Suite Bergamasque - Any useful tips on playing it?

[pianohenry]

Apart from certain problems at certain bits, I found that its not difficult, but some bits I find difficult at full speed. The bits I find hard are...

In the prelude (1st movement):

Semiquaver 3rds - the bit with near the beginning with B flat octaves in the left hand base note, and then both hands play 3rds quavers/semiquavers. I find that difficult to play at speed, i get it completely out of time... anyone else have problems with it? Debussy didnt recommend any fingering throughout the whole of the suite, do you think it might be that? what fingering does everyone else use?

The demi-semiquavers that that come in what i think is the second section, but they occur throughout the piece fairly often. (Its the bit where its suggested that the left hand crosses over the right) I find the speed difficult to keep track off, just because its so fast and i cant really hold the tempo in my head... Should i play them sort of... as if they were slowly rolled chords?

Menuet:

roughly second phrase - uses a similar sort of motif as in the prelude, with the semiquaver 3rds and stuff - (beginning with bar where left hand has chord of F(major tenth) , then Gminor, C, F)

right at the beginning, where you have the (apparently optional) trills in the right hand, between B and C - i mean the trill is fine, its just landing on the chord (with F and A above) at the right time, its a bit of a stretch. Well, usually i try to do trills/mordent type ornaments and things like that with fingers 2 and 3, because theyre my strongest, more agile fingers and i can trill best on them. Im probably doing it wrong, because to play B, F and A with 2, 4 and 5 is sort of awkward. Should i do the ornament with thumb and second finger so that the chord can be 1, 4 and 5? (or 1, 3 and 5)

I havent got much further than the 1st or 2nd page, i only just started that one 

Clair de Lune:

actually that one isnt as hard i dont think... technically-wise its not difficult to play i dont think, its just difficult to play well and expressively... i cant think of any particular part i had a lot of trouble on.

Passepied:

hmmmm i dont think ill attempt playing that one at this point in time!  busy working on dipabrsm to get distracted with it.

thanks for help/comments and suggestions, especially for the prelude and maybe clair delune, those are the 2 that im most likely to learn fully and as possible performance pieces.

Henry

[fliszt]

you have completely explained where you make mistakes and the parts where you have problems...so you should know what to practice

Good luck with the piece.

[dnephi]

And remember!  The square of the sums of the square roots of the two sides of a iscosceles triangle is equal to the length of the third side.

According to teh scarecrow in da w1z 0f 0z.  [/1137][/sdc]

[pianistimo]

yes.  each of these pieces is not just something that is casual conversation.  i mean, chopin in his etudes said to just use whatever fingers make it sound flowing and fast.  and, some examination boards let you play whatever fingers you want for scales as long as it sounds clear.  but, i personally think chopin and debussy had specific techniques in mind and until you discover them - you are in the dismal position of being slowed down here and there.  ask a prof.  go to a music library and look to see if the music is fingered.

now, i looked vicariously for you under marguerite long.  i have had a facination about her since she seems to know a few things about debussy direct from the source.  but, to no avail.  i mean, i found very little.  did someone do a cover up on her? 

[dnephi]

yes.  each of these pieces is not just something that is casual conversation.  i mean, chopinI think you mean Rachmaninoff in his etudes de tableaux said to just use whatever fingers make it sound flowing and fast.  and, some examination boards let you play whatever fingers you want for scales as long as it sounds clear.  but, i personally think chopin and debussy had specific techniques in mind and until you discover them - you are in the dismal position of being slowed down here and there.  ask a prof.  go to a music library and look to see if the music is fingered.

now, i looked vicariously for you under marguerite long.  i have had a facination about her since she seems to know a few things about debussy direct from the source.  but, to no avail.  i mean, i found very little.  did someone do a cover up on her? 

[pianistimo]

oops.  my mistake.  was thinking etudes of something or other.  more likely op. 25 #8 in thirds.

in any case...here is a web site for debussy that has some quotes and stuff that you might find interestingly off topic - but related.  www.djupdal.org/karstein/debussy/pianist/p05.shtml

[pianistimo]

.  nevermind about the isles.

[pianistimo]

say, i found something else -

a site that was saying that debussy purposely didn't write in fingering because of the complexities of each person's hand - and that he thought that copying someone else's fingering might not be the best idea for one's own hand size (or something to that effect).

i found this site when googling 'suite bergamasque homepage.'  third site down.

on this site there is a 1932 tutorial 'how to teach and play debussy' by maurice dumesnil

https://homepage.mac.com/stevepur/debussy.html

[pianowolfi]

I've played the whole Suite five years ago.  i have forgotten a lot of it since I didn't play it anymore after that. Had to look up certain sections. The most fun to play for me were Clair de Lune and Passepied, first because of it's silent romantic mood and last because of it's flow and groovy 3 against 4 rhythms. The Prelude i did'nt find very hard to play. The most tricky for me is the Menuet exactly due to the problems you mentioned.

Prelude thirds fingering: r.h.  5  4 5  4  3 4  3   3    l.h 1 2 1 2 1 2 5   2
                                       1  2 1  2  1 2  1   1        5 4 3 4 5 4 1   4

In the sections with the 32nd notes as well as in the third- sections of the minuet it may help to use supporting movements with the arm, relaxed playing and relieving the fingers that have to play fast while you put the weight of arm and hand to the fingers with the long notes, using them as a stand or something. Claire de Lune requires a very good legato, you will often need to change fingers on the pressed-down keys to get a clear sound and voicing without blurring everything with the pedal. Passepied, which is really fun to play once you've learned it, requires a good leggiero-non legato technique in the left hand of the first part,  subtle dynamic nuances and, as mentioned above, that certain groove. Have fun!

Greetings

Pianowolfi

[pianowolfi]

And remember!  The square of the sums of the square roots of the two sides of a iscosceles triangle is equal to the length of the third side.

According to teh scarecrow in da w1z 0f 0z.  [/1137][/sdc]

Huh??? Gulp

[dnephi]

Huh??? Gulp

It's the most horrible mess-up of Pythagorean theorem.  That is obviously false if you know what the original proof is :p.  That's what's funny.  He uses all the big words but doesn't know what they mean.  Sorry for spamming.  I am.

[pianowolfi]

It's the most horrible mess-up of Pythagorean theorem.  That is obviously false if you know what the original proof is :p.  That's what's funny.  He uses all the big words but doesn't know what they mean.  Sorry for spamming.  I am.

hihi, funny!

[pianohenry]

thanks for all your help people.

i looked at that steves debussy page and its pretty good, and i enjoyed reading the quotes about him 

for the fingering suggestions, ill try them out - i wouldnt have thought of doing it 5-1, 4-2 etc. but I can see that working very well good advice man!

pythagorean theorem works only with right angled triangles i think...

A² + B² = C² where C is the hypotenuse (longest side of the triangle) and A and B are the two shorter lengths in the triangle.

lol talk about going off topic but anyway ty for everyones help.