Are you satisfied with the time you put in ?

[m1469]

I am putting this in the performance section because this topic probably has to do mostly with those things which would fall under the category of "practice/practise".

The essence of what I am wondering, specifically, is whether or not you feel you are getting the kind of time in with your pianistic endeavors that you would like to be ?  If not, what is getting in your way ?

As I think about my life-prospects and some of the choices I feel I have, I find myself continuously wishing to better focus my overall energies and efforts.  Some people believe that you can "do it all", meaning, there is a way to do many different things with great success. 

While I am not aiming to argue about this specific point, I do wonder how many people who may be doing several different things (like seriously studying more than one instrument or trying to balance a career in a different field with what you want to be doing musically) feel as though they are actually achieving what they want to be achieving ?... or do you constantly find yourself feeling torn and wishing you had more time for one or the other ? or that you have not achieved what you would really like to achieve with one or the other ?


Thanks in advance for your comments and insights,
m1469

[stevie]

i have all my time to devote to piano, and i manage to devote about 20% of time to it, and the rest is random chatting and wank, this is perhaps a waste of time, but perhaps also a surprisingly quick reply.

[ted]

I cannot speak for others but as far as I am concerned, beyond a healthy minimum, my internal musical reward is not proportional to the time I spend on music. If one man can mow a lawn in half an hour it does not follow that a million men can mow it in a fraction of a second. If I am well pleased with the results of half an hour's playing it does not follow that I would be in a state of ecstasy had I spent all day at the piano.

Then again, I am not as driven as some on the forum. I like a healthy portion of idleness, contemplation and spare time. In any case I'm probably not a good enough musician (it's questionable whether I am one at all) to justify my getting worried about time, goals and achievements. I am at present phasing myself out of the workforce, and much of the resulting free time is spent on music, but I shan't become neurotically possessive about it.

So the short answer is yes, I am satisfied.

[e60m5]

The essence of what I am wondering, specifically, is whether or not you feel you are getting the kind of time in with your pianistic endeavors that you would like to be ?  If not, what is getting in your way ?

As I think about my life-prospects and some of the choices I feel I have, I find myself continuously wishing to better focus my overall energies and efforts.  Some people believe that you can "do it all", meaning, there is a way to do many different things with great success. 

While I am not aiming to argue about this specific point, I do wonder how many people who may be doing several different things (like seriously studying more than one instrument or trying to balance a career in a different field with what you want to be doing musically) feel as though they are actually achieving what they want to be achieving ?... or do you constantly find yourself feeling torn and wishing you had more time for one or the other ? or that you have not achieved what you would really like to achieve with one or the other ?


Thanks in advance for your comments and insights,
m1469

In my view there are two distinct questions with two distinct answers here.  The first question relates to the amount of time spent at the piano, and whether the respondent is satisfied by this amount.  But the second question, relating to whether the respondent feels as though they are actually achieving what they want to be achieving, is not directly linked to time spent at the piano (though of course it is clearly a relevant factor!).  I make this distinction because while I can quite truthfully answer that I would love to spend more time at the piano, I also feel like I am achieving all that I would like to achieve in both my career and my music. 

The time that I would like to spend at the piano which I am unable to do so from time to time due to other commitments is usually (though not always) time I would spend playing for enjoyment, so the practice/play dichotomy rears its ugly head again.  =)  But that seems to be to be only one factor out of many which contribute to the end result. 

Something I am beginning to understand is that I am starting to be very glad to have more in my life than just my music.  I would not like music to be the sole element of my life (though I definitely do want it to be among the most prominent).  If music were all to life, what would there be to do but to play and to practice and to learn?  At times that can be a very appealing prospect, but at other times, definitely not.  I am starting to appreciate having less time at the keyboard and having to cut down the number of works I am working on - it makes me enjoy those that I am working on that much more.  I feel that balance is always necessary, but am not convinced entirely that balance precludes achievement in the balanced fields - though obviously I am not sure how the future will play out in relation to this - doesn't seem to have worked out so badly so far!

In short, then, though I would like to spend more time at the keyboard, I don't feel that it is utterly necessary and I would not (figuratively) kill to do so, but I do not feel as if it has an adverse effect on my musical achievements (and nor do I feel that the time I spend on my music has any adverse effect on my other achievements and pursuits).  I feel that my commitments benefit from each other - I feel that my music is made stronger by my law, and that my law is made stronger by my music. 

[rc]

Something I am beginning to understand is that I am starting to be very glad to have more in my life than just my music.  I would not like music to be the sole element of my life (though I definitely do want it to be among the most prominent).  If music were all to life, what would there be to do but to play and to practice and to learn?  At times that can be a very appealing prospect, but at other times, definitely not.  I am starting to appreciate having less time at the keyboard and having to cut down the number of works I am working on - it makes me enjoy those that I am working on that much more.  I feel that balance is always necessary, but am not convinced entirely that balance precludes achievement in the balanced fields - though obviously I am not sure how the future will play out in relation to this - doesn't seem to have worked out so badly so far!

In short, then, though I would like to spend more time at the keyboard, I don't feel that it is utterly necessary and I would not (figuratively) kill to do so, but I do not feel as if it has an adverse effect on my musical achievements (and nor do I feel that the time I spend on my music has any adverse effect on my other achievements and pursuits).  I feel that my commitments benefit from each other - I feel that my music is made stronger by my law, and that my law is made stronger by my music. 

I like this perspective.

[penguinlover]

For me, the answer is No, I never seem to get enough time for the piano.  I stopped seriously practicing after college, and had a family.  Not that I would give up my family, but it sure puts a damper on practicing, or even playing for enjoyment. 

I am finding more time now, my kids are in college and married, so the house is a bit more quiet.  But, all those years lost.  I can't remember any of my pieces that I loved.  My technique sucks.  And the more I read the posts on this forum, I feel outdated, stupid, inferior, etc.  I know you didn't ask for it, but let me give a bit of advice to anyone interested.  Don't stop practicing for any reason, it is very hard to come back.  Make some time for yourself, to fulfill your own dreams.  The quantity of time doesn't matter so much, just that you get some time.  I am never satisfied with my playing anymore, but am trying desperately to change things.

[kaiwin]

Nice reply Penguin lover. I'll follow your advice.

[ada]

What a pertinent question! And so very relevant. I am a journalist by profession and work at that about 40 hours a week. I also have two small children, one large and a partner.

In between that I play the piano and run. I play the piano because it's an obsession. I have to run otherwise I wouldn't move enough, what with typing and playing. I am constantly torn and tired and frustrated. I play the piano in the early hours of the morning or late at night, which means I often don't get enough sleep.

I constantly feel like I'm racing against time in half hour increments.  I'd like to devote more time to the piano but not at the cost of the other stuff I do. So I've learned to live with frustration. I'm hanging in there for now, though. I figure things have got to slow down some time.

[thalbergmad]

I am so glad i am not a concert pianist. I put in the time that i want to put in. No more and no less.

I am therefore always satisified.

If i have a specific goal in mind, i am capable of 20 hours a week, but i am also capable of 0 hours per week.

Thal

[bella musica]

Am I satisfied with the time I put in?  Ha!  Never! 

I am capable of doing between 0 and 35 hours of practice per week, but probably average around 10 right now, which I know is not enough to get me to where I want to be.

So I think I will go back upstairs and resume working on my concerto.

[ako]

I am seriously studying voice and piano and even between the two I am having a hard time feeling fully satisfied with either. Sometimes it came down to, whichever one has an audition or recital coming (or a lesson) then I'll put more time into it. I do love music and have actually quit my full time job in exchange for a much less-paying part time job in pursuit of my dreams of becoming a professional singer. I am also teaching a few lessons to young children to supplement my income. The thing is, even though I make a lot less now, I am quite happy (except for the occasion reminder that I cannot afford a lot of things). For me, it's more than being satisfied with the amount of time I put in, but also the monetary sacrifices I am making for the sake of music. In the end, you just have to do what you have to do, be it music, spending time with your family, working 60 hours a week to stay afloat...

[pianistimo]

these are all really good replies because they are personal answers and not some answer directed by a teacher who may not fully understand your life situation or personal goals.  that said, i do find my teacher an inspiration.   he does not seem to limit himself to situations.  i do that with other areas of my life - as with keeping up the house and garden outside - but sometimes i don't put my life dreams on the same par as  paying the bills, taking care of children (taking them places- lately to swim), making a little money wherever i can, and taking care of day to day laundry, dishes, cleaning.  i feel a bit like ada with a full time job and practicing when it's late at night or not at all because of tiredness.

i thought this summer would be different - but each of the kids has their own demands.  just coming on piano forum is a challenge.  i love my kids, though, and would not trade them for a piano career.  i know they will soon be teenagers (all of them) and when they get to the late teenage stage - i'm going to be practicing more, God willing.  penguin-lover and i have a lot in common because we delayed our dreams.  it's ok - it's just sometimes harder to maintain the dream.  i think taking a few piano lessons is a good idea because it makes you feel like you haven't lost anything.  more like riding a bicycle.  you get back on and if you practice enough - you don't lose anything but memory.

now memory is an interesting subject.  i was reading that by age 30, most people start losing some of those tree-branch-like neural connections that are so important for associations in the brain.  that is why we wait five minutes to recall a name (going thru the alphabet).  i used to just think 'oh, this is a fact of life.'  but, did you know that there is really nothing but 'sneakers' that is first solution.  to put them on and get an hour of aerobic exercise (doing anything aerobic) to get your 'brain back.'  it can even help you reconnect (albeit probably different connections) those neural networks.

the latest reader's digest suggested a site on the internet for doing increasingly difficult brain functions and practicing speed.  not sure i want to try it on information other than music.  i try to be really focused and only work with music stuff - but, i know other people go for the 'whole' brain and practice chess or do math or crossword puzzles.  i don't have time at this point to be so diversified.  i am satisfied with my brain functions somewhat because last night i figured out (before 20 loads of laundry) that my son had reconnected the hot/cold water hoses to the wrong outlets.  i put my hand under the water in the washer and sure enough the cold cycle produced hot water.  little things like this are a constant brain teaser.  and, of course, the typical stuff you get from your credit card companies.  i'm doing math, i guess, on that.  figuring how they can manage to cause a small amount due to change to a larger amount.  writing letters.  remembering social security numbers.  etc. etc.  just the fact that penguinlover and i get up in the morning is proof that we are persistent.

i want to be a concert pianist and am attempting to put more time in as my smallest is going into kindergarten this fall.  just wondering how i will divide the time.  maybe 1 hour teaching and two practicing each day.  but, then it takes 10 minutes before and after to meet my daughter at the bus.  my second child used to get very angry when she'd come home and see me practicing and ask why i didn't meet her at the bus stop like all the other parents.  you see - it's very distracting to start practicing - because you lose track of time.  and probably some time is better spent making a child feel loved.  she was in fourth and fifth grade -a nd i though 'oh, she's old enough to walk home alone 0being that it's only 1/4 mile or less.'  but, she didn't like the aloneness.  now i see and am attempting to reform.  she walks with two other people now, though, so it's proably the kindergartner that will be needing the walk home.

[ted]

I think you've hit the nail on the head there, Pianistimo. We must keep our bodies and brains alive and active as we age. The exact nature of the stimuli doesn't matter. Thes days, if there is a computer in the house there is no reason to let the brain deteriorate. Thousands of sites exist with as difficult intellectual matter on them as one could wish for. Theses on practically any complicated subject are freely downloadable. Cheap and free compilers are available for those who fancy trying their hand at programming. Mentally, the world is our oyster these days without leaving the house if we care to exploit it; but so few seem to do it.

The idleness and contemplation I referred to are often in fact highly active states with me; you won't find me slumped in front of the television. Mowing the lawn with a handmower is idle contemplation to me. Aerobic exercise, as you point out, is absolutely essential, for me at any rate. I think memory has to be exercised like any other faculty.  Mine is still pretty good but I'm not taking chances with it.

I have the positive example of my father, who taught himself to programme at eighty and wrote much interesting software. He also played competitive tennis at eighty-five; these things despite having chronic illness. On the other hand, I am also driven by the sad spectacle of many of my contemporaries, especially the men, who seem to do little except raise a glass to the mouth, expand the waistline and await the first heart attack. I suppose if they're happy good luck to them, but I can't live like that.

[pianistimo]

good for you, ted.  me either.

you made me laugh about your highly active state, too.  i would say - for me - it depends on the day.  i think it sort of does run in families too (to have overactive grandparents make you think you can do everything they did).  my grandmother was extremely active.  i often think of her as you do your grandfather.  she never complained.  i like the fact that she wasn't a whiner.  and as you said - never got fat.  she was quite attractive even on her deathbed - excepting the large bump on the head that she got from having parkinsons and falling down a couple times at the end. 

i want to die attractive, too. 

[ada]

Interesting comments on keeping your mind active to stave off the slow slide into .... whatever mush it is your brain becomes ....

I would think that all you need to exercise your mind is a piano. Figuring out a Bach piece for example must give your brain a much better workout than a hundred crosswords. But it's not the brain Í'm worried about cos I use mine all the time as part of my job (although this may not always be apparent  ) .

It's more the body. I'd like to do more yoga and swimming and weights but its physically impossible given time restraints. That's why I try and run half an hour a day to offset all the time spent at at a keyboard - and that's both types. Plus running gives me a big endorphin hit that keeps me going.

I quit full time wage slavery two years ago and now work inhouse three days and freelance the rest of the time. The idea was try and free up the two days but I work on commission and as soon as one deadline's met there's another one looming.

I don't want to be a concert pianist, not that it wouldn't be a great living, but I know that's way out of my league. All I want is to be able to play the music I love beautifully and with ease. Or even half beautifully. That's enough for me. 

[kriskicksass]

Short Answer: No

Long answer: I'm a student, and that means, whether it be good or bad, that I'm supposed to be a machine. I'm not; in fact, I'm the complete opposite. I have to work hard on every piece I play, no matter what practice techniques I may use. Nothing works for me except for drilling, drilling, drilling until it's in my fingers. I'm not a huge practicer, but I get in about 2-5 hours a day, which I think is quite a bit for socially and athletically active high school student. Actually, I think that the problem isn't that I'm not happy with the time I put in (I am.) but that my teacher isn't happy. Luckily he's going on his yearly vacation soon, so he won't be breathing down my neck, and I'll be able to work in peace! 

[m1469]

I appreciate all of the comments thus far, and it is interesting to read people's individually unique thoughts on this subject.

I have been thinking about this topic and have been careful to be observing myself as I go through each day.  For me, there is something about the sheer time factor that is involved with my time put toward my pianistic study.  I need LOTS of it.  And I put everything piano-related into one basket ... be it teaching or various other things I study for the sake of better understanding my pianistic endeavors.  I want to understand theory better because I want to better apply it to my teaching and personal pianistic endeavors.  I want to understand art, mathematics, physics, history, communications, and EVERYTHING better for the same reasons.  That stuff requires time.  I just find that although I get burnt out and discouraged at times, and I even experience times of doubt and maybe fear, I am constantly brought back to this desire to just learn and learn about being a better pianist and musician (though I am a person first).   I just am so hungry for it.

I simply do not wish for nor allow for my days to be filled with anything else (though for me there is a spiritual substance behind it all, otherwise I would't care about piano either).


m1469

[rc]

heheh, I love your winding train-of-thought posts Pianistimo.  They're a pleasure.

A way I look at spending time is input/output.  You're either taking things in or giving them out.  TV, internet, books and recorded music...  All input into your soul.  So you take care what you let past the gates, time spent watching reality TV is obviously a big waste, or worse, shaping your perception of the world.

Too much input can atrophy your ability for output, your creativity.  Try to spend a week without turning on the TV, recorded music or books...  Without any input, your mind starts creating output, and it's amazing!  I found myself writing up essays, drawing little comics, going out and starting adventures and imagining the most interesting music (I didn't even have an instrument to play).  The imagination just took off, I could visualize and inner-hear to such detail, it would start flowing without any conscious effort.

But it's true, most are content to spend their time distracting themselves from any kind of action...

[m1469]

heheh, I love your winding train-of-thought posts Pianistimo.  They're a pleasure.

A way I look at spending time is input/output.  You're either taking things in or giving them out.  TV, internet, books and recorded music...  All input into your soul.  So you take care what you let past the gates, time spent watching reality TV is obviously a big waste, or worse, shaping your perception of the world.

Too much input can atrophy your ability for output, your creativity.  Try to spend a week without turning on the TV, recorded music or books...  Without any input, your mind starts creating output, and it's amazing!  I found myself writing up essays, drawing little comics, going out and starting adventures and imagining the most interesting music (I didn't even have an instrument to play).  The imagination just took off, I could visualize and inner-hear to such detail, it would start flowing without any conscious effort.

But it's true, most are content to spend their time distracting themselves from any kind of action...

This is a very interesting response.  Thanks for posting in and for the reminders you have given me here.


m1469

[ivoryplayer_amf]

I am not satisfied at all.  I will get into the practice room and start and just get so aggravated that I cant play like chopin or bach so I just start playing around.  Its frustrating.  I guess my own emotions get the best of me.  But whats odd is that there are some times (Late at night) that I usually get all emotional and sad and go to play and it just sounds beautiful and couldnt be any better if I tried.  Its just great.  But usually during the day in the middle, it sucks.