Rachmaninoff Prelude Op32 No 12 in G# minor

[zheer]

   Me playing Rach prelude, comments are welcome.

[kelly_kelly]

The playing is great, but the buzz is intensely aggravating. In some places the right- hand accompaniment seems too loud, but I can't comment on specifics as I don't know the piece well.

[phil13]

RHYTHMIC STRUCTURE.

I was following the score in my head (I play this too) and you were adding several extra beats here and there. It really threw me off.

At 1:12-1:28 take a leaf from Horowitz's book and let the LH melody lead.

At the end, don't let the pedal drop out, it's still important.

Is this a finished work, or something you're still working on, zheer?

Phil

[pianowolfi]

RHYTHMIC STRUCTURE.

I was following the score in my head (I play this too) and you were adding several extra beats here and there. It really threw me off.

At 1:12-1:28 take a leaf from Horowitz's book and let the LH melody lead.

At the end, don't let the pedal drop out, it's still important.

I agree with that. I'd like to add that all these beautiful rit...meno mosso, poco accelerando etc. should be executed very distinctly. But i hear that you have worked already very well on the right hand patterns and keep it going pretty well. For me it was always difficult to get that right hand even. I did a lot of slow practise on that.
 Good approach so far. I think you have progressed very much here compared to other recordings I've been listening from you. Keep it going!

[zheer]

Is this a finished work, or something you're still working on, zheer?

Phil

   Personaly i dont like to spend too long on one piece, so this prelude i worked on for about a week prior to recording, time is runing out reason why i work on a new piece evevry single day.
    Obviously what ever Horowitz does is always going to be very good, though the rcording that am really after is Rachmaninoff himself, tanx for de comments .

  Kelly-Kelly yes the RH part is ver difficult at first, will try to bring the volume down.

      pianowolfi you mentioned the meno mosso,poco acclereando, well to be honest am not too convinced by them,it just does'nt sound right when i try it, will need to listen to a record by Rach to see haw its done correctly.

   Thanks a lot guys for your intelligent comments.

[pianowolfi]

   Personaly i dont like to spend too long on one piece, so this prelude i worked on for about a week prior to recording, time is runing out reason why i work on a new piece evevry single day.
   

 I think things need time to mature, especially Rachmaninoff.

[phil13]

I think things need time to mature, especially Rachmaninoff.

2nded. I worked on this piece for 2 months before perfection in my eyes and my teacher's eyes was there.

Phil

[zheer]

RHYTHMIC STRUCTURE.

  You know when i recorded this i played it by memory, so once you mentioned the rythmic structure i had to read the notes again and yes bar 8 is a beat short,and so is bar 9 on the last page and some other bar. Aside from that this prelude is less difficult than his other preludes . Thanks for pointing it out.

[phil13]

Actually, for only playing it a week this is pretty good.

According to my score, you added beats in measures 3, 4, 6, 10, 11, 35, 36, 37, and 38, and missed a beat in measure 7 and the 4th to last measure from the end. The rhythmic structure to this piece is essential, because if it isn't consistent, then it sounds like you're making it up as you go along.

Phil

[zheer]

According to my score, you added beats in measures 3, 4, 6, 10, 11, 35, 36, 37, and 38, and missed a beat in measure 7 and the 4th to last measure from the end. Phil

   Aside from the ones i mentioned the rest is fine.

[teresa_b]

Hi zheer,

Wow, one week?  You play this very well for that length of time.  (So, why is time running out?)  It does sound as though you don't have the notes quite in your hands, and the RH flickering rhythm (which you do very well) sometimes gets away from you a little. 

I posted this piece somewhere on this board, and mine was a little too "careful," which as I got more comfortable with it, improved as I loosened it up.  I would say you have the opposite goal now--tighten it up a little and be sure to pay attention to the long melody lines, forward movement and continuity.  it will be wonderful!

Good work--You have a lot of talent to do this in one week.
Teresa

[zheer]

Hi zheer,

 (So, why is time running out?) 

  LOL, i strongly believe that one should cover as much repertoire as soo as possible,this way one can learn short pieces like a prelude to a reasonable standard with-in a week.
I will let you in to a little secret, sight read through as much music as possibe ,then come back to those pieces years later, that way the music is already in your memory.

[piano121]

I will let you in to a little secret, sight read through as much music as possibe ,then come back to those pieces years later, that way the music is already in your memory.

Aha! thatīt cool... been doing it!

BTW You play it nice, you are very talented!

[molto-marcato]

Hi,

very impressive progress for just about one week, but i have a few things to comment on. The very end of this prelude has to be played fading, like the music was carried away somehow. Not so much like the dying smorzando (which you didn't do of course) but like the perdendo he noted.
Next topic is dynamics. In my edition it has a cresc./decresc. in the introduction wihich is very beautiful, but you obviously overlooked it. I found a few more missing dynamics but don't want to list them all up, take the score and work it through. Also, Rachmaninoff was very precise with his notation, so when he writes meno mosso, rit., accel., and so on you should take special care about these passages.

So, after 1 week of more or less working on the basics, why not take one or two more weeks on perfecting the musical issues. This prelude is painfully beautiful and surely needs more attention. What is the point of having a huge repertoire that is played "more or less" well, when you can have less pieces that are really ready for performance.

Just my 2c, regards.

[zheer]

like the perdendo he noted.

  Aha, so thats what that word means thanks . Well thanks for your comments, i've been invited to play at a piano course and one of the pieces that am looking to play is this prelude, so i hope i will get some help with that from the teacher.
   Yes i know much work still needs to be done, so the comments that i've been getting on how to improve the prelude is exactly why i posted this piece by RAch. All the best.

[rachfan]

Hi Zheer,

Congratulations on accomplishing so much in so short a time!  Great!  You've definitely got this piece on the way now.  This is one of the Op. 32 Preludes that I have not yet played (though I did post five preludes from Op. 32 here), so I'm going to make only a few general comments. 

First, pay close attention to dynamics.  For example, I think you begin the piece too loud--it is marked p.   Try depressing the pedal before you begin the piece.  Lean backward a bit on the bench to make your arms float over the keyboard.   Then with a legato, quiet touch, make the opening sound as if it comes from nowhere, build the crescendo through measure 1, then the receding diminuendo through measure 2.  As it stands, your opening is fairly monochromatic when it comes to shading.  This is natural, because you've had to overcome technical obstacles and tend to concentrate on those. 

Also as someone else mentioned, when the LH is in the foreground, let it rule, and keep the RH suppressed.  So, for example, if Rachmaninoff calls for f, and the LH is in charge, keep the RH at mp--strictly in the background as accompaniment. 

The other suggestion I would make in general is to work for clarity at all times in the pedaling.  For instance, look at 23, or actually starting with the last figure in 22.  Notice that in the LH the dotted quarters form a chromatic scale which you must etch for the listener.  Along about the 6th beat, it starts to become muddy.  In the first three groups of 23, try taking each in a distinct separate pedal.  In the final group, because of the neighboring tones in the RH, clear the harmonics through a releasing half pedal.  Every piano and its pedal mechanism reacts differently, so you'll have to experiment to see what will deliver clarity.

At the top of page 3 in the first two measures there, you have the bass chords to be played in portato touch.  There again, the chords are sometimes neighboring tones.  For example, you have C# leading to D#, and later A# leading to G#.  The pedaling there sounds a bit murky at the moment.  I'm not at the piano now, but would try different "fixes".  First, I'd try half pedaling the first two octaves after the tie, taking the next two in one full pedal since they are harmonic, and then half pedaling the last two.  Next, I'd try separately pedaling each chord.  Finally, after the tied notes, I'd try no pedal at all there, and using essentially the same fingering for each chord for uniformity in articulating the portato effect.  I believe at least one of those approaches will give you the desired clarity of expression.  Again, because instruments differ in response, you have to experiment.  Finally, in matters of pedaling, your ear must at all times be the supreme court in matters of clarity.

Again, I think you've done a creditable and solid piece of work here, Zheer and are to be complimented.  You've also done a service to the composer.  Although No. 12 is more often played, too many people think that if you listen to the Op. 3 C#m and Op. 23, No. 5 in g, that you've heard "the Rachmaninoff preludes".  Getting all of them posted on this board will broaden people's listening horizons.  Thanks for contributing your very nice rendition!       

[zheer]

Hi Zheer,
    

  Thank you rachfan for taking the time on commenting on this prelude, i found your comments helpfull and positive.