Beta Blockers - are they worth it?

[henrah]

I suffer greatly from nerves whilst playing to people. In fact, I suffer when there's anyone in the room - I miss notes, I stutter/hesitate and lose my place, and worst of all when it happens I cannot reconsile it and I have to start again from a few bars previous to where I messed up. A lot of "sorry's" get uttered too.

I remember reading about Beta Blockers on this forum in the past and I have recently been thinking a lot about them as in April next year - as part of my A2 Music course - I have to play 3 pieces in front of an examiner-type person and I have to have a 3-minute viva voce with the examiner about the pieces (interpretation, colour, texture - you know the sorts). I'm worrying that my nervousness will get in the way of me being able perform my best, and thus affect my A2 mark. I'd much prefer it if the examiner could sneakily come to my house and listen in to me playing them - if I don't know anyone's there and I feel alone, I play fine!

I'm thinking that I should try my best at conquering my nerves by doing lot's of performances up to that point (performances being to friends and family, not public paying occassions - they would be even worse as people have paid to hear me!); but I'm doubting my ability to do that.

Basically: need there be precautions with Beta Blockers, and can they be easily prescribed in a short period of time i.e. the day/week before just incase I feel that my nerves aren't up for being shaken? And any other advice on them and the general nervousness area is welcomed and greatly appreciated.

Thanks for anything,
Henrah

[gonzalo]

I suffer greatly from nerves whilst playing to people. In fact, I suffer when there's anyone in the room - I miss notes, I stutter/hesitate and lose my place, and worst of all when it happens I cannot reconsile it and I have to start again from a few bars previous to where I messed up. A lot of "sorry's" get uttered too.

I remember reading about Beta Blockers on this forum in the past and I have recently been thinking a lot about them as in April next year - as part of my A2 Music course - I have to play 3 pieces in front of an examiner-type person and I have to have a 3-minute viva voce with the examiner about the pieces (interpretation, colour, texture - you know the sorts). I'm worrying that my nervousness will get in the way of me being able perform my best, and thus affect my A2 mark. I'd much prefer it if the examiner could sneakily come to my house and listen in to me playing them - if I don't know anyone's there and I feel alone, I play fine!

I'm thinking that I should try my best at conquering my nerves by doing lot's of performances up to that point (performances being to friends and family, not public paying occassions - they would be even worse as people have paid to hear me!); but I'm doubting my ability to do that.

Basically: need there be precautions with Beta Blockers, and can they be easily prescribed in a short period of time i.e. the day/week before just incase I feel that my nerves aren't up for being shaken? And any other advice on them and the general nervousness area is welcomed and greatly appreciated.

Thanks for anything,
Henrah

Here:

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4208.msg39083.html#msg39083
(perform a lot in situations that are not stressful and branch out from there - Bernhard- the entire thread is quite helpful and there are many helpful posts from a number of different people)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4558.msg42811.html#msg42811
(interesting ways of dealing with performance pressure)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,479.msg2471.html#msg2471
(beta blockers?  Every performer deals with nerves)

Take care,
Gonzalo

[dnephi]

Here:

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4208.msg39083.html#msg39083
(perform a lot in situations that are not stressful and branch out from there - Bernhard- the entire thread is quite helpful and there are many helpful posts from a number of different people)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4558.msg42811.html#msg42811
(interesting ways of dealing with performance pressure)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,479.msg2471.html#msg2471
(beta blockers?  Every performer deals with nerves)

Take care,
Gonzalo

Do we have another Bernhard?
 

[gonzalo]

Do we have another Bernhard?
 

No, I just happen to have a lot of Bernhard's links.

Take care,
Gonzalo

[gruffalo]

I believe that the only way to get rid of nerves is the natural way, and not taking any meds. I dont know if they do or dont do any good, but I never think of taking meds to get rid of things like nerves. I have posted in a lot of threads about assisting nerves and there have been loads, so you can do a search for those. As for the question in hand, my answer is NO.

Gruff

[pizno]

I believe that the only way to cope with nerves is to take BETA BLOCKERS!  It will help, you will be happier, your performance will not be perfect but you will feel calmer and enjoy yourself more.  Just try it, not a big deal.  You can deal with the psychological stuff too, but I have found only happier performances with BB.

piz

[cloches_de_geneve]

You can look at it this way: Countless people with high blood pressure have to take beta blockers every day up to doses of 80 or more milligrams over years and years of their lives!

The doses usually used by performers are in the 10 to 40 range.

So, whenever you take a beta blocker, just think that your pressure is going up and that it is good to take the medication for preventive reasons.

[ada]

yeah, but that does make you a pianistic drug cheat? 

If athletes can't take drugs to assist their performance, should performers?

I wonder what a GP would say if you rocked up and asked for a prescription? Or is there a black market in beta blockers?

[pianowolfi]

I never take beta blockers before a performance, only homeopathics. Once a fellow pianist told me, she tried beta blockers and her performance went bad because she was like stoned. She had the feeling of being in slow-motion, no more feeling of the right timing. So I'm warned.

[henrah]

Seems like there are two sides of the pill

My music teacher has assured me that there will be many intimate performances leading up to the examination. And thanks to Gonzalo for the links, Shasta mentioned quite a few methods which I'll try out. I shall keep beta blockers only as a last resort, as I fear losing emotional contact with the music I'm playing from reading some of the personal experiences.

Thanks again guys, much obliged.
Henrah

[kaiwin]

Here is what I did to conquer to nerves when I was younger. Play just for fun in front of people, make others feel that you aren't taking it seriously, like its really fun to play. If you make a few mistakes thats fine, continue to play like this until you can play it perfected with this kind of attitude then go on into serious mode.

Hope this helps@
Kaiwin 

[pizno]

Or,  try taking them one day when you don't have to perform, take them again for some low key performance, and see if you lose emotional contact.  In fact, I feel more contact with what I'm playing, because I am not so nervous I can't see the music straight.  It is not a terribly heavy duty drug.  And yes, I asked my GP and he said no problem, gave me enough for a long long time.  I don't want to sound like a drug pusher, and more power to anyone who can perform without them.  I just find it makes me a little more in control.  When I make a mistake, I don't freak out.

Piz

[cloches_de_geneve]

Much of the problem of this discussion lies in the term "drug". Many people become near hysterical when they see this expression, not to speak of trying it out. But there are many misunderstandings here.

First, compared to doping medications ingested by athletes, most BB are nothing. Indeed, taking a BB is probably less harmful than taking an aspirin. So, if taking aspirin is to "be on drugs", then, yes a BB will also put you "on drugs".

Second, the effects of BB should not be overestimated. If you are a great pianist you will remain one, if you are a lousy pianist do not believe that a BB will change anything. Essentially, a BB just limits some peripheral effects of anxiety (trembling, sweating) but it does not affect the anxiety itself. So, if you are very talented it might help a bit in the sense that you may feel a bit more relaxed, possibly limiting some wrong notes and allowing for greater expression.

Does this give you an unfair advantage over others who do not take it? Well... Is it fair to take homeopathics to gain an advantage over others who do not take them? Is it fair to do extensive breathing excerices go gain an advantage over others do not know how to use breathing for relaxation?

I know that many people become nervous when thinking about taking medication, but in reality much of the food we ingest is probably more harmful physically, and psychologically, than a BB.

[pianowelsh]

I dont know how you practice but that can have an effect on how you play in public and especially if you are used to getting exceptionally nervous. I have been told and have found from my own experience that if you do LOTS and lots of cirular practice and only like one bar at a time kind of passages over and over and at speed then you are actually setting yourself up to stutter. So yo may find it helpfull to do a lot of SLOW but continuous practice and playing as legato and as relaxed in your arm as possible as it will compensate for the tension which gets built in with short high speed repetitions. You do definately need to look at reasons why you get nervous when people listen in  because im sure its not your playing from previous posts. It could be a self confidence issue or feeling that peoples expectations of yo exceed where you are at..thats a big one for a lot of advanced pianists. From what you say it could be that there are issues witht the way you memorise and that it isnt providing you with enough information for your fingers and hence you have to keep skipping notes - as soon as this starts in a performance it tends to be a downward spiral so go back and do some analysis spot check yourself - ask your self where is my LH going now and why - for what purpose etc. It is also rumoured that we loose upto 45% of our digital technique in stress situations and so it probably feels sometimes like your fingers are opperating on a different plane from your brain and they just arent doing what you want them to do. To be sure of the notes and to be able to rely on your fingers. play through your pieces VERY slowly - uber legato and piano ( I say piano so you can control the minimal acceptible level of noise as it may be you are not totally missing notes but that they are not sounding because of lack of sufficient contact etc) this will give you a stronger physical connection with the piece and help you to relax a bit more - go for complete beauty of sound in piano and keep the fingers glued to the tops of the keys so that they are trained at all times to be above the note they need to play.
I DO NOT reccommend beta blockers. When I was at Conservatoire there were a couple of folks who took beta blockers  (one in combo with medication and alcohol) they can be quite dangerous because they really slow your heart down unnaturally and it is natural for there to be adrenalin in your system when you perform and so your body is fighting against itself. It isnt good when you have finished the performance either you have to becarefull because although the adrenaline dramatically tails off the effects of the beta blockers are still in your system. One person in my year passed out  shortly after a rectial.  To be honest when they played it didnt quite seem natural either because you expect there to be an air of tension in performace - just controlled tension.  If you really still cant cope under the stress im told that banannas are a good natural kind of beta blocker - just dont over do them. Oh and stay off the coffee for a few days before the performances (need a few days for body to adjust).

[henrah]

Heh, I've never liked coffee - it's way too bitter for my tastes. But I'm loving tea right now! Maybe stay off that...

Thanks for the banana suggestion. My brother eats a lot of banana's so I'll scrounge some off him every once in a while.

Thanks again!
Henrah

[drjames]

I have responded to a similar thread before.  I am a physician on beta blockers for a heart condition who plays the piano and still gets nervous if I have to play in front of people (which I almost never do).  Being a pediatrician, what would I do if someone asked about beta blockers to help with their nervousness (so far noone has)?  I know they are safe and have used them extensively for migraine prevention.  I don't think they are the way to go for nervousness as I feel you should overcome this problem by simulating performance conditions as much as possible.  However, I would probably let someone, teenager say, give it a try short term ifthey had something coming up real soon.  They would still need to do a trial run to check for side effects such as symptoms of low blood pressure.  But only they could say whether it helps or not.  James

[Mozartian]

I'm worrying that my nervousness will get in the way of me being able perform my best, and thus affect my A2 mark. 

Heeeeyy Henrah,

I hear ya on the nerves. I've always had problems with them myself, probably worse than you, lol. But  I think you've pinpointed the problem in that sentence of yours. Everyone is always a little nervous before a performance, but not everyone is worrying about being nervous- I think that is your problem! I know it is/was mine.

Just don't allow yourself to think about being nervous. Even if you've got more papillons in your stomach than in Schumann's op. 2, just DON'T. Make yourself focus on the music, think about what you're going to do, not how you're going to do it (on stage, in front of a teacher/jury, whatever).

lol I just performed for a new teacher this last week, I really thought I was going to die before I got there, physically I was so tense and nervous; but mentally I tried to keep myself really positive, and I remembered to take deep breaths , and as soon as I got there I talked to her as freely and as relaxed as I possibly could. So when I actually sat down to the piano, I was fine.

Dunno how well this works when you're facing a performance on stage with a huge audience, but eh, I'll let you know after my next performance (in December, I think).

Oh and yeah DO NOT take any medications or drink anything that's a stimulant if you're nervous. So- no caffeine, and no allergy/cold medications like sudafed. TRUST me on this one.

Anyway- hopefully this will help!

[prometheus]

I think beta blockers are part of my fathers medicine cocktail for his heart.

[amanfang]

I take beta blockers for performances.  However I have a medical/heart condition, so I take it conjunction with other medication.  I have always struggled with nerves.  You know, everyone struggles though at different levels.  For some, it becomes almost debilitating.  An otherwise perfectly fine performer becomes literally paralyzed with nerves, and cannot perform up to their potential. 
That said, let me tell you my personal thoughts.  For me, the pros outweigh the cons.  I take 20 mg of Propranolol about an hour or hour and a half before I play.  The drug lasts 4-6 hours, but peaks around an hour to hour and a half after you take it.  It slows the adrenaline, keeps me from shaking, etc.  Also, side effects are not a problem when it used for occasional use.  However, if the problem is mostly mental, it will do nothing for that.  I feel that I can concentrate better when I don't have the distraction of all the physical symptoms.  Some say it will take away from the emotional energy of the piece.  I would agree to some extent.  There's not the adrenaline rush that sometimes give the piece that "edge" but on the other hand, I also think that there's still enough excitement about performing. 
So that's my two cents.