Opus Comicbookibalisticum

[ryguillian]

[klavierkonzerte]

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

[jre58591]

hah, id read that comic. it would probably be about 250 pages long and take 4.5 hours to read probably.

[Nightscape]

ryguillian, you're funny....

I would love to read this comic book.

[pies]

Hopefully the comic would not be as creepy as the pictures on that photobucket account. 

[jre58591]

teh drawings were pretty dam.n good but those headshots were indeed creepy.

[Nightscape]

Uh yeah... this is just a little creepy.

[ryguillian]

That picture that you've posted above (Nightscape) is of Ian Curtis, the late lead singer of Joy Division. Pretty interesting musician.

--Ryan

[Nightscape]

Was the picture taken posthumously?

[ryguillian]

Was the picture taken posthumously?

No, here's the original:

[invictious]

Yea, if the book was written by Sorabji, it'd just be random ink spills, disjointed random figures, a few words and letters for 250 pages.

[gymnopedist]

Yea, if the book was written by Sorabji, it'd just be random ink spills, disjointed random figures, a few words and letters for 250 pages.

You are so funny! I just love the way you combine your misconceptions and lack of knowledge about a fantastic piece into a general assumption about Sorabjis work, and then apply it to this joke about a comic-book, supposedly written by the composer! You are a true comedic genius!

[avetma]

Yea, if the book was written by Sorabji, it'd just be random ink spills, disjointed random figures, a few words and letters for 250 pages.

But if you get into polyphonic structure of that comic book, you will see that is truly amazing and very well-structured.

[dnephi]

But if you get into polyphonic structure of that comic book, you will see that is truly amazing and very well-structured.

But why listen to oddsounding polyphony when you have many good Bach Fugues?

[jre58591]

But why listen to oddsounding polyphony when you have many good Bach Fugues?

it may be oddsounding to you, but if you were able to comprehend it, you would notice that it is not oddsounding and you would forget about "good" bach fugues. this piece is a bach fugue to the nth power. lets just forget the debate about whether sorabji sucks or not. the nay sayers will always lose. we have a sorabji expert on our side. case closed.

[pies]

But why listen to oddsounding polyphony when you have many good Bach Fugues?

"Hey, let's get into an endless argument about our musical tastes!"

[prometheus]

But why listen to oddsounding polyphony when you have many good Bach Fugues?

Because Sorabji is not Bach? I mean, you could just as well say: "Why listen to plain Bach fugues when you can listen to odd Sorabji ones?"

Or any other fugue composer.

Also, I don't think there are any people that enjoy Sorabji fugues but that don't like Bach fugues as well. So then the question is "Why not limit yourself just to Bach?" which is obviously a silly question.

[dnephi]

Then can you please explain how to appreciate Sorabji?  I haven't managed to develop a liking if it yet.

Best wishes.

[prometheus]

Well, have you had any succes explaining someone that did not like Bach to appreciate Bach?

If you are really interested in liking Sorabji, or any other composer, which you do not like yet then you have to learn how to be able to like something. Now this is a real skill that you need to learn. With music it is about connecting, understanding, finding, that what you can like and appreciate.

I cannot answer these questions for you. I do not know what you like in music. Also, you may not be ready yet for Sorabji. For example, if you don't lilke Bach or Scriabin then I think you are not ready for Sorabji.

So if you are ready for Sorabji right now then you need to pick the correct piece to start with. For example, Sorabji wrote impressionstic pieces like Gulistan. He wrote a piece like Sonata No.1 which I find hard to describe. And then you also have Toccata No.1, a piece in the style of OC that builds on Busoni's fantasia contrappuntistica. Other people prefer shorter pieces.

And then you have to be patient. You both need to try to find and hear that what you want to hear and just ignore your own preference and try to find the music's own merit.

So questions like these, regardless of the composer, are important but hard to answer.

But don't you think this sounds nice: https://80.56.36.253:200/Sorabji%20Preludio-corale.mp3 ?

[notturno]

So... it's Doc OC vs. Doc Bach?


Doctor Octopus "Doc Oc"

[pies]

But don't you think this sounds nice: https://212.187.69.100:200/Sorabji%20Preludio-corale.mp3 ?

RANDOM NOTES GARBAGE INK SPILLED ON SHEETS NO STRUCTURE NOT MUSIC
 

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

That was marvelous. Very beautiful. It greatly reminds me of Bach material and is polyphonic. What piece is it?

[jre58591]

That was marvelous. Very beautiful. It greatly reminds me of Bach material and is polyphonic. What piece is it?

i believe it is from the preludio-chorale from opus clavicembalisticum. i have to check over my score to be sure.

EDIT: nope, the toccata no. 1. no wonder why i couldnt find it. it also sounded a lot cleaner than odgon's or madge's recording of OC.

[prometheus]

it's a segment from the Preludio Chorale from Toccata No.1 recorded by Powell.


I would reccommend this if you are interested in 'Bach'-like Sorabji. The piece is very much like the OC, which also exists out of baroque forms. But the recording is much much much better than Odgen's OC recording. Also, it is a lot shorter, but still one hour and 15 minutes long.

[jre58591]

for virtuoso-type sorabji pieces that arent as bach-ish, look into teh solo concerto, OC (obviously), and sonata no.1. those are my favorites. for nocturne-like pieces, look into gulistan (the rose garden), le jardin parfumé, djami, and the pastiche on the hindu merchant's song from rimsky-korsakov's "sadko" (hamelin recorded this). once you really explore sorabji, you will begin to see the beauty and awesome craftsmanship in his music.

[debussy symbolism]

for virtuoso-type sorabji pieces that arent as bach-ish, look into teh solo concerto, OC (obviously), and sonata no.1. those are my favorites. for nocturne-like pieces, look into gulistan (the rose garden), le jardin parfumé, djami, and the pastiche on the hindu merchant's song from rimsky-korsakov's "sadko" (hamelin recorded this). once you really explore sorabji, you will begin to see the beauty and awesome craftsmanship in his music.

I do really enjoy Sorabji's music, even though I haven't listened to that much of his work. I was particularly impressed by his 100 Transcendental Etudes by Ullen, whom I have listened to on the internet. I think number 26 was the one that particularly struck me on the first hear. Nucturne like, very evocative and very beautiful. What is this nonesense about "random" notes running about. Sorabji's notes are anything but random. Would the carefully crafted passacaglia from the 100 Transcendental etudes be possible with random notes. It's a variation based on every other etude I think, a sort of reminiscence.

[prometheus]

I think the way people react to Sorabji tells something about the nature of people. It learns you that you must be careful not to fall into the same 'trap' on a different subject.


People can be very reactionary and irrational. People can be very biased and have very strong opinions on something without really knowing what they are talking about. So one must be very careful. Because, we are all human and it is part of human nature.

[debussy symbolism]

You are right Prometheus, people are sometimes prim and not openminded. Part of it is taste. Different people have a predilection to different kinds of music. I do believe that one of the reasons people pass harsh judgement on Classical music in general, is because of not enough knowledge about the art. The case of Sorabji is very similar, in that not enough is known about the music and people have an instant aversion to it. Take Bach for example. A fugue, or any polyphonous work, has the intertwining of voices, counterpoint, etc, etc. On the first listen it is very hard to grasp the beauty of it, but once scrutinized, the most beautiful reveals itself. That is the way I feel about Bach. He is one of my most favourite composers and I can see a direct relationship between Bach's polyphony(or polyphony in general) and the section of the piece by Sorabji. I bet that if the work became undestood, it wouldn't be passed off as "random" notes.

[debussy symbolism]

Concerning irrational reactions, I don't think that the reaction is as much irrational as it is rational. People are afraid of the unknown, hence showing strong dislike or even fear to a certain extent, hense the imboglio concerning Sorabji's music on this forum.

[prometheus]

Well, the point was that people generally think of themselves and other as rational creatures. But humans are very very irrational. Even I may seem like a rational person, actually I am quite rational compared to most. But I can say that most of the most impotant decisions in life I have taking irrationally.


As for taste. I really believe that taste is a form of unpreventable close mindedness or preconception. Therefore it is viewed as innocent. This eventhough it is true that some people generally react better to some kinds of music compared to others. For example, feral childs, that do not speak any language and have never heard any kind of music before prefer some kinds of music above others.

Of course this is still pretty innocent. Unless you are either a professional musician or a very serious amateur musician.

And do understand that I amtalking about about genre, not about quality. Clearly there is music of lesser quality and one should be free to ignore it. But when you are a dedicated musician you can't really to give up on some music just because you feel it is outside of your taste.

I think that listening to music is still for a large part culturally. For example listen to this:
https://212.187.69.100:200/music/ustad%20sabri%20khan%20-%2002%20-%20darbari%20-%20jhala.mp3

How does this sound to the average western ear brought up on classical and pop music? How would you describe this?
And this stuff goes on for a whole CD, a whole concert. But this is how some of the stereotype/mainstream indian classical music sounds like.

The instrument is the sarangi. Very interesting instrument.

[JCarey]

Toccata No. 1, Jonathan Powell

https://www.megaupload.com/?d=IG4Q0L79

The complete recording.

[letters]

sorabji would own you all if he was a top trumps card

[debussy symbolism]

Well, the point was that people generally think of themselves and other as rational creatures. But humans are very very irrational. Even I may seem like a rational person, actually I am quite rational compared to most. But I can say that most of the most impotant decisions in life I have taking irrationally.


As for taste. I really believe that taste is a form of unpreventable close mindedness or preconception. Therefore it is viewed as innocent. This eventhough it is true that some people generally react better to some kinds of music compared to others. For example, feral childs, that do not speak any language and have never heard any kind of music before prefer some kinds of music above others.

Of course this is still pretty innocent. Unless you are either a professional musician or a very serious amateur musician.

And do understand that I amtalking about about genre, not about quality. Clearly there is music of lesser quality and one should be free to ignore it. But when you are a dedicated musician you can't really to give up on some music just because you feel it is outside of your taste.

I think that listening to music is still for a large part culturally. For example listen to this:
https://212.187.69.100:200/music/ustad%20sabri%20khan%20-%2002%20-%20darbari%20-%20jhala.mp3

How does this sound to the average western ear brought up on classical and pop music? How would you describe this?
And this stuff goes on for a whole CD, a whole concert. But this is how some of the stereotype/mainstream indian classical music sounds like.

The instrument is the sarangi. Very interesting instrument.

I do enjoy indian classical music. It is very inventive in rhythm and melodic invention, and is based upon improvisation on a rage, which would be like a sort of scale. This music is very reflective and deep, even though it lacks harmony. Do you by any chance have an excerpt of Javanese gamelan music by any chance>

[ryguillian]

lulz i forgot about this.

BUMP

[ryguillian]

Other versions were made as well...

[ahinton]

This bumping of the thread just goes to show, does it not, that what appeared to make some children amused a couple of years ago still does so today; what that says for the maturity process for the said children is presumably open to debate, if anyone has nothing better to do than debate it.

Best,

Alistair

[jpowell]

Toccata No. 1, Jonathan Powell

https://www.megaupload.com/?d=IG4Q0L79

The complete recording.

Thanks a lot. The more people do this, the less likely I am to record Sorabji ever again.

[ryguillian]

This bumping of the thread just goes to show, does it not, that what appeared to make some children amused a couple of years ago still does so today; what that says for the maturity process for the said children is presumably open to debate, if anyone has nothing better to do than debate it.

Best,

Alistair

And your response just goes to show that what pissed off some crotchety Scotchman two years ago still pisses him off today... Arrested development looks himself in the face?

B.,

Ry................................

[ahinton]

And your response just goes to show that what pissed off some crotchety Scotchman two years ago still pisses him off today... Arrested development looks himself in the face?

I wouldn't know, in either case. In the first instance, you omit to identify either the particular compatriot of mine to whom you refer or the relevance to him of crotchets (quarter-notes to you); however, I can confirm that it doesn't at all "piss off" this particular Scotsman, since it's of insufficient significance to be capable of doing so, hence my remark and the deliberately generalised, rather than personalised, way in which I phrased it, both of which still stand. As to the second instance, I remain unaware of anyone having been arrested for posting this stuff, but if you want to examine the kind of development to which you refer here, I can do no better than recommend that you use the nearest mirror.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Thanks a lot. The more people do this, the less likely I am to record Sorabji ever again.

I am very sorry that people do this kind of thing without appropriate authorisation, especially when all people have to do in order to be able to listen to any of your Sorabji recordings as and when they wish to do so is GO AND BUY THEM.

That said, may I make a heartfelt plea on behalf of all those who care about Sorabji's music that, notwithstanding this sort of activity, you allow nothing ever to get in the way of any plans you may have now or at any time in the future to record more of the composer's work!

[retrouvailles]

At least that link to the Sorabji recording is down, so it cannot be downloaded anymore. I personally really enjoy your work, Mr. Powell, and will continue to buy your CDs, in the hope of you producing more in the future. At least one positive thing can be gained out of this, which is that you certainly do have an audience for your work.

[ryguillian]

At least that link to the Sorabji recording is down, so it cannot be downloaded anymore. I personally really enjoy your work, Mr. Powell, and will continue to buy your CDs, in the hope of you producing more in the future. At least one positive thing can be gained out of this, which is that you certainly do have an audience for your work.

That said...

[redacted URL]

Best,

Ry.

[indutrial]

At least that link to the Sorabji recording is down, so it cannot be downloaded anymore. I personally really enjoy your work, Mr. Powell, and will continue to buy your CDs, in the hope of you producing more in the future. At least one positive thing can be gained out of this, which is that you certainly do have an audience for your work.

Yeah, don't let the bottom-feeding mass-sharing internet insects influence your work as a recording artist. I've ordered all of your Sorabji discs from Altarus (some I got secondhand on Amazon  ) in the past and I certainly look forward to whatever may come next ( ahem.... definitely consider working out Sonata 5 or Sequencia someday!!!!). File-sharing is the inevitable downside to the wide and unprecedented publicity that can be gained via the world-wide-web. I've definitely downloaded a few things in the past, but I stick to out-of-print things that nobody has bothered putting on Itunes or Emusic.

The suggested attitude that comes part and parcel with jerkoff high school/college students who feel entitled to sharing anything and everything that exists in the recorded world makes me tremble for how coming musical generations will be able to relate with recordings. Without pontificating too much, it just reeks of that good old sense of entitlement and bratty self-obsession that is sucking the spirit out music as a whole. I recently read some high-school jazz prick's essay about how recorded music should be completely free, with a whole bunch of pedantic philosophical points and asinine bullshit to boot. He should have just been honest and said something along the lines of, "Music should be free because I don't have any money, because I don't work enough and I maxxed my credit card out gassing up the SUV my parents gave me. I used my Christmas money to buy a Nintendo WII and a new Ipod for all my illegal downloads. I'm eating out at Friday's too much, buying too much alcohol, and buying too many pieces of computer hardware, so I can't afford to buy a copy of 8-cd John Coltrane box set on Amazon. I don't own any Coltrane CDs, but some bittorrent user told me it was available so I have to have it!!! ALL OF IT! Once I have it, I can share it with others and get props and smileys on the forum I use!!! That wll B awsum!!! Oh yeah, and that's why music should be free."

I'm glad that I live near one of the only good used CD stores left in the U.S. because nothing feels better then picking up a new disc and carefulling listening to it on the headphones back at the house. Certainly a lot more fun than buying terabyte after terabyte and ripping DVD after DVD to make sure that nothing goes wrong with your complete Bach, complete Mozart, and 9,000 gigs of complete piano music playlists. Bunch of f**king squirrels. Some of the people on Gamingforce and the blogosphere really need to get outside some more, like real squirrels.

[ryguillian]

Yeah, don't let the bottom-feeding mass-sharing internet insects influence your work as a recording artist. I've ordered all of your Sorabji discs from Altarus (some I got secondhand on Amazon  ) in the past and I certainly look forward to whatever may come next ( ahem.... definitely consider working out Sonata 5 or Sequencia someday!!!!). File-sharing is the inevitable downside to the wide and unprecedented publicity that can be gained via the world-wide-web. I've definitely downloaded a few things in the past, but I stick to out-of-print things that nobody has bothered putting on Itunes or Emusic.

The suggested attitude that comes part and parcel with jerkoff high school/college students who feel entitled to sharing anything and everything that exists in the recorded world makes me tremble for how coming musical generations will be able to relate with recordings. Without pontificating too much, it just reeks of that good old sense of entitlement and bratty self-obsession that is sucking the spirit out music as a whole. I recently read some high-school jazz prick's essay about how recorded music should be completely free, with a whole bunch of pedantic philosophical points and asinine bullshit to boot. He should have just been honest and said something along the lines of, "Music should be free because I don't have any money, because I don't work enough and I maxxed my credit card out gassing up the SUV my parents gave me. I used my Christmas money to buy a Nintendo WII and a new Ipod for all my illegal downloads. I'm eating out at Friday's too much, buying too much alcohol, and buying too many pieces of computer hardware, so I can't afford to buy a copy of 8-cd John Coltrane box set on Amazon. I don't own any Coltrane CDs, but some bittorrent user told me it was available so I have to have it!!! ALL OF IT! Once I have it, I can share it with others and get props and smileys on the forum I use!!! That wll B awsum!!! Oh yeah, and that's why music should be free."

I'm glad that I live near one of the only good used CD stores left in the U.S. because nothing feels better then picking up a new disc and carefulling listening to it on the headphones back at the house. Certainly a lot more fun than buying terabyte after terabyte and ripping DVD after DVD to make sure that nothing goes wrong with your complete Bach, complete Mozart, and 9,000 gigs of complete piano music playlists. Bunch of f**king squirrels. Some of the people on Gamingforce and the blogosphere really need to get outside some more, like real squirrels.

What a patronizing shitpost.

[pies]

a

[thalbergmad]

Thanks a lot. The more people do this, the less likely I am to record Sorabji ever again.

I for one hope that is not the case.

I must admit though to being mystified why you have never really spoken out against the not inconsiderable amount of your recordings that have been posted on Gamingforce. You are a member there and have even made requests yourself, but i do not recall you requesting your work to be removed. If this has been done privately to the moderators, it has obviously not worked.

If my work was being pirated like this, i would be on the warpath.

Thal

[ahinton]

I for one hope that is not the case.

I must admit though to being mystified why you have never really spoken out against the not inconsiderable amount of your recordings that have been posted on Gamingforce. You are a member there and have even made requests yourself, but i do not recall you requesting your work to be removed. If this has been done privately to the moderators, it has obviously not worked.

If my work was being pirated like this, i would be on the warpath.

Thal, I sympathise entirely with what you are saying here but, as you have seen above (and probably knew anyway), there are people out there whose respect for the fantastic devotion and immense hard work of certain performing artists barely exists because they (those people, not the artists) seem to think that their self-appointed divine right to have whatever they want free just when, why and how they want it overrides any other consideration. What they do not realise is that, if composers and performers didn't do what they do irrespective of their pety desires, they would have no material to which they'd feel they have this right.

I hold less than no brief for piracy of this kind, distressingly commonplace though it is; it seems obvious that the vast amounts of resources of pianistic, emotional and intellectual energies given by the performers and those of money, time, technical expertise and the rest input by record companies count for very little as long as those who wish to obtain pirated copies of whatever happens to take their fancy remains up for grabs - an astonishingly insulting and at the same time hopelessly impractical and destructive attitude.

Just think about this; composers might do so and think "why compose?" and performers "why perform?" if their respective efforts are to be treated in this manner.

A word for Jonathan Powell; ignore all these pathetic little babies and get back to the keyboard where you belong and at which you must continue to do you work!

DID YOU HEAR ME??!!

Best,

Alistair

[ryguillian]

[T]here are people out there whose respect for the fantastic devotion and immense hard work of certain performing artists barely exists because they (those people, not the artists) seem to think that their self-appointed divine right to have whatever they want free just when, why and how they want it overrides any other consideration.

I never have respect for fantastic devotion; in fact, it scares me to death.

I've given far too much money to the "casusa de la Sorabji" so I'm trying to set the score (ha!) straight like I promised I would when I got banned from the Sorabji Forum (the forum, ironically that I originally started). I will, and have stated, do everything in my power to end performances, sales, etc. of Sorabji propaganda.

Best,

RYGUILLIAN

[ahinton]

I never have respect for fantastic devotion; in fact, it scares me to death.

Really? That seems to sit rather oddly with what you write below, to which my reponse is attached.

I've given far too much money to the "casusa de la Sorabji"

Leaving aside that I have less than no idea what a "casusa" may be, I reseve my view that I am unaare that you have given "far too much money" to it, whatever it may be but I nevertheless invite you to detail to what you may have given money and how much you have given, so that we can all assess the validity or othewise of whatever contention it may be that you are trying to make.

so I'm trying to set the score (ha!) straight like I promised I would when I got banned from the Sorabji Forum (the forum, ironically that I originally started).

The forum that you started is not the one from which you got yourself banned. I applauded your enterprise and efforts in starting the forum that you did (which was before the present one) and, despite your subsequent behaviour, I still do; you were banned from the subsequenbt forum because of your wholly unacceptable behaviour which I regret far more than I would have done had you not tried to start a forum previously.

I will, and have stated, do everything in my power to end performances, sales, etc. of Sorabji propaganda.

Leaving aside the fact that you have no such power, I would have to ask (as I'm sure plenty of others would likewise do) why anyone who had once gone to the trouble that you did of starting a Sorabji forum would later want to do what you now say you do; your personal credibility is plummeting rapidly, but only through your own statements rather than as a consequence of anything that anyone might write in response thereto. No one here has anything to do with Sorabji "propaganda"; some of us here and elsewhere have nevertheless devoted immense amounts of time and energy to the Sorabji cause and will continue to do so regardless of what you say and write, so my advice to you is to espouse that cause as once you did or leave it alone and shut up.

Best,

Alistair

[ryguillian]

Really? That seems to sit rather oddly with what you write below, to which my reponse is attached.
Leaving aside that I have less than no idea what a "casusa" may be, I reseve my view that I am unaare that you have given "far too much money" to it, whatever it may be but I nevertheless invite you to detail to what you may have given money and how much you have given, so that we can all assess the validity or othewise of whatever contention it may be that you are trying to make.
The forum that you started is not the one from which you got yourself banned. I applauded your enterprise and efforts in starting the forum that you did (which was before the present one) and, despite your subsequent behaviour, I still do; you were banned from the subsequenbt forum because of your wholly unacceptable behaviour which I regret far more than I would have done had you not tried to start a forum previously.
Leaving aside the fact that you have no such power, I would have to ask (as I'm sure plenty of others would likewise do) why anyone who had once gone to the trouble that you did of starting a Sorabji forum would later want to do what you now say you do; your personal credibility is plummeting rapidly, but only through your own statements rather than as a consequence of anything that anyone might write in response thereto. No one here has anything to do with Sorabji "propaganda"; some of us here and elsewhere have nevertheless devoted immense amounts of time and energy to the Sorabji cause and will continue to do so regardless of what you say and write, so my advice to you is to espouse that cause as once you did or leave it alone and shut up.

Best,

Alistair

Uh, I've bought scores (through you, so you should remember...) and also many, many CDs... not to mention the sweat I went through trying to get Powell to perform in Chicago... he totally ignore my e-mails wherein I asked him if he'd be interested in performing in the states... I had already talked to various people at the University of Chicago about having him perform, etc. since that was also the sight of another Sorabji performance (O. c. by Madge in, I believe 1988).

The power I have? Well, Powell just stated above that the more people post his stuff online the less likely it'll be that he'll record Sorabji's works... so... that's obviously a weakness right there.

YAY!

Ryan.