No longer using a teacher?

[discturtle]

Hello,

I've been playing piano for about 12 years and reached level 10 of the California Certificate of Merit program this year. I'm about to start college 5000 miles away from my rigid teacher, and I'm curious about learning pieces without her.

I went the last two months without a lesson from my teacher. I taught myself Brahm's Rhapsody in g minor, Wedding Day at Troldhaugen and started Chopin's Etude Op 25 no 12. As I have an audition for my university's chamber society, I scheduled another lesson with my teacher for her advice on the pieces that I'm playing. As usual, she gave no praise, (yet no condemnation either). Just a long hour of "do this like this," usually in reference to dynamics. Not what I expected given my long hours of practice.

So to the point! How do I get to the point where I can perfect a piece without a teacher? I find that when I'm playing, I'm so caught up in getting the rhythm and notes right that I can't really listen to how I'm playing. Recording and listening back helps - is that the best way? Is this knowledge simply years of experience?

Thanks guys!
Zach

[tds]

my current teachers are myself and a handycam. they both are extremely helpful.

[pianistimo]

find a teacher that also performs.  i mean, your teacher may perform - but i mean one that performs a lot and has a good sound that you like.  if you are searching for a place to take piano performance - think about west chester uni.  the reason is - they have excellent teachers.  all the piano teachers are superb.  and, they have a new music building with all new steinways.

it's a hole in the wall kind of little university - but they also offer a wide variety of music classes and pedagogy.  they even have lots of workshops in the summer and various trips internationally.  the music library - though a bit disorganized (might be moved, by now  and have more space) is a thought-out disorganization and you can usually find things fairly quickly.  and, a lot of the music is already fingered - so you have a head start by copying the fingering onto your own music.  there are thousands of records and i think they were starting to copy them to disc.  samuel barber's house is right around the corner from the campus. 

i realize there are many places one can go to college.  if you are looking at dorm quality - maybe that would be the only reason to think twice.  i mean it rains a lot in the fall and the mold and mildew is bad in those old dorms - but they are repainted and despite the elevators not working that well and creaking alot - there are many good things about the campus.  the food isn't bad either.   (the reason i know about the dorms is that my baby when she was younger was babysat by a student at the dorm for the hour of my lesson). 

[discturtle]

Thanks for the advice. I'll be attending MIT, which has a great music program, I was just curious how you guys perfect pieces w/o a teacher.

Thanks again,
Zach

[forevere2]

Well...

I've learned Chopin's Scherzo no.2, Ballade no.1, and a few of the etudes on my own, without a teacher's guidance at ALL.

Basically cut up the piece into distinct parts and just play it till you can without thinking. Also, it helps if you get a video camera or a recorder to hear yourself play. Sometimes I find it helpful to have someone who knows [doesn't have to be a teacher] some music and hear their commentary.

Also, listen to many different recordings (over and over and over again...) of the song by different people. But don't listen to their recordings until after you have played the song "good enough" but not yet perfect, cause this might just make you play like the Recording!

I've also heard that 95% of your piano technique is developed on your spare time. So if you do want it perfect, its totally up to your motivation and dedication. The teacher is just a guide, helpful but not necessary.

[pianistimo]

wow.  MIT.  what is your main area of study?  practicing in your spare time is a likely happening - but as he said - make friends with some music students and at least get some feedback.  it's hard to just go and go and not get any sort of feedback.  you could even take lessons from a student who is a music major.  that would be my advice.  even twice a month is better than nothing. 

[amanfang]

When you feel that you can competently learn and perform repertoire, then you don't need a teacher.  That said, there will always be something to learn from teachers.  Someone else can give you a different perspective on your music.  When another person has different musical ideas, musical maturity, and other experiences, there will be something to gain from them.  But on the other hand, you don't have to have a teacher to learn new repertoire.  I guess it depends on what you're going to do with music.  If  you're just learning new music for your own enjoyment or to play for family friends, don't use a teacher.  Or just get occasional coaching sessions for your own growth.  If you were planning to make a career out of it - remember that people with a DMA will still play for others and receive comments and criticisms and other ideas. 

[arensky]

Thanks for the advice. I'll be attending MIT, which has a great music program, I was just curious how you guys perfect pieces w/o a teacher.

Thanks again,
Zach

Indeed they do. Being in Cambridge you have all the musical resources of the Boston/Cambridge area at your disposal. Don't know if you want a teacher anymore, but if you do, here's some places to start.

Eleanor Perrone used to teach at MIT but now she's at The Longy School of Music, just off Harvard Square. She is a superb pianist and probably a very good teacher. I went to BU with her, we were both in Nagy's studio. Longy is an interesting place, they largely focus on children and amateurs but the standard is very high, and the teachers are first rate. They have an extensive chamber music program and many oppurtunities to perform. You should check it out, you might enjoy going over there to get a break from MIT. Don't know much about MIT music right now, but it's always had an excellent music department, as good as any other and better than most. Any way, here are some links...

https://www.eleanorperrone.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longy_School_of_Music

I don't think this guy teaches but he's someone you might want to meet...

https://pianosociety.com/new/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=74

[pianistimo]

hmm.  toys of tommorrow?  counter intelligence?  very creative thinker.  wonder what kind of piano techniques he advocates? a fernschmecker, too!  that's exactly the dean of music at wcu.  he travels all over the world for any odd reason at all.

[discturtle]

Wow, thanks for all the advice! My major (ultimately more - e.g. PhD) is biotech of some sort... but I'd like to minor in music as well. I like the idea of lessons from a music major, pianistimo, and I'll also look into lessons from Eleanor Perrone arensky. Even if I don't take lessons full time, it sounds like it's a good idea to have a second set of ears give advice occasionally.

Thanks much - Zach

[Bob]

Train yourself to be able to focus on those other things.

You already have some information.  At a certain level of difficulty, you focus more on notes and rhythms. 

You probably already have a good idea of what you're not focusing on or topics that your teacher keeps bringing up.

I find that listening to good recordings of pros helps.  Then listening to myself.  I also have to train my ears or listening ability to be able to hear certain things.  That can take time to develop.  You just need to be able to hear on a high level then your playing.  And be able to play those techniques.  Then be able to sight-read while using them.