Piano Forum

Pages: [1] Go Down

Topic: scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty? (Read 64525 times)

nightingale11

PS Silver Member
Full Member
Posts: 158

scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty?

on: July 24, 2006, 12:22:59 PM

Hi, I started to listen to the scarlatti sonatas and really liked the one I listened to so I would appreciate if anyone could recommend some their favourites and put the sonatas in progressive order of difficulty? (and if you Bernhard see this message please put them in the 5 levels you gaved me

)

Thanks in advance

Logged

pianistimo

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 12143

Re: scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty?

Reply #1 on: July 24, 2006, 12:40:04 PM

there's an interesting book out entitled 'ordering scarlatti's strange world' by matthew flannery. in it - the book discusses the progressive sonatas and puts them into varying degrees of difficulty. personally, i think they are like chopin etudes. there is something to learn from each one and they each have something unique and challenging about them.

pogorelich plays them beautifully.

one thing i learned with the K119 is that you don't always have to change fingers on repeated notes. you can use another technique keeping the same finger and just pressing on a succession of spots in towards the top of the key. obviously you don't want to get too near the top since mechanically that wouldn't be good - but say, if your first note is where you normally play - you move in incrementally by 3/8" or 1/4" movements up the key (depending on how many notes you are repeating). hope i explained this ok.

Logged

pianistimo

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 12143

Re: scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty?

Reply #2 on: July 24, 2006, 12:43:32 PM

i've paired the minor K9 with major K119. d minor and D major. Some can stand alone and some are even triple sonatas.

i personally love to hear interpretations also on the guitar. gives you some good ideas for interpretation (much like granados spanish dances).

Logged

bernhard

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 5078

Re: scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty?

Reply #3 on: July 24, 2006, 12:45:49 PM

Quote from: nightingale11 on July 24, 2006, 12:22:59 PM

Hi, I started to listen to the scarlatti sonatas and really liked the one I listened to so I would appreciate if anyone could recommend some their favourites and put the sonatas in progressive order of difficulty? (and if you Bernhard see this message please put them in the 5 levels you gaved me )

Thanks in advance

Here are over 200 Scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty(it should get you started - grades are ABRSM):

Elementary (grades 1 – 4)

K32 (3)
K34 (3)
K40 (3)
K42 (3)
K73 (3)
K80 (3)
K81 (3)
K83 (3)
K88 (3)
K382 (3)
K431 (3)
K471 (3)

K14 (4)
K15 (4)
K63 (4)
K74 (4)
K75 (4)
K95 (4)
K163 (4)
K199 (4)
K304 (4)
K322 (4)
K377 (4)
K398 (4)
K440 (4)
K512 (4)

Intermediate (grades 5 – 6)

K5 (5)
K6 (5)
K25 (5)
K54 (5)
K59 (5)
K65 (5)
K67 (5)
K70 (5)
K79 (5)
K85 (5)
K102 (5)
K112 (5)
K123 (5)
K175 (5)
K178 (5)
K201 (5)
K203 (5)
K208 (5)
K211 (5)
K213 (5)
K274 (5)
K278 (5)
K285 (5)
K307 (5)
K323 (5)
K325 (5)
K335 (5)
K341 (5)
K342 (5)
K348 (5)
K349 (5)
K373 (5)
K376 (5)
K381 (5)
K389 (5)
K394 (5)
K402 (5)
K404 (5)
K405 (5)
K453 (5)
K454 (5)
K461 (5)
K514 (5)
K515 (5)
K531 (5)
K541 (5)
K544 (5)
K547 (5)

K1 (6)
K2 (6)
K3 (6)
K4 (6)
K7 (6)
K11 (6)
K12 (6)
K13 (6)
K19 (6)
K20 (6)
K21 (6)
K26 (6)
K28 (6)
K35 (6)
K38 (6)
K51 (6)
K53 (6)
K64 (6)
K77 (6)
K100 (6)
K105 (6)
K109 (6)
K119 (6)
K125 (6)
K132 (6)
K146 (6)
K149 (6)
K158 (6)
K165 (6)
K184 (6)
K193 (6)
K198 (6)
K212 (6)
K214 (6)
K239 (6)
K247 (6)
K255 (6)
K264 (6)
K266 (6)
K268 (6)
K289 (6)
K300 (6)
K303 (6)
K333 (6)
K371 (6)
K378 (6)
K379 (6)
K 380 (6)
K384 (6)
K386 (6)
K387 (6)
K391 (6)
K421 (6)
K425 (6)
K427 (6)
K428 (6)
K429 (6)
K431 (6)
K432 (6)
K440 (6)
K446 (6)
K470 (6)
K475 (6)
K481 (6)
K490 (6)
K491 (6)
K502 (6)
K511 (6)
K520 (6)
K532 (6)
K537 (6)
K551 (6)

Advanced (grades 7 – 8 )

K8 (7)
K9 (7)
K10 (7)
K16 (7)
K18 (7)
K33 (7)
K39 (7)
K46 (7)
K52 (7)
K69 (7)
K82 (7)
K98 (7)
K124 (7)
K133 (7)
K134 (7)
K135 (7)
K140 (7)
K159 (7)
K197 (7)
K200 (7)
K259 (7)
K261 (7)
K284 (7)
K318 (7)
K393 (7)
K415 (7)
K436 (7)
K443 (7)
K450 (7)
K487 (7)
K492 (7)
K496 (7)
K507 (7)
K525 (7)

K24 (8+)
K27 (8 )
K29 (8 )
K30 (8 )
K31 (8 )
K41 (8 )
K58 (8 )
K87 (8 )
K93 (8 )
K96 (8 )
K113 (8 )
K120 (8 )
K128 (8 )
K141 (8 )
K142 (8 )
K162 (8 )
K169 (8 )
K185 (8 )
K417 (8 )
K426 (8 )
K430 (8 )
K444 (8 )
K466 (8 )
K474 (8 )
K478 (8 )
K513 (8 )
K517 (8 )
K535 (8 )

For favourite sonatas, have a look at this thread:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2339.msg20064.html#msg20064
(Scarlatti favourite sonatas – almost 200 sonatas graded and commented).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

nightingale11

PS Silver Member
Full Member
Posts: 158

Re: scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty?

Reply #4 on: July 24, 2006, 12:50:04 PM

Thanks for the replies

Logged

bernhard

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 5078

Re: scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty?

Reply #5 on: July 24, 2006, 12:50:22 PM

Quote from: pianistimo on July 24, 2006, 12:43:32 PM

i've paired the minor K9 with major K119. d minor and D major. Some can stand alone and some are even triple sonatas.

i personally love to hear interpretations also on the guitar. gives you some good ideas for interpretation (much like granados spanish dances).

In regards to the pairing of sonatas, see reply #50 on this thread:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2339.msg20064.html#msg20064
(Scarlatti favourite sonatas – almost 200 sonatas graded and commented).

Someone has also recorded Scarlatti sonatas on the accordion

. I will see if I can find the reference.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

bernhard

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 5078

Re: scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty?

Reply #6 on: July 24, 2006, 01:04:37 PM

There you are: Scarlatti on accordion

https://www.binaural.com/binvct.html#anchor1513428

BW
B

Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

pekko

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 41

Re: scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty?

Reply #7 on: July 24, 2006, 11:30:47 PM

Bernhard: What grade is K450? And which sonata do you mean with K3, graded 8.

Logged

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)

bernhard

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 5078

Re: scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty?

Reply #8 on: July 25, 2006, 02:05:26 AM

Quote from: pekko on July 24, 2006, 11:30:47 PM

Bernhard: What grade is K450? And which sonata do you mean with K3, graded 8.

K450: grade 7 (I added on the list above)
K3: grade 6 (typo, I corrected it on the list above).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

tac-tics

PS Silver Member
Full Member
Posts: 185

Re: scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty?

Reply #9 on: July 25, 2006, 03:19:02 AM

Quote from: bernhard on July 24, 2006, 12:45:49 PM

Here are over 200 Scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty(it should get you started - grades are ABRSM):

Good ol' Bernhard, spamming the forums again

I need to dig out my Scarlatti book. I bought it about a month ago, but I haven't had time to learn any pieces. I will consult the spam above to find an appropriate piece

Logged

bernhard

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 5078

Re: scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty?

Reply #10 on: July 25, 2006, 03:20:32 AM

Quote from: tac-tics on July 25, 2006, 03:19:02 AM

Good ol' Bernhard, spamming the forums again

I need to dig out my Scarlatti book. I bought it about a month ago, but I haven't had time to learn any pieces. I will consult the spam above to find an appropriate piece

Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

fftransform

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 607

Re: scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty?

Reply #11 on: April 28, 2018, 07:03:44 AM

These are the 'elementary' ones, i.e. nothing from the technique of scales, arpeggios, fast or extended repeated notes, thirds, sixths or octaves. At most one thumb turn in scalar material, at an at most andante tempo, is present. They're supposed to be in some semblance of an order, but they're probably give-or-take-15 in either direction. Hard to compare the long ones to the short ones, as well. I'm assuming that people are willing to simplify ornaments as needed, when it seems plausible for the passage.

Also, there are definitely some typos in the list above (e.g. K. 14, K. 415, didn't keep track of others). Just posting since this list pops up under google searches. Basically, you or your student can go through these before getting to 'serious technique,' so like while working on book 1/2 of Hanon. Way more to choose from than you'd have time for.

These are not necessarily the 'easiest' Scarlatti Sonatas to someone who already has scales, arpeggios and repeated notes down, but there is probably considerable overlap. Asterisks mark ones with some musical worth.

K 40*
K 34
K 32***
K 42
K 80
K 291*
K 453
K 94
K 59*
K 95
K 308
K 81***
K 63
K 294*
K 310
K 109***
K 274
K 287
K 481***
K 285*
K 431
K 281
K 75
K 415
K 471
K 280*
K 323
K 15*
K 88*
K 3***
K 322***
K 279*
K 292
K 177
K 238***
K 60
K 92
K 276
K 210*
K 230*
K 164
K 286
K 151
K 148*
K 35
K 398
K 374
K 267*
K 213***
K 401
K 165
K 206*
K 69***
K 364
K 36
K 117
K 345
K 243
K 304
K 327*
K 362*

Logged

outin

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 8213

Re: scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty?

Reply #12 on: April 29, 2018, 04:36:56 AM

Quote from: fftransform on April 28, 2018, 07:03:44 AM

Asterisks mark ones with some musical worth.

Appreciate you updating this old thread! But it would have been smarter to leave out such subjective evaluations and leave it to the player/listener to decide for themselves. Why would anyone pick up a piece with no musical worth? And it's hard to agree with your assesment anyway...

Logged

fftransform

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 607

Re: scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty?

Reply #13 on: April 30, 2018, 02:46:03 AM

Quote from: outin on April 29, 2018, 04:36:56 AM

Appreciate you updating this old thread! But it would have been smarter to leave out such subjective evaluations and leave it to the player/listener to decide for themselves. Why would anyone pick up a piece with no musical worth? And it's hard to agree with your assesment anyway...

People can disregard it at will; it seems much less likely that they would want to listen to 60 or 70 sonatas in encyclopedic fashion than be bothered by the presence of my opinion. They are presented in the context of technique and some have value mostly as exercises, so I think the reason for including some opinion on the musical worth is apparent.

If you disagree with something it would be better to know what you disagree with. I would be pretty surprised if there weren't at least a few mistakes or omissions.

Logged

outin

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 8213

Re: scarlatti sonatas in progressive order of difficulty?

Reply #14 on: April 30, 2018, 03:49:23 AM

Quote from: fftransform on April 30, 2018, 02:46:03 AM

People can disregard it at will; it seems much less likely that they would want to listen to 60 or 70 sonatas in encyclopedic fashion than be bothered by the presence of my opinion. They are presented in the context of technique and some have value mostly as exercises, so I think the reason for including some opinion on the musical worth is apparent.

If you disagree with something it would be better to know what you disagree with. I would be pretty surprised if there weren't at least a few mistakes or omissions.

I guess we should consider the musical value in context. Meaning that an easy piece can have musical value for a beginner while it seems trivial to you.

I am bad with numbers, so while I would know most of the sonatas by ear, I can't remember which one is which. But as an example I think k34 is a cute little piece with more musical than techical challenges.

Of course I did exactly what you say, listened through all the sonatas before deciding which ones to learn

Logged

Post reply

Pages: [1] Go Up