual perfection is completely self-evident for him. Just check out how Ingolf (the so-called "legend") Wunder fights with the last movement of Chopin Opus 58 and then see how Pogorelich moves through the piece: with complete ease - the eyes almost closed. Like a ZEN master ! 

[sevencircles]

In this interview that i read yesterday (itīs a very recent interview from a week ago or so) he said that he would produce new recordings very soon ! Rachmaninov and Beethoven !

Could be better then great if he wants to.

You never know what you gonna get though.

Is it just me or could Pogo be Rachmaninovīs grandson.

The face, the mouth and the dedication (Countless hours of playing very slowly just to find the right tonal colors)

[daniel patschan]

Yes - thatīs a pretty good analogy ! He is also such a serious man as Rachmaninov was and he dedicates everything to the instrument. He said that it was not possible for him to do any more recordings during the first years after his wifeīs dead - he had to "reinvent himself" but now he is "back to his roots" (those were his words). He told the interviewer that Beethoven and Rachmaninov are the roots for him.

[tompilk]

When he was cut in the first round, she declared that Pogorelich was a genius and resigned from the jury.

ML

he was cut in the third round..., but yes - she did the right thing. He is genious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivo_Pogorelich
Tom