Haw to wipeout America.

[BoliverAllmon]

Prometheus, the US doesn't allow execution of children.  If you aren't tried as an adult, you can't receive the death penalty.

I was scanning through so much jibberish that I completely over looked that pathetic attempt of a lie.

It is surprising what some people pass as reality. thanks for pointing it out musik_man

boliver

[rimv2]

I was scanning through so much jibberish that I completely over looked that pathetic attempt of a lie.

It is surprising what some people pass as reality. thanks for pointing it out musik_man

boliver

You mean you didnt know that black people walk like this and white people walk like this, and the moon is made of cheese and fat guy in a red suit enters your house on christmas eve and gives presents as opposed to robbing you blind?

[BoliverAllmon]

You mean you didnt know that black people walk like this and white people walk like this, and the moon is made of cheese and fat guy in a red suit enters your house on christmas eve and gives presents as opposed to robbing you blind?

exactly

[prometheus]

Prometheus, the US doesn't allow execution of children.  If you aren't tried as an adult, you can't receive the death penalty.

That's when the supreme court overruled the law because it was unconstitutional: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roper_v._Simmons

An estimate of 364 children were excecuted in the US, since 1642.


The US, together with Somalia, are the only two countries that have not signed the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

To avoid getting 'caught' by more lies; China's laws officially do not allow the excecution of children. But it happens anyway.

And to avoid being called anti-american, Michigan was one of the first places in the world were capital punishment was banned, in 1867. That's something to be proud about.

[musik_man]

Even before then, children could not be executed.  Minors could, but only if they were judged fit to stand trial as adults.

[prometheus]

I mean everyone below 18. The Convention on the Rights of the Child, and most other laws, define 'child' as any human below 18.

Actually, before 1988 US law even allowed excecution of those below 16. The same thing happened. Supreme court ruled against the death scentence. Same with mental retardation. Supreme court overruled the punishment, that time because of the Bill of Rights.

I guess at some time the supreme court will also ban the death penalty itself because it contradicts either the constitution or the Bill of Rights.  This instead of lawmakers deciding it is time to become civilised and thus changing the law. Kind of strange to me that the supreme court overruled the lawmakers on these issues. I mean, it happens everywhere where there is a trias politica but it is kind of striking that it happens on this issue three times over. I mean, people oppose the death penalty because it is inhumane. Not because it contradicts the constitution.

[BoliverAllmon]

The judge is suppose to determine if the minor is to be tried as an adult. If he does then the death penalty is applicable.

I would be curious what the an actual poll of people think about the death penalty. Just because the Supreme Court knocks something down does not mean it is the general consensus of the people.

boliver

[prometheus]

Yes, it is true that someone needs to be trialed as an adult. This is also possible in my country. And I find that very curious. I am no jurist so I don't know what the idea behind this is. But don't you make a special law for minors? So why trial them as adults if they aren't?

About the death penalty in the US. The consensus of the people in the US is by far the best studied all over the world. So it would be easy to find many many polls on the death penalty in the US. I think it differs greatly depending on the state.

What the supreme court did is something else. They didn't bent over the question if is is a good idea to apply the death penalty. They tried to determine if it was unconstitutional or not. The result was a 5-4 margin. In the US unconstitutional laws do not need to be repealed. The laws are still there, they are just not enforced because the constitution doesn't allow it, according to the highest juridical authority in the US.
Now you may ask everyone if they think these laws are unconstitutional or not, they are not in a position to make this judgement. The US may have layman justice, which I find very silly, but in most places in the world only a supreme court or constitutional court has the authority to rule that laws violate the constitution or not. I am sure this is the case in the US as well.

So that means that the constitution needs to be changed. And more people are needed to support a constitution change that are needed to support a law. I don't think that there is a 2/3 majority for capital punishment. So we don't get even close to a 2/3 majority for capital punishment against children and retarded people.

[bernhard]

Death penalty. Sidestepping all the "humane" issues (which of course are important), the main problem is a logical one: You cannot condemn someone for a certain behaviour and then use that very same behaviour to "punish" that person, since then you would be liable to the same condemnation.

Of course this poses a real big religious problem for Christianity. In the immortal words of NY Senator James Donovan:

"Where would Christianity be if Jesus had got eight to fifteen years with time off for good behaviour?"

 

BW
B

[pianistimo]

be careful what you say bernhard.  those words could haunt you.  i mean, when you come to the judgement - He might let you have 15 years of heaven before you get to hell.  but, i wouldn't worry too much if i were you.  He likes humor. 

i think, personally, that there are some crimes that are so heineous that if they didn't have some kind of scary punishment - people would go around committing them right and left.  take charles manson, or the boston strangler.  these people jsut don't care  a whit.  you can't reform them.

on the other hand, there ARE reformable people.  i don't know where they reside.  i think that putting a whole bunch of wrotten apples all together isn't a good idea.  you need to take each one individually and put them in a situation where they are learning good things, imo.  but, that would take a lot of taxpayer dollars.

anotehr thing i don't agree with on the system is to be brutal to them while they live.  several men died in an alabama? prison due to lack of air conditioning.  this is reprehensible to me. 

[prometheus]

Well, the logical problem is actually easily solved when it is 'made clear' that the rights of a person and that of the governments aren't the same. If you think the state has the authority to take life then there is no problem. From a christian perspective the commandments wouldn't apply to governments. Or corporations. Maybe corporations would be able to excecute capital punishment to their employees.

[bernhard]

be careful what you say bernhard.  those words could haunt you.  i mean, when you come to the judgement - He might let you have 15 years of heaven before you get to hell. 

Er...

I didn´t say it, your senator did.

Let him worry about it. 

BW
B.

[bernhard]

He might let you have 15 years of heaven before you get to hell.

Er.. (again)

Surely you mean he would let me have 15 years of hell (or perhaps purgatory) before I get to heaven for good behaviour? (At least - not that I truly expect it  - this would make sense).

BW
B.

[bernhard]

Well, the logical problem is actually easily solved when it is 'made clear' that the rights of a person and that of the governments aren't the same. If you think the state has the authority to take life then there is no problem. From a christian perspective the commandments wouldn't apply to governments. Or corporations. Maybe corporations would be able to excecute capital punishment to their employees.

I happen not to think this to be the case. (the state has the authority to take life, that is). So the logical problem remains.

(Of course the state, corporations and so on, have the power to do so - pretty much like an armed thug has the power to take the life of someone - however, having the power does not make it right - even though many people seem to believe so - and it is this sort of belief that leads to things like Nuclear arms race).

Best wishes.
Bernhard.

P.S. It completely astounds me that many so called Christians and other Bible bashers (considering that not killing is one of the ten commandments) that fight so hard against abortion and euthanasia seem to have no qualms with wars for unashamed plunder and profitl and the death penalty. And moreover to have the nerve to claim that such mostrosities are God inspired. ("From their actions you shall know them"). Perhaps they should worry.

[bernhard]

i think, personally, that there are some crimes that are so heineous that if they didn't have some kind of scary punishment - people would go around committing them right and left.  take charles manson, or the boston strangler.  these people jsut don't care  a whit.  you can't reform them.

Don´t forget Bush, Blair and Olmert.

Doesn´t that goes against one of the most basic tenets of Christianity? That everyone is redeemable?

BW
B.

[thalbergmad]

Er.. (again)

Surely you mean he would let me have 15 years of hell (or perhaps purgatory) before I get to heaven for good behaviour? (At least - not that I truly expect it  - this would make sense).

BW
B.

Mr C L Hanon will be waiting at the pearly gates for you old chap.

Thal

[bernhard]

Mr C L Hanon will be waiting at the pearly gates for you old chap.

Thal

That would mean  huge savings in punishment (Two for the price of one! I thought God was supposed to be generous)

[pianistimo]

as with another thread - i personally think tit-for-tat isn't a good idea.  it used to be in the old testament that if you put out someone's eye - you had yours knocked out.  but, that makes everyone blind after a while.

if i was in charge of the world (ahahahaha) i'd get the bible out and show people the parts they are missing.  but, as bernhard says - i'm not sure i'm in or out.  i'm good for a while and then i just can't stop from saying or doing something.  so then i repent again.  and again.  BUT, if God says that we should forgive seventy times seven - then He surely would do the same.  that's exactly 490 times.  i don't know where i fit in all this - i think it might be over by about 200.  now, bernhard is probably over by a thousand according to my reconing on how many times he's slammed hanon.  you will not be called guiltless if you call someone an 'idiot.'  my hsuband gets around this by calling them 'stupid idiots.'  i pray for him daily, too.

as i see it - we do not want to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.  that is - the Words of God Himself.  so if he says 'don't take my Name in vain.'  that is probably as important as not killing.  most people don't think about it that much - but i think that it is a quite important commandment because he says 'i will not hold them guiltless.'  i try to make this point to my children -but they hear swearing so much on the radio and music - it really bothers me.

i think the idea of love and respect are intertwined in a fully functioning society.  but we don't have either in most societies (as siberian was pointing out).  there has to be elemetns of trust and we are not trusting the government, people in corporations, etc. etc. because of wasted taxpayer dollars.  what if...one day we saw where it all went - and it all came back to us?  of course, we can steal from God, too.  i think it IS tempting to focus on self to the exclusion of others - but it should be the other way around.  Christ gave his life for us - and told us to do the same.  if someone asks you to walk a mile - you walk two - hits you on the cheek - you turn it. 

dr phil was even saying that for the ** on the show - that they should be willing to suffer a little.  not to be doormats, but to not overreact and start slamming men and swearing at them - and making them feel terrible.  he said there's a line where respect comes into play.  i think this is between men/women, men/men, women/women, governments/citizens, races/races, etc.  you learn to love them as they are and not what and how you want them to be.  you just accept them and realize that you're not the ultimate judge.

[leucippus]

Be careful not to confuse America and the administration currently controlling it. 

I'll just quietly agree with the brillant words of le_poete_mourant.

[prometheus]

I happen not to think this to be the case. (the state has the authority to take life, that is). So the logical problem remains.

No, wait. If people make the wrong assumption, at least I share this opinion with you, then you can apply all the logic of the world as correct as possible, it will still turn out wrong because of the starting position. It may still seem as a logic problem for you, but you have to remember that the other person goes wrong not because of logic. So if you analyse someone elses reasoning you should analyse their assumptions and starting positions as well.

P.S. It completely astounds me that many so called Christians and other Bible bashers (considering that not killing is one of the ten commandments)...

Unless you translate the commandment into 'One shall not murder.' Then you have to debate the difference of murder and killing. Something is only murder when it is illegal. If you accidentally kill someone you are not a murder. If you are responsible but you didn't want to murder it is manslaughter. Then if there is some kind of accident were the person causing the accident is in error then you also kill someone but it is not even manslaughter. (No idea the legal name for this in english).

And then you can kill someone without having any guild at all. I mean, killing does also apply to animals. If you drive a car you will squash many many bugs. But of course this doesn't even get close to murder. Now someone like me, I sometimes pay for a ride on a train. This means the train is killing bugs while I pay for it, at least a very minor part. So I am still involved in killing bugs.

I think most theologists agree that the bible says 'not murder'. I mean, in the OT God orders his people to kill on many occasions, even woman and children.

Also, the commandments were given to the chosen people, the jewish people. To think they apply to all people is a jump in logic. One assumption leading to the conclusion that the commandments need to be followed by all people is that the commandments are 'good' and that all humans, not just the jewish people, need to be 'good'. But then there is still a difference. God never ordered us to be good. He only gave the commandments to the jewish people. So he can never punish me for not following the orders he didn't give me.

[prometheus]

I'll just quietly agree with the brillant words of le_poete_mourant.

Maybe it should rather be put as: "Be careful not to confuse America and the people living in it" since the American government has all the right to represent its people in the world. One perfectly understands that the US has a democratic deficit and that the opinion of the government corresponds to the opinion of the american people. But the US is still a representative democracy so the people in the US are responsible. They did give the government their mandate, even if they don't agree with the policy and even if they didn't mean to do so.

Now one cannot blame an individual for the actions of the american people as a whole, who do bear some responsible for their government. So it is very proboblematic, yes.

[johnny-boy]

Only responsible if one votes. A very small percentage of U.S. citizens actually vote. The rest of the citizens just want to be left alone.

John

[arensky]

Rejecting information of a 'Marxist' site because it is marxist is pure ad hominem.  But maybe I am biased too. Biased against your analysis. Being biased doesn't mean you destort the truth. Let alone that one lies and is an extremist.

I reject marxism, marxists and all they have to say flat out. Hypocrisy and lies. You will find these attributes in all political systems, but marxism is particularly abhorrent, they brainwash and indoctrinate the uneducated, then set up their tyranny. Marxist regimes have never led to increased freedom of expression, speech and behavior. Fortunately for you and I and the rest of the world it has been almost entirely discredited and abandoned. Yes, ad hominem. They have received my intellectual consideration in the past. They are not worthy of it now. Been there, done that.

This was all meaningless? What where all those fleets doing there? Far away from Europe? Just a caribbean cruise? And why was the US so concerned about getting them out of there? The facts don't exclude this.

The fleets were blockading Venezeula to pressure the government there to pay it's debts to the countries of the respective fleets. The USA was concerned about foreign military forces so near to the continental USA. There is an element of power play and saber rattling on the part of the European nations and the USA in this incident, but Venezuela remained a sovereign nation.

Do I have to give more cases of oil involved in world politics?

No. I am well aware that the modern world runs on the gasoline powered internal combustion engine, and that ensuring a sufficient supply of gasoline for those engines is a prime ( if not the  prime) concern of governments and politicians who wish to remain in power, less they incur the displeasure of their population and businesses. The more industrialized the countries are, the greater the need for oil and gasoline.

I don't get the Marxist insult either. I obviously have nothing to do with Marxism. All I have been doing is blaming governments. Its not like I am blaming private power and defending governments. I only blame institutions and people according to their power. Maybe that should give you a hint.

Ok. You are not a Marxist. That's a good thing.

And who should have the power?

And how should "they" administer it?

Then you accuse me of lying. What are you doing?

It seems you were. I am pointing out untruth and/or distortion, which I believe are very dangerous things.

You have not been part of this discussion at all. You have not presented one refreshing idea. You have not presented your analysis about what is happening in the world.

I am now!  

The political and economic world has been trying to establish a new order of things since 1991, after a 45 year period of stasis generally referred to as the "Cold War". Ten years ago I felt optimistic about the future of the world, today I am not so optimistic. I am fairly sure that President Ahmadinejad of Iran will figure prominently in the events of the next 1-5 years. Hopefully I am wrong, and he will fade quietly into obscurity. But I doubt that that will happen.  

The USA will probably elect a Democratic Party president ( Senator Clinton, most likely ) in 2008, barring drastic changes in the current domestic and international arenas. This will result in superficial changes, nothing substantial will come of it, imo. The American Democratic and Republican political parties have nothing new to offer, they both lie through their teeth, attempting to fatten themselves and perpetuate their own special interests and letting the country go to hell. I may not vote. I could practice piano instead...

I may have given up on my country's politics.

But not on my country.  

We will see if the European Union is a permanent entity within, probably in about 25 years. This largely depends on unknown events yet to happen. India and China will gain further industrial, political and economic clout and prominence, as will Brasil. President Chavez in Venezuela is not going to last in power very long. I could be wrong about that, though. Russia and the former USSR is a wild card; I cannot possibly predict what will happen there.

I would like to see my own country ( USA ) retreat into well armed neutrality a la Sweeden and Switzerland. Since we have the capability (unlike most other countries) to be largely self sufficient and impervious to the vicissitudes of internationl politics and economics we should do that. There is nothing for "US" to gain from further international adventures.

Unfortunately this is probably a pipe dream. Imo it will only occur after massive destruction upheaval and death, here and elsewhere; hopefully I am mistaken in this assumption. And yet, everyday Americans are increasingly skeptical not only of the war but of foreign entanglements (our first president advised against them, we should be listening) and are wondering why their military forces are fighting a war half the world away.

Korea, Vietnam, Iraq. Third time's a charm, or strike three you're out! I hope...

I see no good solution to the Israel/Palestine problem. Maybe there is one, but it's beyond me, and everyone else too, it seems.

As for people not liking me because of the ideas I express, which you claim are lies; I have never experienced such a thing.

Then you are a selective reader of many of these posts. At least two respondents I can think of have expressed disdain for you personally. I don't dislike you, I don't even know you. What I dislike is that your ideas (in this case regarding Venezuelan history) are not presented as ideas but as blanket fact. Your "idea" (control of Venezuela passing from the UK to the USA) is either misinformed or a deliberate untruth. Here...

https://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lie

 

Now I don't want to brag about how I think the people that matter to me like me, you wouldn't believe it anyway and  probably try to turn it against me, following the idea of thoughts in your last message, , so I won't. I don't have to defend my personality.

You shouldn't assume that people will do what you think they will, because they often don't. There's a life lesson for you! And I'm sure your friends like you...

 Lying/untruth/distortion pisses me off. You should stop it, it doesn't advance your cause, whatever it is.  When I get angry, I use sarcasm. Don't take it personally, sorry.

[prometheus]

What about 1920 under Wilson, just after WWII?

I guess I am misinforemed since I do not have any books on Venezuela. But I do remember that someone who I trust as a source said that the US kicked the British out of Venezuela for the sake of oil. I just don't remember or did not know what was exectly referred to. But I still trust this to be true since this person has said it on many occasions and because this person is a respected scolar and accurate on most things he says.


Now I have tried to find any reference to this. The only think I can find is that prior to 1920 the British and the Dutch were building Venezuela's oil infrastucture. I also found a passage that could be referring to a confrontation between the US and the British, probably  a cold one. But I can't find any details.

[zheer]

  Bad news Israely military force are advancing forward into Lebanon with the green light given by American government, i guess it wont be long now, Lebano may be under Israely agressors fully armed with american weapons of mass distruction. It seems Israel will muscle their way through, it seems Iran may nuc Israel. Surly this is a frightning prospect.

[prometheus]

Iran doesn't have nukes.

[mephisto]

Useless discussion, nobody will agree with eachother anyway. Sad but true.

[zheer]

Useless discussion, nobody will agree with eachother anyway. Sad but true.

  Pppffffffffffffftttttttt, bull sh**t, i will disagree with anyone who supports this war, its going way too far. Mind you we can think what we like in the comfort of our sitting rooms, not much we can do.

[mephisto]

  Pppffffffffffffftttttttt, bull sh**t, i will disagree with anyone who supports this war, its going way too far. Mind you we can think what we like in the comfort of our sitting rooms, not much we can do.

What? Do you really think everybody will agree with eachother on this one?

[zheer]

What? Do you really think everybody will agree with eachother on this one?

  Well look all wars are bad, anyway am not from lebanon nor israel so i will keep my thoughts to myself. .

[pianistimo]

some wars are beyond comprehension.  i'm not saying that america is guitless - but in terms of the history of warfare between nations that hate israel and israel - it's gone on a long time.  some think israel is the cause of every world war.  but, i think this time it is not going to end so poorly for israel.  if Jesus Christ returns - the jewish people will be set straight about his sacrifice for them and despite their rejection of Him - he will embrace them first.  then all the nations.  that's what i read in the bible.  that the jewish people were to be an 'ensign' to the people.  that means that as they keep the commandments (or don't sometimes) it is an example to all people.

of course, there are gentiles that will shame them.  there are many who act better sometimes than the blessed ones.  just like children in a family.  if someone is the 'good' child - the others seem less somehow.  but, they are not.  just seems that there's always one child that feels they got a bad deal.

the good thing about Christianity is that everyone is judged.  noone gets out of being treated fairly and is thought 'good' without accepting Christ.  if this is the case - it's a pretty simple thing, to me.  i'm not involved with any government, per se.  sure, i live in america and hope for the best for it - but i don't really put my trust in it.  i put my trust in God.  i would rather die for Christ than a nation.  nations are just like individual people and have specific agendas.  i want my 'agenda' to be another type of government that is fair to everyone.  though i happen to think that america was based on the christian virtues (including the commandments).

there is averse in the bible where a man asks Christ what he should do to enter the kingdom of God.  he tells Christ that he has been keeping the commandments.  Christ tells him 'well done' - 'now go and sell all your possessions and give to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven.'  so he didn't nix the idea of the commandments - but added to them.  the gentiles are 'grafted' into the government of God by obedience - and not just blind faith.  why else would paul preach to the gentiles about not observing days and times - but to keep oneself unspotted from the world.  how does one stay 'unspotted?'  by doing everything the world is doing?  no.  by being different.  how are you different.  you don't take God's name in vain.  you don't steal, kill, lie, etc.  and also, the fruits of the spirit fill you up (love, joy, peace, longsufferring, kindness...)  so instead of worrying about 'law' you are free from the 'law of sin and death.'  you reside in a new place even while you are here on earth.

[thalbergmad]

there is averse in the bible where a man asks Christ what he should do to enter the kingdom of God.  he tells Christ that he has been keeping the commandments.  Christ tells him 'well done' - 'now go and sell all your possessions and give to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven.

If he did that, then the poor would not be poor anymore, so they would not have treasures in heaven.

I have tried to sell some of my possessions to give to the poor at the Church Jumble Sale. Regretfully the vicar would not accept some of my books.

I should still get treasure in heaven for trying.

Thal

[pianistimo]

nono thal. the poor will see God.  they will never be rich.  they waited on hand-outs too much.  just kidding.

i do think it will be a sort of socialistic - break the bread 40 ways - type of living.  noone seemed to complain when a big piece was broken off and given to one of the children.

[rimv2]

How to wipe out America:


Bone your sister. You will create a new lesser species of man. If everyone in the world, except America, boned his sister then America would no longer be human, as human would be defined by the new subspecies. A conflict between the sapiens and the neosapiens would be inevitable. If America lost, America would be gone. If American won, it would expand into every corner of the world and form a new nation called Liberteria. And thus America would be no more

[pianistimo]

?  now that's crazy!

why are we trying to wipe out america in the first place?  it's a fairly new country (only a little over 200 years old).  look how old other countries are - they should have some kind of example for all the years.  take china for instance.  what did they learn from thousands of years of kow-towing?  now i'm not saying they don't get things done quickly.  i mean - chop chop.  done. 

here, the productivity keeps plummeting (due to lack of teaching that makes kids actually finish a job).  take lawn mowing for instance.  we have a large area of grass behind our home that is supposed to be mowed 12 times a year.  it gets mowed maybe 3 times and the rest of the time there is a cursory swipe or two.  if noone complains - they keep it that way.  that's where our homeowner's association dollars goes?  they must go out to eat and pay their bills and forget about the homeowner's.

we have more and more 'associations.'  i hate that word.  it means nothing will get done.  people use delay tactics of buracracy.  now, i'm not sure how this all translates to dollars because for chinese (who do a good job of anything with sometimes little payment) vs. americans who do a bad job of something and get paid too much probably. - or don't want to do a job for less than such and such.   i think in general the idea that americans think too much of themselves to work at 'lesser' jobs is true.  i wish people would just enjoy working for the pleasure of the job itself.  i respect the chinese for this.    also, i respect their methodical methods.  but, i do not want to be having to go out into a large square and do flag waving and cursory smiling if i  don't feel like it.

we have a conundrum.  efficiency vs. democracy.  there's no doubt that dictators cut the red tape on that one.

*do the chinese still allow spanking.  perhaps this the other half of the efficiency? (just kidding - but partly serious.  i mean - if i was allowed to spank my kids - i could up the efficiency times 10)
 

[rimv2]

What the hell are you talking about

And ....If you were allowed to spank your kids....


They're your children woman!!!! When they step outta line, Beat the hell out of them 

[BoliverAllmon]

What the hell are you talking about

And ....If you were allowed to spank your kids....


They're your children woman!!!! When they step outta line, Beat the hell out of them 

that is the way my dad took care of me and I am grateful for it.

boliver

[penguinlover]

I don't have as much time to devote to writing posts as Pianistimo, but I agree with her.  I do believe that we are headed for the end times very quickly.  There will never be peace on earth, anywhere.  The Bible says there will be wars and rumors of wars.  That is happening.  Utlimately, this is not a war of politics, but of ideas.  It is a war against God and everything He stands for - love, justice, mercy, forgiveness, salvation.  We are fighting for human rights, the right for all people to live without being mistreated by their governmental leaders.  It is a fight between Western and Eastern thought.  It is so wrong of one group of people to want to wipe away another group of people just because they think and believe differently.

I am pretty simple minded when it comes to politics, but I would rather trust a president who prays to God daily, and seeks His guidance than one who trusts in himself.  Man's wisdom is very lacking.  And this hatred of America confuses me.  What other country bombs a country, then seeks to rebuild it - at their own expense - teach the children, install wells for water, clothe and feed the citizens. make sure the electricity works again, tries as best it can to keep the people safe.  What is so wrong about all that?

Just wondering.

[bernhard]

I am pretty simple minded when it comes to politics, but I would rather trust a president who prays to God daily, and seeks His guidance than one who trusts in himself.  Man's wisdom is very lacking.  And this hatred of America confuses me.  What other country bombs a country, then seeks to rebuild it - at their own expense - teach the children, install wells for water, clothe and feed the citizens. make sure the electricity works again, tries as best it can to keep the people safe.  What is so wrong about all that?

Just wondering.

Are you saying then that you implicitly trust Iran´s president? He is a devout, religious man who prays to God at least five times a day, seeks his guidance and is surrounded by equally religious and devout men. They also claim to " teach the children, install wells for water, clothe and feed the citizens. make sure the electricity works again, tries as best it can to keep the people safe."

BW
B.

[BoliverAllmon]

Are you saying then that you implicitly trust Iran´s president? He is a devout, religious man who prays to God at least five times a day, seeks his guidance and is surrounded by equally religious and devout men. They also claim to " teach the children, install wells for water, clothe and feed the citizens. make sure the electricity works again, tries as best it can to keep the people safe."

BW
B.

good point. I don't agree completely with what you are saying. I see a difference between Bush and the Prez of Iran, but I do see the point.

boliver

[penguinlover]

I told you, I don't get into politics much, and I am simple minded concerning all this.  I wouldn't implictly trust anyone.  I wouldn't trust the president of Iran, I don't know anything about him.  I have heard President Bush, and heard him talk of his faith and relationship with God.  Maybe that's because he's my president, and I don't live in Iran.  I was just making a point that we may bomb things, but we try to fix it afterwards.  It doesn't make much sense, I know.  But cleaning up a mess you make seems like the right thing to do.

Now that I think of it, what I said isn't entirely true.  I think I trust Bernhard in his musical advice, and I don't know him.  So, I guess my point isn't well taken.