Men

[mycrabface]

Does anyone know why most men are so fond of lying to women? Even though the two are close friends?

[Siberian Husky]

 

[leucippus]

Does anyone know why most men are so fond of lying to women? Even though the two are close friends?

That's easy.   This is just an illusion that women bring about themselves.   

For some reason, which I sincerely wish I knew the answer to, women seem to consistently fall for these kinds of jerks and are quite persistent about avoiding the decent men.

Actually I do have a theory as to why this is so.  The lying jerks seem to have no problem at all running around asking women out one right after the other.  They also have absolutely no problem at all telling women anything they think the woman wants to hear.   So women get hit on by these types of guys quite often.  There's always another jerk in line if the previous one failed so women have a seemingly endless supply of jerks to choose from.

These kinds of insincere men also have nothing to lose if they are rejected by a woman because they simply move onto the next one.  So since there having nothing to offer they have nothing to lose and they appear to be brimming over with confidence.

Sincere men are less bold.  They don't just run around hitting on every woman they see.  Instead they are very reserved and wait until they find a woman they are truly interested in.  Then they get nervous, partly because they have a lot offer the woman and therefore a lot to lose if they are rejected.   On top of that, they don't have a lot of experience asking women out because of their high selectivity, so they appear less confident and sometimes downright awkward thus greatly increasing their chances of rejection for a first date.  If  there is no first date things most certainly aren't going to improve on the second date that never materializes.

If you think I'm joking, I'm not.  I'm 57 years old and I've never been married.  You won't find a man who's more honest than I am, the best you could hope to do is find one who's just as honest.  Yet, I have always found it very difficult to attract the attention of women that I've been interested in.  They seemed to be much more absorbed with those more exciting liar who will just tell them anything no matter how far-fetched.

I can't compete with dishonest men.  It's as simple as that.  All I have to offer a woman is the truth, but that was never good enough.  Women don't seem to be interested in truth, they're much more interested in excitement, romance, and fun.  Men who lie seem to be brimming with excitement, romance, and fun.  So how can I compete with that?  I can't bring myself to act pretentiously to exude these thing artificially.  It takes time to get to know me.  But women aren't interested in taking that time.  They want to be impressed BEFORE the first date, not afterward.

So  it's just an illusion that most men lie.  What is really true is that women are more attracted to men who lie.  Not that women want the men to be lying, it's just that the liars appear more attractive and exciting.   After all, if a man is allow to lie and make up stories what's to stop him from appearing attractive?  And don't forget the confidence things.  Men who have nothing sincere to offer have nothing sincere to lose!   So they appear to be brimming over with confidence which women LOVE!

O.k.  Thanks for the opportunity to get that off my chest.  I have NEVER lied to a woman in my life.  Except maybe when I tell them that a dress doesn't make them look fat.  Although, in truth, it's not the dress that's making them look fat anyway. They just are fat.  So I'm not really a lying anyway.

[jpianoflorida]

ok ok.....don't generalize!     i could ask   "why do most women lie to men" due to several relationships I have had, but i would generalize cause I know it's just that I happened to pick the wrong women...just remember there is good and bad in everyone......
jay

[leahcim]

Does anyone know why most men are so fond of lying to women? Even though the two are close friends?

If "most men" is a population of 1 where you are, forget him and make your first million selling local tours

[pianistimo]

i think leucippus accurately described the situation.  either a man is a liar or he is not.  the liars, once proven a liar - have a lower social status.  therefore, afterwards they have to keep lying to maintain it.  whereas, a man who doesn't lie - keeps having a higher one and usually ends up with the better paying job because the employer trusts him.

now, about women and jerks.  honestly i think it is a hormone thing between 18-23.  around age 24 women start becoming smarter, imo.  and, actually women who do not marry early on (and men) probably get to know themselves and their men friends much better by having casual talk and finding out what the other person is really about.  this isn't a relationship based on sex alone.  although i could vouch for the importance of sex to tide you over when you are mad at your mate.  it's about the only thing that mends a relationship, imo.  if you stop being attracted - you may as well just throw in the towel.  who wants a celibate married life?  that is one huge reason that a man should not decieve a woman especially if he is married.  women can carry the burden of no sex for a month.  a man, barely three days.  of course, there are some women and men that cannot really hold to 'punishments' doled out and scrap them the next day.

here's how i see it.  if you want good sex.  a lot of sex.  and a lot of sincere love from a person.  don't lie to them (women).  actually, i should say 'the' woman.  realizing that only a few women like polygamy and would even consider the remote possibility of keeping a man who was cheating on her - or even outright marrying someone at the same time as her.  i don't even understand threesomes.  how can two women share a man?  it would be repulsive to me.  i'd want to start slapping the other one.  how could a man survive being in the middle?  women are very competitive with other women on the love field.

[bearzinthehood]

sometimes, men provoke women to fight with each other - just to sit back and watch.  this is very mean.

They usually do this because someone else they truly cared about hurt them.

Generally speaking though, the less you like a girl, the more she likes you, and vice versa.  It's just one of those things.  I suppose if you want to work on your pimping skills you need to practice treating girls like sh*t.

[leahcim]

Generally speaking though, the less you like a girl, the more she likes you

It's no wonder they need to carry Margaret Thatcher around in chair.

Lets hope she never gets loose.

[thalbergmad]

Generally speaking though, the less you like a girl, the more she likes you, and vice versa. 

So often, i have found that to be true.

I was really nice to one of my girlfriends. I used to take her out at least once a month and even took her to see Arsenal. Was she grateful, no.

My last girlfriend i did treat like rubbish. I was always buying her clothes that she was too fat to get into and even grassed her up to the social, but i could not get rid of her.

Stranger creatures women.

There is a saying in Englang. "Treat em mean, keep em keen"

Thal

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

I think leucippus has made a very valid point. Men who go out alot are generally "empty" enside, because they don't really care who they go out with, they are just glad they do. The women want excitement, the men offer it. Once that is over, the next man is on the line, etc. I will again use the Pocorina member as an example. She wanted attention here, she got it. She then got bored with it. Now she is probably either working on another forum or something else in which she is is to get a rush of excitement.

[pianistimo]

playing sick or dead has it's place.  usually when nothing else works.  take my family, for instance ... if i am alive and well i am supposed to cook dinner and do all these things.  but, if i am sick (and actually look sick) then, of course, someone has to go get dinner and bring it back. 

i've never truly played possum (totally dead).  i've thought about it. 

[ted]

I can see little point in pretending to be otherwise than how I am in my interactions with either men or women. Strategies either way are a complete waste of energy and thought. Granted, there are occasions in the workplace and in public when one should be very careful of expressing an honest opinion; this is true but still regrettable. Neither would I divulge masses of personal detail to strangers I had just met; that would be unwise. However, home for me is a transactional sanctuary where all cards are on the table at all times. After all the nonsense I encounter in the outside world, returning home to a constant atmosphere of strategy would be unbearable.

I cannot remember being other than a WYSIWYG (What you see is what you get) type of person; I couldn't be bothered trying to be otherwise. What on earth is the point of that ?

[mycrabface]

this is abit out of point, but has anyone seen the movie called Closer? there's a scene where jude law hits natalie portman in the face.. That's so MEAN!! what an a**!!!

[lostinidlewonder]

When people play games they do all sorts of stupid things. The problem with most men think the right person is someone who totally blows them away sexually, the problem with most women is that they think the right person is someone who can be a tower of emotional support. The thing is both aims are light years away from one another and both are looking for the wrong thing. It is a complicated world, but if we do not realise that A PERSON IS A PERSON, then we just set ourselves up to play a crazy game.

[mycrabface]

When people play games they do all sorts of stupid things. The problem with most men think the right person is someone who totally blows them away sexually, the problem with most women is that they think the right person is someone who can be a tower of emotional support. The thing is both aims are light years away from one another and both are looking for the wrong thing. It is a complicated world, but if we do not realise that A PERSON IS A PERSON, then we just set ourselves up to play a crazy game.

yeah i know people have flaws, but its just a man's habit to do these things...

[rc]

this is abit out of point, but has anyone seen the movie called Closer? there's a scene where jude law hits natalie portman in the face.. That's so MEAN!! what an a**!!!

How 'bout Raging Bull with Deniro?  Quite the wife-slapfest, and brother-beatorama!

Well I definitely grew up with some mind poison regarding women.  Not sure where it came from, probably TV and friends.  Well, the poison is filtering out through mistakes, gaining an inkling of understanding.

[pianowelsh]

Be fair to MEN they usually only lie about things which are personal to them and that embarress them.  I read in an article once that if you ask a man a direct question about something he finds to personal to discuss something like 7 in 10 men will instictively lie as the first response and may then retract the statement if they feel they can trust you at a later stage.

[rimv2]

Be fair to MEN they usually only lie about things which are personal to them and that embarress them.  I read in an article once that if you ask a man a direct question about something he finds to personal to discuss something like 7 in 10 men will instictively lie as the first response and may then retract the statement if they feel they can trust you at a later stage.

Ah read a study that said women have a smaller brain than men.






In all seriousness, there are different personality types. All sexes have them. The guy or girl who moves from one person to the next is just looking for attention - not because of insecurity but because that person just likes, no, needs attention. The one who believes they act out of insecurity is, usually, either mistaken or projecting. There are people of other personality types who do migrate to this type, but they might be less common. The guy who lives by himself in the woods is another personality type. He expects the world to know what he is thinking. The world dont. He holds the world to too high a standard and is inevitably disappointed. The pregnant dog in the corner office believes she knows it all. And she probably does. Unfortunately she usually ends up with the passive husbands, and very little friends. And we all know the fate of the passive individual. There are perhaps more types and combination types as well.

Why does the 1st type get the girl (or guy in some cases)?

Because the 1st type understands the fundamental law of human interaction:



GIVE ATTENTION, GET ATTENTION

Doesnt  usually work the other way around for guys (which really sux )

Also what individuals see as attention varies. So if you fall for one the jerks, it's officially your own fault. You only see attention in the way "the Jerk" can give it

[mycrabface]

 The one who believes they act out of insecurity is, usually, either mistaken or projecting.

Everyone projects an image of what the world wants to see, not just those who are insecure.

[rimv2]

Everyone projects an image of what the world wants to see, not just those who are insecure.

Re-read what ah typed

[pianistimo]

a man or woman who gives/gets attention may be bored.  perhaps the job needs a break now and then.  i'd say that people who give and get attention are mildly flirting but not serious.  just something to break up an otherwise monotonous day tearing apart pianos.  for moms like me, it might be three children to get to school and take hither and yon.  yesterday i drove here and there like a madwoman.  ymca, cvs, bookstore, grocery store...  byt the time i get home - my sitting time is near the computer with a little dinner.  most people here probably go to bed exhausted like me.  if they actually had the attention you think they are getting, rimv2 - they must be really young and hooking up with someone they tried to actually 'get.'  so far, everyone i know lives thousands of miles away.  what is the chance of anything like that happening.  and, don't be jealous because you just might meet someone and start blithering too.  then, you will remember the instant recognition signs of geekness.  the compatiblty factor when you start combining talk of music, pianos, poetry, art - with the unique features of an individual that make them express these things in a new way.  how many musicians on this forum are not in some way a bit lonely because of being unable to get others excited as they are about music?  who wants to talk about mozart on the street.  if i walked up to someone and casually started a conversation about mozart - they'd think i was nuts.  perhaps even if i talked about music in general and going to hear the pops concerts or the philadelphia orchestra.  all people talk about in my neighborhood is football.  that's what my hubby turns on sunday afternoon.  i think football is hard to watch.  it just looks painful.  it's like they're all saying 'look at me.  i can injure myself and come back.'  now, perhaps with piano this is true also.

[thalbergmad]

a man or woman who gives/gets attention may be bored.  perhaps the job needs a break now and then.  i'd say that people who give and get attention are mildly flirting but not serious.  just something to break up an otherwise monotonous day tearing apart pianos.  for moms like me, it might be three children to get to school and take hither and yon.  yesterday i drove here and there like a madwoman.  ymca, cvs, bookstore, grocery store...  byt the time i get home - my sitting time is near the computer with a little dinner.  most people here probably go to bed exhausted like me.  if they actually had the attention you think they are getting, rimv2 - they must be really young and hooking up with someone they tried to actually 'get.'  so far, everyone i know lives thousands of miles away.  what is the chance of anything like that happening.  and, don't be jealous because you just might meet someone and start blithering too.  then, you will remember the instant recognition signs of geekness.  the compatiblty factor when you start combining talk of music, pianos, poetry, art - with the unique features of an individual that make them express these things in a new way.  how many musicians on this forum are not in some way a bit lonely because of being unable to get others excited as they are about music?  who wants to talk about mozart on the street.  if i walked up to someone and casually started a conversation about mozart - they'd think i was nuts.  perhaps even if i talked about music in general and going to hear the pops concerts or the philadelphia orchestra.  all people talk about in my neighborhood is football.  that's what my hubby turns on sunday afternoon.  i think football is hard to watch.  it just looks painful.  it's like they're all saying 'look at me.  i can injure myself and come back.'  now, perhaps with piano this is true also.

Have you ever heard of the word "paragraph"?

Thal

[mycrabface]

Re-read what ah typed

cute bird.. as in your downn there thing.. no not that thing.. the one which is next to the two bunnies.. okay i should stop talking now...

[tds]

That's easy.   This is just an illusion that women bring about themselves.   

For some reason, which I sincerely wish I knew the answer to, women seem to consistently fall for these kinds of jerks and are quite persistent about avoiding the decent men.

Actually I do have a theory as to why this is so.  The lying jerks seem to have no problem at all running around asking women out one right after the other.  They also have absolutely no problem at all telling women anything they think the woman wants to hear.   So women get hit on by these types of guys quite often.  There's always another jerk in line if the previous one failed so women have a seemingly endless supply of jerks to choose from.

These kinds of insincere men also have nothing to lose if they are rejected by a woman because they simply move onto the next one.  So since there having nothing to offer they have nothing to lose and they appear to be brimming over with confidence.

Sincere men are less bold.  They don't just run around hitting on every woman they see.  Instead they are very reserved and wait until they find a woman they are truly interested in.  Then they get nervous, partly because they have a lot offer the woman and therefore a lot to lose if they are rejected.   On top of that, they don't have a lot of experience asking women out because of their high selectivity, so they appear less confident and sometimes downright awkward thus greatly increasing their chances of rejection for a first date.  If  there is no first date things most certainly aren't going to improve on the second date that never materializes.

If you think I'm joking, I'm not.  I'm 57 years old and I've never been married.  You won't find a man who's more honest than I am, the best you could hope to do is find one who's just as honest.  Yet, I have always found it very difficult to attract the attention of women that I've been interested in.  They seemed to be much more absorbed with those more exciting liar who will just tell them anything no matter how far-fetched.

I can't compete with dishonest men.  It's as simple as that.  All I have to offer a woman is the truth, but that was never good enough.  Women don't seem to be interested in truth, they're much more interested in excitement, romance, and fun.  Men who lie seem to be brimming with excitement, romance, and fun.  So how can I compete with that?  I can't bring myself to act pretentiously to exude these thing artificially.  It takes time to get to know me.  But women aren't interested in taking that time.  They want to be impressed BEFORE the first date, not afterward.

So  it's just an illusion that most men lie.  What is really true is that women are more attracted to men who lie.  Not that women want the men to be lying, it's just that the liars appear more attractive and exciting.   After all, if a man is allow to lie and make up stories what's to stop him from appearing attractive?  And don't forget the confidence things.  Men who have nothing sincere to offer have nothing sincere to lose!   So they appear to be brimming over with confidence which women LOVE!

O.k.  Thanks for the opportunity to get that off my chest.  I have NEVER lied to a woman in my life.  Except maybe when I tell them that a dress doesn't make them look fat.  Although, in truth, it's not the dress that's making them look fat anyway. They just are fat.  So I'm not really a lying anyway.

well done! you can be a succesful writer on and around the subject matter. the several paragraphs you wrote above should make the writer of "men from mars, women from venus" aware of what he had overlooked. best regards, tds

ps. then again, we have ladies with strong, conscientious personality, who are not easily swayed by little flirtatious talks, like for instance our lady mayla. but then again, she is one in a lumpy bunch

[tds]

I can see little point in pretending to be otherwise than how I am in my interactions with either men or women. Strategies either way are a complete waste of energy and thought. Granted, there are occasions in the workplace and in public when one should be very careful of expressing an honest opinion; this is true but still regrettable. Neither would I divulge masses of personal detail to strangers I had just met; that would be unwise. However, home for me is a transactional sanctuary where all cards are on the table at all times. After all the nonsense I encounter in the outside world, returning home to a constant atmosphere of strategy would be unbearable.

I cannot remember being other than a WYSIWYG (What you see is what you get) type of person; I couldn't be bothered trying to be otherwise. What on earth is the point of that ?

ted is a comsummate soul with noble, solid personality. thanks for your posts, and keep them coming. warmest, tds

[leucippus]

~~~

~ Women Lust for Confidence ~

~~~

It's true that women lust for confidence
They fall for the men who exude this delusion

Why choose a man who admits to his failures?
Why choose a man who confesses his flaws?
Why choose a man who has honesty to offer,
when a liar's pretentiousness draws?

Why choose a man who admits he's not sure,
when a liar proclaims that he's certain?
Why choose a man who admits he knows not,
when a liar will pretend that he knows?
Why choose a man who fears exposing his love,
when a liar has no love to fear exposing?
Why choose a man who takes time to get to know you,
when a liar spends his time on knowing who to get?

"I want a man who knows what he wants!",
the women all proclaim

But do they ever stop to ponder
whether what he wants
and what they want
are anywhere near the same?

Women lust for confidence
they crave a man with poise
it doesn't seem to matter much
if it's real, or empty noise

Men who value honesty
are often left out in the cold
for honestly isn't what women see
they see only the men who are bold

The motive for boldness eludes them
because women never use reason
they fall for these men, again and again
and discover the truth when it's treason

~~~

(Leucippus 10/7/06)

[pianistimo]

why would a grown woman lust for confidence?  if a woman only figures out 1/2 her life, she's still got it made.  now, the men part - i really wouldn't know.  the way you put it - it would make me think someone pulled the wool over my eyes.  but, if you do it nicely - it really doesn't matter in the long run.  so what if you married someone who doesn't know everything.  i didn't think he did at the beginning. i was just smiling from listening to his voice.  it didn't really matter what he said.  of course, a few things did.  but, what he did mattered more.  he is loving and kind and generous and forgiving and everything that is most important to me.  even if i thought he had a bit of an ego -so what? every man that i know does.  he doesn't have to prove it to me, though.  because he knows that i've seen him hither and yon doing things and i know what he's about.  he's my 'pampered chef.'  and, well, a sex machine.  women really don't care if a guy has unmet ego needs.  we sometimes without meaning kick them down and buildthem up again.  but, so do guys to women.  just when you think everything's cool - something happens.  in any, all, and most relationships.  that's when you see who's going to be diplomatic. 

[leucippus]

It's just a poem Susan.  Not meant to be taken too seriously.  And who said it was referring to "grown women" anyway? 

[thalbergmad]

There was a little girl
Who had a little curl
Right in the middle of her forehead

When she was good
She was very very good
But when she was bad
She was marvellous

Copyright - Thalpoems  2006

[pianistimo]

ok.  i'm rereading both of your poems with a more open mind.  not so literally.  so, for instance, the little girl with a curl wouldn't have to be anything less than 18 and the poem leucippus wrote wouldn't have to be anything more than 18.

i keep asking.  what's the boiler for?  any direct responses. 

[leucippus]

i keep asking.  what's the boiler for?  any direct responses. 

The boiler is for winter heat.  It's an outdoor woodstove that holds huge logs and will stay burning for several days.  The entire firebox is enclosed within a waterjacket.  The water heats up and gets pumped into the house for heat via radiators.

This is so much better than the old indoor woodstove I was using before.  It was dirty, both with the wood that had to be brought into the house, and with the soot and smoke it make inside the house.  And it also required choping the wood up into very small pieces.  Plus it needed attention ever 4 to 6 hours.  I also could only burn hardwood in it.

This outdoor woodstove will accept whole logs up to 4 feet long.  No need to split them.  No more chopping wood! Yeah!  Plus I can burn softwood like pine or anything that will burn in it.  It's going to be great!  It's almost built, I just need to finish up a few more welds and then start hooking up all the plumbing.

[pianistimo]

that is soooo  cool!  i'm going to tell my brother about this.  where do you buy them - to put together?

my bro lives in alaska - right next to my parents.  but, they typically deal with a lot of bills and things (winter heating bills).  my bro built all his furniture in arizona.  i came over to visit and i thought it all came with the cabin.  he said, oh, no - i built it all.

the thing is - he's really tired right now from moose hunting.  they got the moose - but that's only the first half.  then you have to butcher it.  that can take days.  at least they have a freezer full of meat - but they are really tired right now.

they bought a modular home for alaska.  it came in two or three pieces and they framed it together.  but, once a home is put together - is it too late to radiate this water from wood-burning stove?  he has two sons - so the chopped wood is no problem.  plus they live back in the woods so there's a lot of supply.  dead wood in particular.  can you burn dead wood as long as it's not too old?

[leucippus]

that is soooo  cool!  i'm going to tell my brother about this.  where do you buy them - to put together?

I designed mine myself, I bought the metal plates and had them pre-cut to size, and I'm welding it up myself.  I couldn't find one with a firebox as large as I wanted.  At least not for a reasonable price.

I don't know of any place that sells them as kits, but they are sold as completed units.  They're pretty expensive though.  One the size I'm building would cost close to $10,000.   The metal to build it cost me about $1,200.  But mines pretty large.  They make smaller ones completed for as little as $5000 or even less possibly.  If your brother welds, tell him they are simlple to build. It's basically just a box inside a box.  But it all has to be welded up watertight. 

Then he needs all the plumbing, a hot water pump and radiators for heat exchangers.   If you buy actual heat exchangers from a plumbing store tehy will cost about $400 each!  Instead, I want to an auto parts store and bought 5 car radiators for $100 each.  That's a huge savings since 5 or the other ones would have cost me $2,000.  I'm cheap.

[pianistimo]

wow.  you should design these things and sell them.   who needs to know about the car radiatiors!  very creative!  now, does the hot water go under the floor or does hot air actually come out the radiators and through the home's existing air ducts? 

can you add this after a home is already put together?

[pianistimo]

is this how people typically used to heat their homes in pa (besides wood burning fireplaces?)  it's so neat to see all the stuff in antique stores.  you know, twirling apple paring machines.  hand wheat grinders.  a lot of people here still hang laundry out to dry. 

i suppose if we got creative - we'd siphon water from the creek behind our home to water the lawn.  but, my husband says that gravity is better and that we should collect rain water in a cistern and let it follow from the house downwards instead of from the creek upwards.

[mycrabface]

Oh yes, and why, when men want to impress women, they go screw the whole act up by bragging non-stop about themselves? A bit annoying, really.

[henrah]

Maybe because they cannot impress the woman by showing them at that particular time, so they resort to explaining every detail of their talent and thus take up the entire conversation.


I used to envy the men who had women falling for their every move, but now no such envy exists. It has been replaced with pity for them as they flut from girl to girl; and I wonder if they will ever find true love, and - if they do find it - if they can believe in it enough to stay faithful, and that they don't delude themselves to thinking that love is sex.

[opus10no2]

Men treat women differently because they have breasts and a vagina.

I talk to guys and girls, and on average, actually, I find guys more interesting and easier to get on with.
But I still desire to talk to more girls....why?  Because I have a penis and it wants to be in YOUR vagina!

[henrah]

So your main motif to talk to girls is to get some?

[opus10no2]

No, just analyzing my own desires.

I am more interested, by instinct, to talk to girls, and why would this be..

I find the difference between platonic friendship and 'romantic relationship' to be interesting, because the only main difference I see is physical intimacy.

Physical intimacy is along the same lines as sex, and therefore I'd make a big bold statement and say that the primary purpose of both males and females, in life, is to have sex.

Females have to be more discerning and perceptive, because they are the 'mothers' and have to look for someone to be a suitable long term partner and father.

Males are more interested in sex alone, and desire to be with more women because of the natural desire to spread their seed.

[henrah]

Ah true, primal instinct to populate. That's why it feels so good. We are being rewarded for 'spreading our seed' as you put it so well. You hit the

Physical intimacy isn't purely along the same lines as sex. It includes any physical contact that a platonic relationship won't necessarily contain.

[opus10no2]

True, but the illusion of romantic relationships being anything more than a deep platonic friendship is nonesense...it just feels like more because of the physical element.
In actual fact, most romantic relationships aren't that deep at all.

[steve jones]

Does anyone know why most men are so fond of lying to women? Even though the two are close friends?

Most men are scared. Scared that if they tell the truth, they wont measure up. Thats my take anyway.

I think that if a man were 110% at peace with himself, then he would have no need or desire to lie to the significant woman in his life.

SJ

[henrah]

True, but the illusion of romantic relationships being anything more than a deep platonic friendship is nonesense...it just feels like more because of the physical element.

But a deep platonic relationship can exist without 'romantic' intimacy. Therefore there needs to be a definition between having a deep platonic relationship with and without 'romantic' intimacy. There's always been a difference between the love for a friend and the love for a significant other.

[opus10no2]

Can you define it though?

Really, I see the only difference being physical - sex and physical intimacy.

[pianistimo]

maybe it depends on how long you are with the same person.  for instance - people who are married 50-60 years would probably say something different than a couple who were together for a year or less.  or, who remarried several times. 

to me, intimacy is done by only sharing your heart with one person.  the more you focus into this one person - the more love you find.  solomon found that out when he finally found the love of his life - but she didn't feel the same for him - and was pining for the 'shepherd boy.'  she didn't care a whit about his money, his wit, his talent.  she was interested in a long term relationship where she wouldn't get dumped like yesterday's trash. 

i think younger people tend to think in the here and now.  but, i'm not judging because i was once young too.  it's a fast paced way of thinking and you don't totally give your heart.  it's very risky when you do.  i think it's good to take risks.  as you get older - you just say 'what the heck, i think i'll do myself in today.  and you go and get married.'

ps  this is a romaticized female version of what love is.  perhaps it is the wish of all men to have three wives and many girlfriends.  but, in the end a little sacrifice gives you better quality at home - i think.  if you put every ounce of energy into one person (calling them during the day - always thinking of them) then you don't have energy to waste on being three different people for each person.  look at hugh hefner.  don't you think he goes to bed sometimes thinking - 'what is her name?  what is her name?  i know it.  it's on the tip of my tongue.'  and what if he accidentally said the wrong name in the midst of it all.  do you think the girl would stay with him?

[rc]

Do you see the lifestyle Hef offers?  I think they'd let it slide if he forgot, hahah.

While animal nature is inclined to spread the seed, the perspective of genetic survival provides a good arguement for monogamy as well.  The offspring of a monogamous relationship will be better provided for, and benefit from a more stable upbringing than the comparative gamble of spreading the seed far and wide.  For the extremely wealthy, a harem is a viable option...  For most it's not giving the 'seed' as good a chance.

For relationships our modern culture encourages an attitude of keeping your options open.  On one hand I think it's not a bad idea to be somewhat picky, on the other that same attitude is an obstacle to taking the next steps in a relationship.

Leonard Cohen once used the metaphor of a bunch of rocks in a bag to describe living at a monastery - all polishing each other.  I think that's a good metaphor for relationships, each becoming more polished by being together.  Sometimes I see people whose relationships are more like rocks battering each other to pieces.