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Topic: minimum wage  (Read 1918 times)

Offline BoliverAllmon

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minimum wage
on: July 28, 2006, 06:25:33 PM
so do you think the new minimum wage will be increased to 7.25 or no?

boliver

Offline lisztisforkids

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #1 on: July 28, 2006, 06:28:48 PM
I hope so... The last time I read over 80% of the public wants a raise in the mininmum wage, but the seante is divided over the issue.. ::)
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Offline jas

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #2 on: July 28, 2006, 06:38:13 PM
The minimum wage here in the UK is going up soon, from crap to slightly less crap (but not much).

Quote
I hope so... The last time I read over 80% of the public wants a raise in the mininmum wage, but the seante is divided over the issue..
Surprise, surprise! Their qualms will probably mysteriously vanish when it comes to giving themselves pay rises, though. I'm surprised Money-Grabber Blair and his cronies can bring themselves to do it.

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #3 on: July 28, 2006, 07:11:52 PM
I hope so... The last time I read over 80% of the public wants a raise in the mininmum wage, but the seante is divided over the issue.. ::)

i am not sure about the percentage, but I do know that those that are on or around minimum wage want the raise, but those that make 10 bucks or so don't want the raise, because they know that they won't get a raise and may even have to take a cut to compensate for the raise of other people's wages.

boliver

Offline musik_man

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #4 on: July 28, 2006, 08:43:32 PM
The minimum wage is really just about the worst way to help the poor, because it causes unemployment.  You'd be better off increasing the EITC (Earned Income Tax Credit.)  The EITC works like this.  If you make below a certain salary, instead of paying taxes the government sends you a check.
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #5 on: July 28, 2006, 09:09:21 PM
I'm surprised Money-Grabber Blair and his cronies can bring themselves to do it.

You have spelt his name wrong.

It is Bliar.
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Offline lisztisforkids

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #6 on: July 28, 2006, 09:47:25 PM
The minimum wage is really just about the worst way to help the poor, because it causes unemployment.  You'd be better off increasing the EITC (Earned Income Tax Credit.)  The EITC works like this.  If you make below a certain salary, instead of paying taxes the government sends you a check.

 All the studys I have read actually say raising the Mininmum wage dose not afect employment almost at all. I have never heard of the EITC, is it like a form of welfare? Instead of making a new welfare system lets make it so that we dont need to help out the poor...
we make God in mans image

Offline musik_man

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #7 on: July 29, 2006, 05:18:18 AM
All the studys I have read actually say raising the Mininmum wage dose not afect employment almost at all. I have never heard of the EITC, is it like a form of welfare? Instead of making a new welfare system lets make it so that we dont need to help out the poor...

It hasn't caused unemployement because it is so low.  If it was moved to say 15 dollars an hour, it would take lots of people out of work.

You're really just trying to get a free lunch.  If workers are paid more than they produce, someone has to pay for it.  Businessmen aren't going to take a loss employing low wage workers.  The only way to avoid this is to raise the value of minimum wage labor.  The mechanism for this is to reduce the supply of labor (aka to create some unemployment.)  The easiest way to understand the minimum wage is to call it what it is, a price control.  The goverment is mandating the lowest that you are allowed to sell a certain good(labor) at. 

The EITC isn't the same as welfare.  Welfare is money you recieve from the government when you don't work.  The EITC is only recieved by low wage workers.  It's a redistribution of money from society at large to the poor who work.  Compare that to minimum wage.  There is still a redistribution, from those who consume goods produced with minimum wage labor to the workers who produced them (ironically these are often the same people in which case no one is better off.)  Additionally, you get the unemployment mentioned earlier.  The EITC is just out and out a better method to give more money to low wage workers.
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Offline pianistimo

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #8 on: July 29, 2006, 08:30:56 AM
an hour ago the minimum wage went up to $7.25  if i'm reading the ny times correctly.  they tricked the democrats into signing a conglomerate of a bill so that the estate tax would also get passed.  not sure what people think of that - but it would be phased out for under a million dollars by 2010.  they want to reinstate it in 2011.

Offline zheer

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #9 on: July 29, 2006, 08:39:35 AM
 I was payd £3.75 per hour in my first proper job.
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline pianistimo

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #10 on: July 29, 2006, 08:44:06 AM
they should change it from the word 'minimum' to 'liveable.'

Offline zheer

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #11 on: July 29, 2006, 09:20:21 AM
they should change it from the word 'minimum' to 'liveable.'

   The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, somethings well never change.
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline pianistimo

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #12 on: July 29, 2006, 09:27:25 AM
a man with a positive attitude is rich already.  most rich realize that money isn't anything.  my motto is 'no matter how much you get paid for a job, do it excellently.'

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #13 on: July 29, 2006, 10:19:43 AM
no matter how much you get paid for a job, do it excellently.'

why?
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Offline ada

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #14 on: July 29, 2006, 10:39:10 AM
'no matter how much you get paid for a job, do it excellently.'

with respect, that sounds like the sort of trite aphorism you'd find on the bottom of a desk calandar written by some a**hole boss who wants to exploit his workers.

Workers have rights and should fight for them. If you value your labour you should expect the same from the person who's buying it.
Bach almost persuades me to be a Christian.
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #15 on: July 29, 2006, 11:58:39 AM
with respect, that sounds like the sort of trite aphorism you'd find on the bottom of a desk calandar written by some a**hole boss who wants to exploit his workers.

Workers have rights and should fight for them. If you value your labour you should expect the same from the person who's buying it.

Top quality post.
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Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #16 on: July 29, 2006, 02:38:54 PM
an hour ago the minimum wage went up to $7.25  if i'm reading the ny times correctly.  they tricked the democrats into signing a conglomerate of a bill so that the estate tax would also get passed.  not sure what people think of that - but it would be phased out for under a million dollars by 2010.  they want to reinstate it in 2011.

True the Republicans told the Dems that they would go along with the wage increase only if they went along with the estate tax cut.

boliver

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #17 on: July 29, 2006, 02:45:59 PM
with respect, that sounds like the sort of trite aphorism you'd find on the bottom of a desk calandar written by some a**hole boss who wants to exploit his workers.

Workers have rights and should fight for them. If you value your labour you should expect the same from the person who's buying it.

the problem that arises with this is that people value their labor too highly. They form unions and require absurd demands or they strike. Should someone get paid fairly? ABSOLUTELY! I think the raise is a good thing on paper, not sure how it will play out in reality (the economics of it all)

boliver

Offline quantum

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #18 on: July 30, 2006, 02:28:42 AM
a man with a positive attitude is rich already.  most rich realize that money isn't anything.  my motto is 'no matter how much you get paid for a job, do it excellently.'

Amen
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline brewtality

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #19 on: July 30, 2006, 06:01:03 AM
It hasn't caused unemployement because it is so low.  If it was moved to say 15 dollars an hour, it would take lots of people out of work.

You're really just trying to get a free lunch.  If workers are paid more than they produce, someone has to pay for it.  Businessmen aren't going to take a loss employing low wage workers.  The only way to avoid this is to raise the value of minimum wage labor.  The mechanism for this is to reduce the supply of labor (aka to create some unemployment.)  The easiest way to understand the minimum wage is to call it what it is, a price control.  The goverment is mandating the lowest that you are allowed to sell a certain good(labor) at. 


I agree with this. Apart from wage increases in line with inflation, the wages should only be increased if there is sufficient productivity increases to justify it.

Offline gorbee natcase

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #20 on: August 06, 2006, 08:25:33 PM
   The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, somethings well never change.
I like it that way
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Offline zheer

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #21 on: August 06, 2006, 08:31:20 PM
I like it that way

    Sheesh thats honest. 8)
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Offline prometheus

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #22 on: August 06, 2006, 08:38:55 PM
Until the poor come and butcher you, which always happens if you look at the past.
"As an artist you don't rake in a million marks without performing some sacrifice on the Altar of Art." -Franz Liszt

Offline ahinton

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #23 on: August 06, 2006, 09:44:11 PM
I suppose that, because of the thread title, the discussion necessarily has to centre on those who are employed. Nothing wrong with that, of course. Those who are self-employed, however, are in another situation altogether. Some simply don't ever make anything like that much, because whatever turnover they may derive, their profit may sometimes make the "minimum wage" look attractive by comparison.

Even Britain's The Daily Telegraph newspaper - reckoned to be one of the more politically right-wing type - sported a front page headline yesterday to the effect that one Brit now goes bust every minute. One should, of course, be wary of statistics but, if this is to be believed (and I'm not saying that it is, as I do not personally have incontrovertible proof of its veracity), that means that over 10,000 British people are going bankrupt every week; on that basis, almost one in every hundred of the British population - men, women and children - are currently going bankrupt. Many of these are self-employed people; it's not so easy to opt for bankruptcy if you are employed (although it's far from impossible).

A company with which we had some dealings a while ago had an annual  turnover of just over £38,000,000 and made an annual profit of just under £800,000. It went bust. Who's surprised? Moral? Turn over £100,000,000 annually and make a profit of £900,000 and you've had it; turn over £1,000 and make a profit of £999 and you've got it made - you won't live on it, though...

Another statistic recently reported in UK is that British people's total borrowings now exceed £1,000,000,000,000 (i.e. one trillion pounds); this looks slightly alarming when yet another statistic claims that Britain's total assets are valued at less that six times that figure.

But we're doing fine over here, actually; gasoline is only around $9 a gallon and the average taxpayer pays less than 61% of his/her annual income in taxes of all kinds. Someone I know has just left university, having spent nine years collecting four good degrees and academic debts of a mere £110,000; he's just borrowed another amount rather higher than that to put down a deposit on an apartment in London on which he has successfully arranged a mortgage of £600,000. So, he's well less than a million pounds in debt, so, if he ends up as one of those average Brits that pays some 60% of his income away in taxes, he'll manage OK, provided that he can land a position with a gross salary before tax of at least three quarters of a million pounds a year or turn over rather more than that much in his own business.

And people wonder why so many Poles, Hungarians, Czechs etc. have chosen to come over here to find work since their countries joined the EC. Hmmm... It's the Rumanians' and the Bulgarians' turn next year - then perhaps Turkey (which has a border with Iraq) and then, who knows? There's a possibility that another 50 or so more nations may wish to join eventually; will their peoples all want to come to Britain and get used to our economic life as we currently understand but fail to manage it, or will they just sit back where they now are and continue to blame the Brits for forcing prices up wherever they themselves go? There are many, after all, who hold the Brits largely responsible for buying properties in other countries and forcing up their prices so that they become unaffordable for the locals but, since it has become so impossible to afford to continue living in UK, can you blame them? People of various different persuasions may currently have North Korea, Iran, Israel, etc, in their sights as the principal bête noire nation, but in the end it would not surprise me if Britain - for quite different reasons - ended up as the world's most unpopular country for its apparent determination to infect everyone else with its economic woes; we're dam' good at it, after all...

Best,

Alistair
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #24 on: August 06, 2006, 10:26:48 PM

And people wonder why so many Poles, Hungarians, Czechs etc. have chosen to come over here to find work since their countries joined the EC. Hmmm... It's the Rumanians' and the Bulgarians' turn next year - then perhaps Turkey (which has a border with Iraq) and then, who knows?

Yes, President Bliar has imported 15,000 Polish plumbers who are prepared to work for 20p a week.

On the downside, in a couple of years we will have no water left.

Thal
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Offline ramseytheii

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #25 on: August 06, 2006, 10:53:11 PM
An article in an American paper nicely described the minimum wage problem, noting that statistics are in abundance proving that raises in MW either cause unemployment, or on the reverse that they benefit the job market.  Even the Federal Reserve Chairman, granted a Bush appointee, said it was a "controversial issue" amongst economists.

A surprising stastic the paper pointed out was that most people making minimum wage are not the sole income producers for their family unit, and those units for the most part (61%) are not below the poverty line.  We tend to think of those working for minimum wage as the poor and unskilled, but think of all the "suburban teenagers," as the article points out, working in huge corporate bookstores, retail shops, fast food chains, et cetera.  And not only that, but some spouses work nominally for the minimum wage, while the other is the main income producer for the unit.

Does that mean that the minimum wage is not important, of course not.  But to use it as a political tool to garner the support of those who are emotionally affected by poverty is disingenuous.

Walter Ramsey

Offline zheer

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Re: minimum wage
Reply #26 on: August 07, 2006, 05:36:57 AM
Until the poor come and butcher you, which always happens if you look at the past.

   There is no shame in being poor as we all know,but being greedy is shamefull. The thing about being butcherd by the poor, well thats so true, and i guess that applies to most Royal families and dictators.
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