One piece that stretches your limits to the max?

[comme_le_vent]

nooooo not alkan haters!

           

if you actually listened to the music more than once, youd realise that beyond all the shimmering textures and awesome piano writing, there is a composer of startling melodic harmonic and rhythmic genius.

it is debatable which is a greater piece of music between the rach 3 and alkan concerto for solo piano, i prefer the alkan - there isnt a sustained white heat in the rach 3, in the alkan there are multiple long sections of intense white heat.

[comme_le_vent]

oh, and remember that alkan was a complete recluse, and NEVER showed off at the piano.

[eViLben]

None mentionned Medtner which sonatas are really f***ing hard. what about proko's & scriabin's sonatas too ?


those are jewels ... and stretches a pianist's limits to the max

[rachlisztchopin]

comme_le_vent....believe me i am not an Alkan hater! lol im an Alkan lover more than anything...i love his concerto (which is the only piece iv heard) and i plan on recording it someday...i was just stating that rachmaninov is historically more important then Alkan but i love Alkans music...infact i just ordered Alkans piano music book off doverpublications.com....cant wait to get it! also im not going to say whose piano music is the hardest cuz i truly dont know....i have been only playing piano for a year and i am playing advanced music but not virtuosic music yet

[rachlisztchopin]

also...clementi is a 2nd rank composer...he is not a first rank because he is only very important to a pianist...same goes for rachmaninov...i had thought they would have been first rank composers though  ; chopin is a first rank composer because he changed the whole world of music and many people like scriabin followed him

[comme_le_vent]

alkan obviously isnt a higher ranked composer in your liszt because of his status as an 'unknown'.
his music is far more innovative than rach's and just as innovative as chopin or liszt.
who else wrote music of such proto-20th century dissonance and aggresiveness?
who else used tone clusters in their music before alkan?
who else wrote solo piano music on such a collossal scale?
who else could write musical works of such classical structural rigour as his symphony for solo piano and sonatine?
who else wrote music as vast and romantically structured as his concerto for solo piano or his grande sonata?
alkan was an extremely important composer and an influence on just about every composer that was in contact with his music.
his music stirs up emotions in me that i feel with no other composer, and anyone that denies he is a unique genius of great stature, and undoubtedly one of the great romantic composers - annoys me greatly.

[eViLben]

i know Alkan very well, and let me tell you guys that his works are crap in comparison with rach's. Alkan sounds like rubinstein : where is emotion ?

[eViLben]

i know Alkan very well, and let me tell you guys that his works are crap in comparison with rach's. Alkan sounds like rubinstein : where is emotion ? i don't like it, even if Hamelin gave nice recordings of it ...
and btw i don't find him innovative at all.
Rachmaninov created his own sound, full of post romantic depth, a style that inspired a lot of composers, Prokofiev at first.
comme_le_vent said "It is one awesome kick-ass piece of music , with more depth than the mariners trench. and its not even his best piece!
suck on that Rach3 - wear your dumb-boy cap and sit in the corner!
the MASTER's word is FINAL!!!!!!!!! "

i must agree with you, its not his best piece, because he has no best piece. =)

but all this is about tast, and so our discussion is quite useless

[Gambit]

i know Alkan very well, and let me tell you guys that his works are crap in comparison with rach's.  

I agree

[comme_le_vent]

where is the emotion?
i feel MORE emotion in most alkan than in most rach.
im not denying rach's greatness, im just saying that alkan was a composer of equal greatness.
and im being objective here , unlike you 2.
saying that alkan's works are crap is an insult to yourself, its fair enough that you dont like them, but just say that you dont like them, instead of needlessly putting down a composer who needs all the recognition he can get.

[scriabinsmyman]

first off, don't diss any music!!! (esp rach3, i'm a big fan)...personally, scriabin fantasy in b minor is my challenge piece b/c i have teeny hands.  i think choosing a piece that tests your limits varies from pianist to pianist

[Rob47]

alkan's concerto for  solo piano and rach 3 are both epic pieces.  Just Alkan's not as mainstream.

Rach 3 is like Eminem's "Hi My Name Is.." (not in a bad way), whereas Alkan's concerto is like some other kid who has a catchy rap song that no one hears cuz he doesn't have a record deal.

But it's ok.....Rach 2 is superior to them both.  

[stevie]

there are 'bad' ones by sorabji xannis etc...,

hahaha, controversial

[mike_lang]

hey man!
im a highly respected member of this community ill have you know.........

im a legend in my own country

I second Motrax.  You really have a problem discussing music without making it personal.

[tompilk]

i would say the alkan solo concerto - i had a look at it today, after listening to the mp3 for months and months... and gave up. It really is difficult. I had a go at the minuet in the solo symphony instead - much easier and im actually getting somewhere with it...
Tom

[raskolnikov]

yeah, and YOU'RE a silly tutu face with NO FRIENDS!  Na na na na NA NA, i've got ice cream and you don't!  na na na na NA NA!

ROFL!!  I was thinking the same.

[houseofblackleaves]

Meh...

No one has actually answered in "one" peice in particular, however I don't expect anyone to.

For me it would be learning the Rachmaninoff Etude's Tableaux, only learned two over a course of three months.... or either of his sonate`s.  Scriabin's sonate`s require incredible devotion to the peice, and a whole lot of staring.... at the score....


I highly doubt that anyone here will attempt the Opus Clavicetibalisticium (or however you spell it....)  It's the so called "most difficult" peice ever, but I think the hardest part would be sitting there, learning an awful 120 some page four hour long peice that isn't nearly as good as Sorabiji's other peices.

[tompilk]

i just want to support the Alkan lovers... I actually have turned to Alkan after ages listnening to Rachmaninov - Rachmaninov gets predictable after listening to his style and there are no moments of absolute fire that ocurr numerous times in Alkan... Alkan has some parts that are just pure genious and seriously makes me want to do nothing but learn the piano so i can play it. Rach 3 is also fantastic, but not got that edge that Alkan did.
I absolutely love Rach and am one of his greatest admirers - I would say that his input to music would be equal to that of Alkans. I would agree that a lot of alkan's (much more than rachmaninoff's) is awful music, well not awful but not worth playing particularly, but his Op. 33, 35, 39, 76 and some earlier little sets of etudes are incredible... much more worthy than their status would appear to be...
Tom
Oh and if you are playing Alkan, especially solo concerto, after 1 year then I seriously think that you would be the best pianist in the world. I don't even think that Hamelin, forgive me if I am wrong if you see this, started to learn Alkan within 2 years of learning piano.
Sorry but i don't believe you, unless of course you are a famous concert pianist - are you? Im sure you'd have been in teh papers and news...

[musicsdarkangel]

I don't consider it the hardest piece or anything (although it is not easy),

but La Campanella was a great excersize/piece in one..... leaps, ornaments, chordal runs (in Busoni edition), octaves, trills, chromatic runs, finger independance, tremelos (Busoni), and combining a lot of the above.

[bench warmer]

You guys arguing over Rach3 & Alkan Solo_concerto should try Godowski's "Studies on the Rach3-Alkan Etudes".  In the first part the RH plays the Entire Rach3 while the LH weaves the Etudes comprising the Alkan Concerto. In the second part it's done again but with LH & RH reversed.  Then there's the Re-capitulation, My God the Re-cap is awesome: the two hands are at the extremities of the piano playing inverted melodies of the the two pieces while the performer rolls his head on the middle section of the piano keys to produce the Chorale of Beethoven's 9th. Now That streches the limits of artistry, endurace & the human spirit.      Lighten-up

[pagim]

Yeah Alkans works are very hard but sounds mechanical IMO

I cant believe no one of you have mentioned Beethovens "Hammerklavier" or Chopins sonata num 3, Liszts sonata in B minor or Mendelssohns Varations Serius.

Forget about Alkan

i can play that HammerKlaviar one, and the others, too, Op.109, 110 and 111, and every 32sonates by beethoven.

[sevencircles]

I highly doubt that anyone here will attempt the Opus Clavicetibalisticium (or however you spell it....)  It's the so called "most difficult" peice ever

Jonathan Powell plays it and he is a member of this forum.

[pagim]

most difficout piece doesn't mean no one can play it.

[sevencircles]

You guys arguing over Rach3 & Alkan Solo_concerto should try Godowski's "Studies on the Rach3-Alkan Etudes".  In the first part the RH plays the Entire Rach3 while the LH weaves the Etudes comprising the Alkan Concerto. In the second part it's done again but with LH & RH reversed.  Then there's the Re-capitulation, My God the Re-cap is awesome: the two hands are at the extremities of the piano playing inverted melodies of the the two pieces while the performer rolls his head on the middle section of the piano keys to produce the Chorale of Beethoven's 9th. Now That streches the limits of artistry, endurace & the human spirit.      Lighten-up

I assume that Godowsky himself is the only one that dared to play it in public.

He never recorded as far as I know but I wondered what it sounded like.

[elevateme]

scarbo