Enough is Enough and you are right

[BoliverAllmon]

No ***?

I was sure Id watched one of your vids. Oops, must be the other Boliver...

Well in that case, good luck mate and when you get back have a pint on me 

SJ

only vid of me on here is me playing  a bach invention in Bb and only shows my hands.

boliver

[BoliverAllmon]

yep, I plan on continuing music as soon as I am out of boot camp and AIT. I am thinking instead of working night and day to try to barely get by with grade 8, I may find a teacher and do something like grade 5 or so. That way I can work on piano, but still work on other musical stuff I want to (jazz piano, guitar, composing, stuff like that).

Yes Thalbergmad, I will come back with hands. The only thing I will lose is my gut, which is more than some can say. HHHHHMMMMMM......

[mephisto]

------------------

[pianistimo]

you may be more encouragement to him than you know.  probably tactics the army uses to toughen them up.  *wonders if buddies ever say this to each other?  boliver - bring a bible.  can't think of a better weapon than that.

[brewtality]

yeehaw, be sure to bag plenty o' injuns.

[pianistimo]

the thing is - they are most culturally suited to the environment.  whereas it may take several months for our soldiers to get used to the environment - if at all.  (the water, the general conditions, the landscape).  i hope the army has some kind of computer simulation so when you get lost - you can tell which way to go.  that would be my fear more than anything 'where am i?'  you can't exactly go up to a stranger and say - 'me american.  me want to go home.' 

ok. boliver.  here's what you do.  you start an intensive program of learning arabic.  how can one get by without that?  then, you start practicing how to wrap one of those turbans on your head.  learn the best ways to stay cool and get sand out of shoes.  even take a little belly dancing in case you are caught and have to humor people.  but, never ever give up your shoes.  can you imagine walking in that hot sand?  yikes.  now - if i understand correctly - their seasons are all messed up.  when it becomes winter here it's summer there?   so you just missed winter.  what is winter like in a more equaliateral zone?  hot?  so summer is just hotter? 

say...try eating some of the local stuff ahead of time, too, to develop a taste for it.  goat cheese, grapes, figs, qumquats, grape leaves, rice, soybean pasta.  who knows, you may end up liking the place and staying (an oasis or something).

[brewtality]

you may be more encouragement to him than you know.  probably tactics the army uses to toughen them up.  *wonders if buddies ever say this to each other?  boliver - bring a bible.  can't think of a better weapon than that.

Yeah, a mighty wack upside the head should sort those heathens out...

[BoliverAllmon]

Hopefully you will.......die.

nope sure won't. only in your dreams. Why would you want that anyways?

boliver

[mephisto]

---------------------

[prometheus]

Mephisto, you don't blame soldiers. Not even when they are volunteering. Soldiers are not to be held responsible for their own actions. Not even when they are not following orders. All the responsibility falls on their leadership. Especially the civilians all the way at the top. Rumsfelt, Cheney and Bush.

BoliverAllmon, if something happens to him, will be just another one of their victims.

[freakofnature]

who says the majority wants us out? If the people elected a certain government and that government is asking for our help, wouldn't that mean that we should help?

Along with the reasons prometheus already gave: The US invasion has caused such a chaos in Iraq that is bordering to a civil war, that the forces of the elected iraqi government are not nearly able to restore peace within their own country.

To be honest, I am quite shocked that you really want to join the army and maybe give your life in a war for a government, that started an unjustified attack on a country that was in no way any threat to the US or any other country - and therefore being against international law. But it's no surprise that the US government refuses to sign treaties that could hold them guilty for their crimes...

But I wish you the best and hope that you come back healthy (physically and mentally) - and not being one of the soldiers that were killing civilians or torturing prisoners of war...

[mephisto]

Mephisto, you don't blame soldiers. Not even when they are volunteering. Soldiers are not to be held responsible for their own actions. Not even when they are not following orders. All the responsibility falls on their leadership. Especially the civilians all the way at the top. Rumsfelt, Cheney and Bush.

BoliverAllmon, if something happens to him, will be just another one of their victims.

Well that is debatable, but I can see that you have a point.

[BoliverAllmon]

You will join an army that has a goal to kill civillians. Instead of you doing that I would like to see you dead.

I love you too.

[Derek]

I keep hearing the statement that says, "if you are so pro-military and America why don't you join?" well, I use to make all sorts of excuses and stuff, but no more. I quit my piano lessons and joined the army. I leave for Ft. Jackson, South Carolina for boot camp around mid-september. I am proud to be an American and I am proud to serve my country.

boliver

Thank god there are people like you in this country man, you make me very, very proud. You almost make me want to join! Now go forth and kick ass, soldier! 

[gilad]

boliver, it would be a shame to see you dead, it would be a shame to see anyone dead. if you do service in iraq, take care and be a good boy.

[zheer]

boliver, it would be a shame to see you dead, it would be a shame to see anyone dead. if you do service in iraq, take care and be a good boy.

   If he does work in military, they will make him play the piano and make tea and breakfast.

[jakev2.0]

You will join an army that has a goal to kill civillians. Instead of you doing that I would like to see you dead.

This is an appalling statement.

[mephisto]

I love you too.

I don`t love you. You aren`t worth the dirt you stand on.

[musik_man]

I don`t love you. You aren`t worth the dirt you stand on.

Seriously, you are a d*ck.  At least Bolliver has the guts to stand up for what he believes in.  He's willing to put his life on the line.  All that your beliefs inspire in you  is the ability to abandon even the smallest shred of decency.

BTW Boliver, do you know in what type of unit you will be serving?

[thalbergmad]

Seriously, you are a d*ck. 

Duck?

[nanabush]

Wow, mephisto, are you kidding me.... your arguments are the most worthless pieces of sh*t ever.  Right now your just uselessly flaming someone who wanted to tell the ppl on Pianoforum that their joining the army; you have issues man, go find another hobby.

[BoliverAllmon]

Seriously, you are a d*ck.  At least Bolliver has the guts to stand up for what he believes in.  He's willing to put his life on the line.  All that your beliefs inspire in you  is the ability to abandon even the smallest shred of decency.

BTW Boliver, do you know in what type of unit you will be serving?

I am debating between army and marines. Either way I want to go in as a Chaplain or Chaplain's assistant (it is called something else in the marines). I am leaning towards the marines tonight. I have this feeling that if you are going to do something do it all the way. That is why I spent hours on hours playing the piano. The marines is definately more grueling than the army. I mean they are notorious for being insanely difficult.

boliver

[JCarey]

Hopefully you will.......die.

You will join an army that has a goal to kill civillians. Instead of you doing that I would like to see you dead.

I don`t love you. You aren`t worth the dirt you stand on.

This is absolutely disgusting.

Good for you, Boliver. We need more people with guts like you! Good luck, and take care of yourself out there.

[rimv2]

I don`t love you. You aren`t worth the dirt you stand on.

You will join an army that has a goal to kill civillians. Instead of you doing that I would like to see you dead.

Ah see what you mean. Some armies juss seem to love killing civilians. They even have it written as their mission objectives "Kill Civilians." It's right between "You're a pussie a$$ mama's boy" and "Get the fuk out of the house sometime!!!!"

Some army fought so that you could type on your shittie computer.

Stop wasting space and end your fukking pathetic, miserable life you attention craving, ignorant fuk.

Brokeback be-itch!!!

Seriously, you are a d*ck.  At least Bolliver has the guts to stand up for what he believes in.  He's willing to put his life on the line.  All that your beliefs inspire in you  is the ability to abandon even the smallest shred of decency.

Mr. Allmon

Ahd tip mah cowboy hat to your choice.... if ah owned one.

So ah give you this

[mephisto]

Can some of you explain why my comments are stupid.

Do you doubt that the US army kills civilians?

[freakofnature]

Can some of you explain why my comments are stupid.

Do you doubt that the US army kills civilians?

Brainwashed by the American Media?
A Government that strengthens the fear of it's people?

There are quite a few reasons why some people fail to see that the US army and government aren't the 'good ones' (tm) in this war...

[quasimodo]

Brainwashed by the American Media?
A Government that strengthens the fear of it's people?

There are quite a few reasons why some people fail to see that the US army and government aren't the 'good ones' (tm) in this war...

Are you implying that American media are infiltrated by islamist terrorists ?

[pianistimo]

this is exactly why Christ had to die.  both sides are wrong.  terribly wrong.  but, one side is going to win, regardless, temporarily.  bible prophecy says that 'the beast power' (unity of 10 nations or 10 toes of image spoken of in daniel) will have reign over the entire earth for a time.  even over jerusalem.  that there will be something set up at the temple mount (abomination of desolation) - something unholy - as someone will be mocking both sides.  something to unite the world as we know it.  but, yet - just as the emperors that proclaimed themselves gods died - we know that this government won't last either.  and that the true nature of satan - death - and destruction - will be replaced with lasting peace and hope.  if Christ is not returning, there is no hope for the world.  we cannot 'make peace.'

i have no ideas of the details - other than the signs that have already been produced.  we just watch as things unfold and say - yep, that's what the bible says.  it's not like we're prophets - we just repeat the prophets and say - turn from sinning and be holy and pray.  change today and not tommorrow.  applause to boliver for using prayer as a weapon.  it's a much better one.  the scriptures say that after Christ returns 'swords will be turned into plowshares - and spears into pruning hooks - nation will not lift up sword against nation and neither will they LEARN war anymore.'

[pianistimo]

ps about prayer 'as a weapon...'  i mean as a weapon for spiritual warfare.  'for we wrestle not against flesh and blood - but against principalities and powers - of the darkness of this world - against spiritual wickedness in high places....'  i think christians are praying for Christ to return and for the world to be set right.  and, for the enemy (satan) to be defeated.  if we pray that God will cut short the time - we will see less death and destruction - and our prayers for peace will be realized.

[rimv2]

Can some of you explain why my comments are stupid.

Do you doubt that the US army kills civilians?

All armies have killed civilians.
(and a fuk load at that)

Its only evil when its overly televized

When it comes from Americans

Too many pussies in this world

[quasimodo]

All armies have killed civilians.
(and a fuk load at that)

Its only evil when its overly televized

When it comes from Americans

Too many pussies in this world

The point is that Mr GW Bush, supreme chief of US Army, claims to be the ultimate defender of good against evil.

And now, when you don't find it a good thing that overarmed militaries kill civilians you're a pussy, huh? What you've just wrote make it unnecessary to denigrate the militarist cowboy mentality. Quite self-explanatory.

[rimv2]

The war in Iraq has become everyone's excuse to say they are better than Americans. That their countries have something over ours.

We didnt go in alone. But it seems we have to leave that way. Sounds logical right.

I have a suggestion to every puss who has ever whined about the war. Gun up.

Go in and help so this *** can be over. Instead of sitting on your butts and supporting by the opposition by criticizing every effort. You all make the soldiers battles that much harder. Quit spittin on them and start helping them assholes

The point is that Mr GW Bush, supreme chief of US Army, claims to be the ultimate defender of good against evil.

And now, when you don't find it a good thing that overarmed militaries kill civilians you're a pussy, huh? What you've just wrote make it unnecessary to denigrate the militarist cowboy mentality. Quite self-explanatory.

No you are pussie when you criticize but dont fight. Dont get it twisted. And i dont have a cowboy mentallity, i juss use the cowboy stereotype because that what people associate us with. It's called irony, shmuck.

[quasimodo]

The war in Iraq has become everyone's excuse to say they are better than Americans. That their countries have something over ours.

We didnt go in alone. But it seems we have to leave that way. Sounds logical right.

I have a suggestion to every puss who has ever whined about the war. Gun up.

Go in and help so this *** can be over. Instead of sitting on your butts and supporting by the opposition by criticizing every effort. You all make the soldiers battles that much harder. Quit spittin on them and start helping them assholes

No you are pussie when you criticize but dont fight. Dont get it twisted. And i dont have a cowboy mentallity, i juss use the cowboy stereotype because that what people associate us with. It's called irony, shmuck.

Yes USA did go alone, or almost, obviously there were some minor partners who symbolically sent some troups there to show some solidarity, but if I remember well, a huge majority of UN members tried to dissuade the US government to go for it. However USA went for it, fair enough. But now, why should the rest of the world put their hands in the dirt to fix the big mess Bush has created?

Actually you Americans are the ones whining about war. Either you are pissed off because of the 70 billion dollars of your taxes your governement is throwing at a hopeless cause that wouldn't exist if USA didn't go for the war, or you are pissed by the ironic look of the international community at a superpower desperately glued in a country that nobody really cares about... except a few companies like Halliburton 

[zheer]

I have a suggestion to every puss who has ever whined about the war. Gun up.

  Just say my name three time rimv2, and we will see whos the reall puss.

[rimv2]

Yes USA did go alone, or almost, obviously there were some minor partners who symbolically sent some troups there to show some solidarity, but if I remember well, a huge majority of UN members tried to dissuade the US government to go for it. However USA went for it, fair enough. But now, why should the rest of the world put their hands in the dirt to fix the big mess Bush has created?

Actually you Americans are the ones whining about war. Either you are pissed off because of the 70 billion dollars of your taxes your governement is throwing at a hopeless cause that wouldn't exist if USA didn't go for the war, or you are pissed by the ironic look of the international community at a superpower desperately glued in a country that nobody really cares about... except a few companies like Halliburton 

Which is why ah say anyone. Ahm not just talkin about trash talking foreigners (there will inevitably come a time when the situation is reversed) Ahm talkin bout people everywhere.

And your ending quip would actually cause a negative stir in me if it held true. People do care about this country. Unfortunately, they are the wrong people. They are the type of people who kill women and children for no other cause but to validate their own existence. They dont except that ultimately one's owns beliefs are one's own and that holding one's belief above another creates conflict. And conflict they have created.


We could all sit on our high horses and say people should do this, and people should react like that, and that the high road is the best road.


Unfortunately the high road is nothing more than an intellectual construct. If someone shoots your brother you want blood. If someone rapes your sister you want blood. You dont think to yourself "i know they've done wrong but i forgive them and hope they will accept the lord jesus christ into their hears and be forgiven." There are only actions and reactions.

This community believes this -and that community believes that. One takes action to get the other side to see its perspective but other side doesnt respond as expected and vice versa. Both side fail to see that if and action fails to produce a desired result it is the wrong action. Neither side itself is wrong but both go about bringing reactions in the other the wrong way.

You cant insult mohammed and say "laugh b!tch" much like you cant crash a building into a plane and say "leave me alone." It just doesnt work.

Now i know whay you might be thinking. See above posts, right. Follow what you teach, right.

My personal belief: Anyone who thinks a person deserves to die because he join the military is not worth establishing any sort of rapport with. I hope one day something sparks in your mind to change such a thought, but until that day comes, you might as well not marry, not have children, and or shoot yourself in head. Because you obviously dont believe in standing up for yourself or your beliefs

Prove me wrong

[rimv2]

But now, why should the rest of the world put their hands in the dirt to fix the big mess Bush has created?

Because they're comin for you next. Do you honestly think they'll go "Okay we got the Americans, we will now stop killing people"?

If you do believe this, that's fine. I dont really care.

But if you do have a brain you will realize that America is just the focus of their current delusion. Wait, no.... it's not... They terrorize all over the world dont they.

Alright, here's a suggestion. Dont join in.

But dont criticize either, you only strengthen their morale.

Sound fair?

[quasimodo]

My personal belief: Anyone who thinks a person deserves to die because he join the military is not worth establishing any sort of rapport with. I hope one day something sparks in your mind to change such a thought, but until that day comes, you might as well not marry, not have children, and or shoot yourself in head. Because you obviously dont believe in standing up for yourself or your beliefs

Prove me wrong

You must be confusing, here, I was not the one to say I wished the guy dead.

[bernhard]

I am starting to wonder if this thread is not Pocorina-inspired.

[quasimodo]

I am starting to wonder if this thread is not Pocorina-inspired.

Lol, how cynical  !

[steve jones]

You will join an army that has a goal to kill civillians. Instead of you doing that I would like to see you dead.

Haha, I just love lefty bullshit 

I always thought it was meant to be crazy right wing dictators who got to say stuff like that?

But then again, the difference is negligible...

SJ

[steve jones]

I don`t love you. You aren`t worth the dirt you stand on.

Isnt that the pot calling the kettle black?

*** trolling idiot...

SJ

[ada]

I am starting to wonder if this thread is not Pocorina-inspired.

hahahaha that thought crossed my mind too.

Unfortunately, I think it is deadly serious.

Ah am American!
Ah believe in god, guns and greed!
Ah was raised on xenophobia, bibles and bigotry!
Ah was fattened on fast food an lies!
Ah live in the land chosen by god to rule thuh world!
Ah will spread democracy under thuh shadow of a fighter plane!
Ah will fight for mah freedom of speech
but don't call mah country a war mongerer you f**k or ah will blow your face off!
Ah remember the war in Vietnam! Ah rember the war in Vietnam!

God bless America!! God bless America!! God Bless America!!

[steve jones]

Lol, the funny thing about this entire thread is that its based from the ground up on lame assumptions and vague opinions. There is not one person on this thread who knows enough to have a VALID opinion on the subject, yet some feel enough conviction to wish death to another.

Like I say... LOL!!!

If someone can tell me the truth about why the US invaded Iraq, that would be a start.

Then we might be able to have a discussion.

But as it is, no one here understands the politics or the economics behind this war. And I find this notion of Bush wanting to steel oil to be so gobsmackingly stupid it makes my head hurt. Like the guy is going to sit in his back garden cuddling a barrel or crude, haha.

I really dont know why some people cant just except that they arent capable of comprehending the situation, and allow their superiors to make such judgements on behalf of them. This is the reality is it not? So I find it insane to hear people spouting such tripe as if they're argueing over which are better - Cocopops or Frosties.

SJ

[steve jones]

Can some of you explain why my comments are stupid.

Do you doubt that the US army kills civilians?

Not at all, I know they do.

My question is, what is your point?

Are you trying to say that you disagree with the Iraq war, and hold the soldiers responsible at penalty of death?

Wow, your humanity is like devine light! 

Id be interested to know what you'd answer to this question...

G W Bush announces on the evening news that he must go to the middle East and murder 1 million civies, or else the American way of life crumbles overnight. Shortly after the US will be invaded by its enemies and the USA (along with its people) will be no more).

Do you give him your blessing? Or do you stick to your moral guns and allow your people to be destroyed?

Infact, I would be interested to know what everyone would answer to that.

SJ

[quasimodo]

Id be interested to know what you'd answer to this question...

G W Bush announces on the evening news that he must go to the middle East and murder 1 million civies, or else the American way of life crumbles overnight. Shortly after the US will be invaded by its enemies and the USA (along with its people) will be no more).

Do you give him your blessing? Or do you stick to your moral guns and allow your people to be destroyed?

Infact, I would be interested to know what everyone would answer to that.

SJ

That's just an intellectual construct. In reality no one would have the assurance that the threat is real and whenever it was, if the killing of the million civilians would solve the problem.

But you've made the best point in your previous post: the fact is we as simple citizens don't have, will never have the information about what's really behind political leader's decisions. And those guys job is to bullshit us.

That's where Bolliver's decision is saddening. He is going to expose his life for motives he doesn't understand.

[bernhard]

Mr. Allmon

Ahd tip mah cowboy hat to your choice.... if ah owned one.

So ah give you this

I find it very fitting and appropriate that you give Mr. Allmon by way of homage... a puppet. (you can even see the strings)

[steve jones]

That's just an intellectual construct. In reality no one would have the assurance that the threat is real and whenever it was, if the killing of the million civilians would solve the problem.

But you've made the best point in your previous post: the fact is we as simple citizens don't have, will never have the information about what's really behind political leader's decisions. And those guys job is to bullshit us.

That's where Bolliver's decision is saddening. He is going to expose his life for motives he doesn't understand.

Indeed. Iv said many times that I would rather go to jail than to Iraq. In the UK, they seem to have dealt without soldiers with great disregard. They even had them handing out flyers and that, while they were getting bombed and shot at!

But thats my opinion. I consider my life to worth more than some political agenda. If I had been given the full facts and there implications (rather than lorry load full of spin) then I might be singing another tune.

About my questions - ofcourse, this is a hypothetical scenerio. But never the less, I would be interested to know what people felt about it. It really points to the underlying philosophy with which we base our moral judgements. And quite often, attempting to answer problems like this can lead to the exposure of major logical flaws.

Particularly in these lunatic fridge muppets... 

SJ

[BoliverAllmon]

That's where Bolliver's decision is saddening. He is going to expose his life for motives he doesn't understand.

I don't have to know the motives behind the war in Iraq. I am not joining 100% because of Iraq. I have other reasons and feelings.

boliver

[quasimodo]

I don't have to know the motives behind the war in Iraq. I am not joining 100% because of Iraq. I have other reasons and feelings.

boliver

As it was stated before, we don't know where you'll be positionned. The point is that a soldier has nothing else to do but obey orders, if the orders are "Shoot to kill" then you will shoot to kill, no matter what the motives are. If this your conception of standing up for your beliefs, we don't have anything to say. However, it's a little bit strange coming from you who often defend Christian values.

[BoliverAllmon]

As it was stated before, we don't know where you'll be positionned. The point is that a soldier has nothing else to do but obey orders, if the orders are "Shoot to kill" then you will shoot to kill, no matter what the motives are. If this your conception of standing up for your beliefs, we don't have anything to say. However, it's a little bit strange coming from you who often defend Christian values.

did you read the whole bit about going in as a chaplain? Chaplain is the only position in the entire military that has no weapons training and is not required to carry a fire-arm, so that command will never come.

boliver