Isn't this an exaggeration?

[persona]

Check out the fingering suggested for Prelude Nº6 (from Bach's WTC Book 1) on this sheet music I came across. I know what non legato is, but don't you think it's a little exagerated to play all those D's with fingers 4 3 2 1 4 3 2 1? I'd like to hear from people who play this piece. Do you do it like this, or do you just use your pinky finger and forget about it?

[counterpoint]

What weird edition is this? 

You don't must take all for real, what is printed on paper!

Forget the legato bows, forget the non legato, forget the fingerings, forget the Allegro moderato and forget the piano marking. You should use Urtext editions, otherwise, you don't know, what the composer wants you to play.

By the way: no, I wouldn't change the finger on every note of the left hand. That's ridiculous.

[faulty_damper]

Considering the speed that this prelude should be played, alternating through 4 fingers is unnecessary unless the editor thinks prestissimo agitato would be both tempo and expression.  I would alternate between 1 and 2: 1 on the strong beat and 2 on the weak beat.  So 1,2,1,2 would be my fingering, but with slight movements of the wrist to control the speed.  I would not use 5 at all except for the shifts in note placement.

[lung7793]

I agree.  Bach only wrote the notes for his pieces, everything else is by the editor/publisher.  They're only suggestions.  That left hand fingering is ridiculous...why make it harder for yourself!!  My old teacher used to say alternating fingers on one repeating note helps keep them sounding even...I've never really had much use for that technique though.  Now if they are going very fast, that's a different story!

[persona]

I thought so. The Prelude Nº 1 in this edition is Allegro (tempo = 112)

[counterpoint]

I thought so. The Prelude Nº 1 in this edition is Allegro (tempo = 112)

That's funny!

Propably the name of the editor is Carl Czerny?

[alwaystheangel]

I would think that you always have to switch fingerings when playing a repeated note, (keeps things from getting "bangy" and Harsh)  At least that's how I've always been taught.  It's been beaten into me!

[persona]

Could anyone please direct me to a good edition of WTC on the internet? Because so far I could only find this one and others with no fingering at all...

[faulty_damper]

You won't be able to find a 'good edition'.

  Why do you need fingering?  Finger in a manner that is most comfortable.

[franz_]

Strange 'cauz I just started this P&F, so I have no experience of this piece at all, but I use my 3d finger, and the last one my 5th.

[counterpoint]

  Why do you need fingering?  Finger in a manner that is most comfortable.

Editions without fingerings are always the best.

If you have one with fingerings, it suggests to you, that the printed fingering is the best. But most printed fingerings are really unpianistic, and some do even contradict to the musical logic (phrasing, accentuation etc.)


Never do rely on printed fingerings!

[stevehopwood]

In the screen shot of the piece, notice the dynamic, phrasing, tempo and metronome marks?

Bach wrote none of these. They are all editorial suggestions. They may or may not be good ones, but none of them are Bach's.

Editors mid-way through the 20th century were obsessed with changing fingers on repeated notes, regardless of how unnecessary this was. I gues the edition is a very old one.

When buying copies of Bach's keyboard music, go for Urtext editions. These are well researched and go as close to the original manuscripts as possible. They also try to resolve the conflicts between the various extant copies of original manuscripts.

Steve 

[franz_]

I have the Peters editions, and in that point of view they are very good. No fingerings, no metronome time, almost no legato signs etc, no tempo marks. Just basic, what Bach wrote.

[barnowl]

Persona,

You're right. The fingering is crazy.

But fix your headline, por favor. There are two g's in exaggeration. Please don't take my comment as criticism. I think you're a South American (or at least live there) so your multi-language skills are far better than mine.

I don't even know the word for exaggeration in Spanish or Portugese or German, or  French, or Dutch, much less spell it correktly. However, as you can see, I'm an absolute  whiz in English. 

[persona]

barnowl:

Done. Thanx for the correction. I don't take it as a criticism (but I do find it kind of obsessive though  ). I am indeed from Argentina, which you may have deduced from my nick name (and I belive I mentioned it once). I take pride of the way I handle this other language, since I never speak it in my every-day life.
A correction made respectfully is nothing but a correction (let me bring to mind, there are no double letters in Spanish, we have what could be called a rational system of spelling our words, so it should sound logical for someone like me to have a little trouble with this chaotic language). However, I did find it quite offensive the time a fellow made fun of me for spelling "fisically" (from the Spanish word "fisicamente") in stead of "physically". I don't know, I guess he may have said it in an arrogant way, like you should live in the first world or at least learn everything there is to know about it. I'd like to see him write those 5 lines in my language. Well, it doesn't matter, the post is getting pretty long any way. The thing is, say it polight, and it's allright.

PS: I don't know if you knew this, but Spanish, specially the one spoken in Argentina, is almost identical to Italian. Imagine the benifits one has regarding musical terminology...

PS2: Ohh, you just made me remember of this Seinfeld episode where he said "uno momento por favor". To you (and even Jerry) this might be funny because it's said in another language (they were talking about a made-up Spanish boyfriend of Elain's), but to us in Latin America it was double as funny because he was saying it wrong! It's "un momento", not "uno momento". I still quote every now and then "uno momento por favor" with a gringo accent, and everyone (who watched the show) starts to laugh.

PS3: Did you notice? I checked for every single "double-lettered" word on this post to be spelled properly. Don't expect me to do so every time though!

Well, back to piano it is...

[barnowl]

I agree 100% with all you said. Well almost. Fact is until this moment, I'd have countered your "no double letters in Spanish" with caballero. There are two l's there, but it dawned on me that ll en español is considered a single letter!!! Right?

And I don't regard my correcting you as obsessive. Every time I opened the Student's forum, I'd see "exageration". Every time!!! 

Finally I had to tell you. Thanks for taking it in the spirit intended.

[tac-tics]

You're right. The fingering is crazy.

I don't see how such books even get published. I have a book of Bach inventions and the fingerings are just all over the place. It makes it really hard to learn (especially since I'm between teachers right now).

[persona]

barnowl:

That's because the sound of a double L in Spanish is different than the one of a single L (it sounds similar to "sh" in English). What I meant to say is, in Spanish you never repeat a letter if you're going to pronounce it the same way as with only one (for instance, "kiss" is pronounced  [kIs] in English, the second "s" is written but there is no actual use to it. This doesn't happen in Spanish).

Well, never mind.

[dorfmouse]

the second "s" is written but there is no actual use to it.

Hmmm ... have to jump in here! If there wasn't a double s you would pronounce it as a z, like in "his", "is". Many spellings in English that on face value look useless or illogical actually serve a purpose, sometimes for pronounciation, e.g. the difference between "hiss" and "his", sometimes helping to make meaning transparent, e.g. "The book was red."/"The book was read." Often spellings reflect the origin of words and their journey into  English  from other languages.
Of course, the main purpose of (British) English spelling is to torture foreigners!

PS to Persona - One of our forum's most eminent contributors always gets "lose" and "loose" wrong. Thank God we don't bar posts with spelling mistakes!

[persona]

Yeah, that's true... but what about "opposite", "exaggeration"... there are many that don't seem to have a purpose (to me at least).

But it doesn't really matter! BACK TO PIANO NOW!!!

[barnowl]

barnowl:

That's because the sound of a double L in Spanish is different than the one of a single L (it sounds similar to "sh" in English). What I meant to say is, in Spanish you never repeat a letter if you're going to pronounce it the same way as with only one (for instance, "kiss" is pronounced  [kIs] in English, the second "s" is written but there is no actual use to it. This doesn't happen in Spanish).

Well, never mind.

No, no, no.

Civilized Spanish-speaking people pronounce ll as a y sound, as in the English word kayo.

In Spain (y Cuba, también), for Guillermo,  it'd be geeYAIRmo.

Down there, you unfortunate, culturally deprived Agrentines say geeZHAIRmo.

If God wanted you to go ZH or SH all the time he wouldn't have given you teeth. 

[persona]

It's not my fault if those damn caribbeans can't even speak their own language 

...anyhow, my point still applies here, since they pronounce "geeYAIRmo", as you say, but not "guilermo".

But what I can't belive is that we are still talking about this!

[barnowl]

It's not my fault if those *** caribbeans can't even speak their own language 

...anyhow, my point still applies here, since they pronounce "geeYAIRmo", as you say, but not "guilermo".

But what I can't belive is that we are still talking about this!

We can make this the last post in this thread, if you like.

[persona]

Ok

[desordre]

 Dear Persona:
 The Well-tempered Clavier is a book that you will use the rest of your life, your pupils will use, your childs, neighbors, even your pet. Why don't expend some cash and buy THE edition? Of the many I see, the best is Henle Verlag. Euro 36 (or Euro 22 as a small book) for both volumes.
https://www.henle.com/index.cfm?lang=en
 In time, I am no representative of the editors
 Best wishes!

[desordre]

 By the way, the 1234 (why not 567etc ) fingering is non sense for this piece. Someone suggested two fingers, and I guess that's the best idea, for a clear and straightforward articulation.