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Mozart Sonata K330 first movement (Read 3927 times)

Offline acha114

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Mozart Sonata K330 first movement
« on: July 19, 2006, 07:55:43 PM »
I absolutely love the first movement. However I am having difficulty playing this passage at speed, or even half speed for that matter.

The passage is at the end of the 1st movement.


Does anyone know how to play this properly? The edition I have suggests to play the trill as F-G-F-E-F but it seems too difficult to play this at speed and suddenly have to slow down as you play the E-F-G after the trill. Also some recordings I have heard don't seem to play this trill as written above. Does anyone know how to play this one?

Offline letters

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Re: Mozart Sonata K330 first movement
«Reply #1 on: July 19, 2006, 09:01:31 PM »
i did this for grade 8, i always seemed to mess up the first trill but got the second one. it is possible to do it at the recommended speed, u just have to start v slowly and get the fingering absolutely correct and secure, then gradually speed it up, its the only way. i think i got 25/30 for it... just dont rush it and be as light and graceful as possible!
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Offline kghayesh

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Re: Mozart Sonata K330 first movement
«Reply #2 on: July 20, 2006, 03:32:55 PM »
You should give great care to the fingering you use here. I used (from the begining of the upwards scale) 2 3 1 (232) 1 2 1 (232) 1 2 3 4 4.
Also, try to accent the first beat in the LH it gives you some control of the rythm.
Tell me if it works out.

Offline acha114

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Re: Mozart Sonata K330 first movement
«Reply #3 on: July 20, 2006, 08:29:05 PM »
You should give great care to the fingering you use here. I used (from the begining of the upwards scale) 2 3 1 (232) 1 2 1 (232) 1 2 3 4 4.
Also, try to accent the first beat in the LH it gives you some control of the rythm.
Tell me if it works out.

So it seems you play the trill part as (F-G-F) instead of (F-G-F-E-F), right? I guess that is easier as you don't play as many notes. I just played the (F-G-F-E-F) trill as it was suggested in the sheet music that I have.

Offline nightingale11

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Re: Mozart Sonata K330 first movement
«Reply #4 on: July 20, 2006, 08:59:46 PM »
Instead of slowly ramping the up the speed which will creates speed walls and take a lot of time I suggest you to split it up in parts you manage (of course they most overlap to the next part) and practice those until you have mastered them and then connect them. 

Offline kghayesh

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Re: Mozart Sonata K330 first movement
«Reply #5 on: July 21, 2006, 12:14:18 AM »
Quote
So it seems you play the trill part as (F-G-F) instead of (F-G-F-E-F), right? I guess that is easier as you don't play as many notes. I just played the (F-G-F-E-F) trill as it was suggested in the sheet music that I have.

Yes I play it as (F-G-F) coz simply it makes sense. The other option will make it 'too fussy' i think.

Offline stevehopwood

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Re: Mozart Sonata K330 first movement
«Reply #6 on: July 21, 2006, 08:46:43 AM »
I play grace notes rather than trills. I have attached a recording - see what you think.

Steve  :D
Piano teacher, accompanist and soloist for over 30 years - all of them fantastic.
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Offline acha114

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Re: Mozart Sonata K330 first movement
«Reply #7 on: July 21, 2006, 08:03:23 PM »
I play grace notes rather than trills. I have attached a recording - see what you think.

Steve  :D

Very nice playing. Does the grace note you mention go like this, with 2 notes instead of 3, e.g. (G-F) instead of (F-G-F)

Offline stevehopwood

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Re: Mozart Sonata K330 first movement
«Reply #8 on: July 21, 2006, 09:46:26 PM »
Very nice playing. Does the grace note you mention go like this, with 2 notes instead of 3, e.g. (G-F) instead of (F-G-F)

Thank you acha114. Very kind of you to say.

Yes, you are right about what I play. My realisation of this ornament allows me to maintain quite a high tempo for the movement - I like this. It also avoids a scramble to fit in notes that audience members do not care about anyway.

Have fun. This is one of my favourite Mozart sonatas.

Steve  :D
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Offline steve jones

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Re: Mozart Sonata K330 first movement
«Reply #9 on: July 23, 2006, 11:32:25 PM »

Hey, I just started this piece aswell! Seems quite long, but think I can manage it.

That run does look like one of the hardest, so I should probably start practicing it now by the looks of things.

SJ

Offline stevehopwood

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Re: Mozart Sonata K330 first movement
«Reply #10 on: July 24, 2006, 09:44:50 AM »
Here you guys - have a freebie recording on me.

My playing isn't perfect - partly because it is a recording of a live recital, mostly because I can't play perfectly  :D

For size reasons, I have cut out the expo repeat and reduced the file to mono, so some of the tone quality of the original recording has gone. Sorry about that.

Steve  :D
Piano teacher, accompanist and soloist for over 30 years - all of them fantastic.
www.hopwood3.freeserve.co.uk

Offline xamy

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Re: Mozart Sonata K330 first movement
«Reply #11 on: July 25, 2006, 11:54:04 AM »
This is one of my favourite pieces, I did it for grade 8 to and got 28.

I had problems with the part you mention too. But, as someone else mentioned, just put 3 notes into the trill, thats hard enough! I couldn't possibly fit 5 notes the way your edition suggests without slowing the piece down to almost half it's speed! But then I'm not a concert pianist.

Good luck!

Offline tompilk

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Re: Mozart Sonata K330 first movement
«Reply #12 on: July 26, 2006, 01:23:57 PM »
I fudged them when i did grade 8 and i still got a pass - i think 23/30...
Tom
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Offline wippenboy

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Re: Mozart Sonata K330 first movement
«Reply #13 on: August 18, 2013, 04:01:29 AM »
In my opionion this is probably the most difficult part of the first mvt. particularly if you are attempting to overclock the tempo.  My Dover edition has them marked as turns rather than as trills (which seems a more direct ornament notation but I haven't checked on whatever history might be available on this). kghayesh's comment on fingering is very usefull here. However I had experimented with a number of different fingerings for this, including kghayesh's, and I found the following fingering - as counterintuitive as it may be - to be the best for speed because if avoids passing the thumb under (121) which is the limiting speed variable (at Glenn Gould speed, say - although musically I prefer it significantly slower): 231(232)123(454)12343 [cde(fgf)efg(aba)gabcc] (turns in parenthesis).

Offline hardy_practice

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Re: Mozart Sonata K330 first movement
«Reply #14 on: September 02, 2013, 08:12:22 PM »
Notice when Beethoven copied the idea in the opening bars of the 4th mov of his 5th Symphony (also in C) he used grace notes.
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